Charismatic Roman Catholicism

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Deacon_Ed_B said:
OK people, here goes. I will try to answer your questions, objections, etc. In all that I have said, nothing has changed in the deposit of faith. It meaning has not changed. Understanding things more fully, does not change doctrine.

Vatican II was not a relaxation or throwing out of anything. I cannot understand and do not condone what many priests did, by “doing their own thing” and claiming it was VII, because it was not. This is where much confusion came into the Church. I know of one case where a priest baptized his own child at a mass, with the full approval of the congregation. The next pastor, did not encourage devotions, such as rosary, adoration, confession, saying that these are not necessary any more. Thank God these have since been removed. This Church now has a new pastor, who is Catholic to the Core in every good way you can imagine. I have been helping him over the past several years in any way I can. When he got there, there were three masses only on the week end, with hardly anyone at any of them. Now there are not only daily mass, but 5 masses on weekends with standing room only. Eucharistic adoration is now ongoing and growing in leaps and bounds. These changes were brought about not by going in and condemning all that were involved, but by showing the true way with loving care, encouragement and example.

One of you asked if Luther was right. He was right on one score, that there were abuses in the Church. . We can thank the Holy Spirit that no doctrine was involved. Understand this, that at the time of Luther, the average priest had what we would call a 6th grade education today. That has now drastically changed to where now priests have not only high school but 8 years or more of college as their educational base. I will admit, not all use it, but the vast majority do. Don’t forget Luther came at the time of the selling of indulgences (which was wrong) and the pope, Alexander VI, was known for not being what we would today expect a pope to be. This is part of the why of the separation.

Now, for those born into families of the separation, there is no sin. Think of how they have been raised and taught. In some cases, out and out hatred of all that is Catholic was pounded into them , through no fault of their own. I do not condemn them, I entrust them to God’s infinite Divine Mercy. Only he can read their souls.
I have been in situations with people like these, that when their is Catholic speaking, they cover their ears and run, because that is what has been ingrained into them to do to protect their souls. I know some protestants even today that have been taught and strongly believe that if they step into a Catholic Church, they are going to hell. This kind of inculcation is most difficult to overcome, not from the perspective of the individual, but from the perspective of their individual communities, and many do live in close knit communities. These people need prayers, love example and loving mercy, not condemnation. Baptismal grace can lead them to the true Church. I have seen this done where some come up and tell a priest their circumstances and fear of going further, yet feel drawn. This is the Holy Spirit working in them. It is like one wandering out of the wilderness.

To the degree that they reject truth, when they are capable of understanding it, and it is presented correctly, but walk away, do not condemn. Know that the seed has been planted and let the Holy Spirit take over. Each individual will react differently, but in his own time under the Guidance of the Spirit. They may be seeking, feel drawn, bur are not there yet. If they die, these are looked at with love by the Spirit for truly seeking and will be judged accordingly, with infinite mercy and justice.

I would encourage one thing for all of you. Read the CCC, paragraphs 811 through 870 When you do so, really reflect on it. This is the section that deals with the marks of the Church, i.e., One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Read to understand, not to refute, that will not help you. Take this all in light of God’s Infinite Love and Infinite Divine Mercy and look at it like you would apply it with love, not chastisement or condemnation. This way you will grow.
Deacon Ed B
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Amen, Brother. Perfect!
 
deborahssong said:
…If you get an opportunity check out… st-thomasparish.org, that is in Bardstown and my ancestors help to build that and others as well. Old and simple but oh so deep in spiritual roots.
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And that - especially Bishop Flaget’s log house on the premises - reminds me of another nearby TLM, this one in Cahokia, IL. Holy Family Parish, though with a new church built next door, has maintained the old log-cabin church, which is where the Latin Mass is offered once a week (and I think on Holy Days as well). **Good pictures **here.

DustinsDad
 
DustinsDad said:
No, it is the Institute of Christ the King Soverign Priest- Keep them all in your prayers!
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DustinsDad:
Don’t look too bad from the outside.
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Well, the inside is OK, it just can’t compare to your church. Also the Wizard of OZ lights just throw you off. It really is GREAT compared to soooooooooo many other churches in Vegas. St. Joseph Husband of Mary church in Vegas is BEAUTIFUL (as far a modern churches go) and if you can find pictures of that the mosaics are beautiful.
DustinsDad said:
Is this the one you are talking about? - Our Lady of Victory - I can’t tell who is running this parish - I just googled “Latin Mass in Las Vegas” and it popped up.
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No, that is an independent church, they are not in union with Rome. St. Bridget’s has the only “Latin” mass in Vegas. The priest is slowly teaching the Latin to the people, so we still are saying parts in English, but at Easter we are going to start singing the Credo, so we are excited! I went to the TLM when I was little, and it is amazing how much I remember. I mean I have not been to a TLM in about 12 years!
images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lasvegas-diocese.org/images/altar.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.lasvegas-diocese.org/&h=341&w=362&sz=4&hl=en&start=4&sig2=dyTUNx0raR7rXVs9I7VEoA&um=1&tbnid=YiWv7R5WfmSs-M:&tbnh=114&tbnw=121&ei=TcnBR8rbJ6qspwTdsvX0DQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3DLas%2BVegas%2Bcatholic%2Bchurches%26gbv%3D2%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG
DustinsDad said:
Indeed. I was able to visit the Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament once in person - awesome.
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My family was very blessed, we were the last group to take a tour of the convent before it was closed up, if you think the Church is beautiful, you should have seen the convent. The kitchen is HUGE and top of the line. All the tables are so heavy, my dad and godfather could not even lift a corner together. All the floors have the same tile as the tile in the church, the doors are solid wood, there is a beautiful courtyard. There is a whole doctors office, with dentist chair and surgeon table and tools, so that the nuns don’t need to leave, the doctor comes to them. There was a huge dining room. It was amazing! We were so blessed. And only 5 families donated the entire amount to build the whole convent and church!

Got to go. I will write more on Monday.
Yours Through Our Lady,
Margarite
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Margarite,

Maybe you could go to the Italo-Greek Byzantine parish in Vegas; I think it’s called Our Lady of Wisdom. You’re sure to find beautiful liturgy there to tide you over until the TLM expands in Las Vegas.
 
Here’s some video from the Oratory I attend…

Corpus Christi Procession (2007 - I’m in this one, but I’m not saying who!)
Procession of the Blessed Sacrament to the Altar of Repose (from Holy Thursday 2007)
(All Souls Day Requiem Mass 2007)
**All Souls Requiem Mass, Part I **Prayers at the Foot of the Altar through Collect
All Souls Requiem Mass, Part II Epistle through Gradual/Tract

All Souls Requiem Mass, Part IIIGospel through beginning of the offetory (homily not recorded)
All Souls Requiem Mass, Part IV Offetory through Consecration
All Souls Requiem Mass, Part V Hosanna and Agnus Dei. (Communion not recorded). http://s.ytimg.com/yt/img/pixel-vfl73.gif
All Souls Requiem Mass, Part VISprinkling of the catafalque
All Souls Requiem Mass, Part VIIRecessional
 
Alexios,
Thanks, but no thanks. The priest for that parish is the most irreverent priest I have met. He says a Sunday mass in 30-40 min depending on the music. Besides since my father wrote him a few letters concerning different issues, he cannot stand my family.
I am not complaining. My family is very blessed to have found this semi-Latin mass, and we love it. But it is nothing compared with the splendor of Dustin’s Dad’s church and mass. WOW!

Have any of you heard of Hugh Hewitt?
He was a fallen away Catholic, but when he went to Italy and saw the Duomo (sp?) he came back to the faith. It was because of the architecture and because hundreds of years ago generations of men spent their entire lives building something to praise God. I don’t know the full story, but that is as much as I know. I look at these modern churches and they certainly would never convert a person, they may cause people to fall away, but they would never cause anyone to come home. Maybe I am wrong though. God does move in mysterious ways.
Do you all like the sent of incense? What do you think of the electric candles they now have in churches? Deborah, have you ever been to a TLM?
The priest at our semi-Latin parish (St. Bridget’s) told us the other day, that he thought that the TLM did need revamping. There are 84 signs of the cross, and it is just a little silly he said, but the bishops allowed the revamping to go too far. What do you all think of patens? What about communion in the hand? Where should the tabernacle be? Where should the choir be? Where should the priest preach?

Well, pray for me, I have an interview for college today. Pray that God’s will will be done. Thanks.

Yours Through Our Lady,
Margarite
 
Did everyone abandon this thread or just taking some time off?
 
I have been following it, and have observed it turning into a totally different thread.
Deacon Ed B
 
Irish_Saints said:
Did everyone abandon this thread or just taking some time off?
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I don’t know what else to say 🤷 .

I think what could have been alot of arguing actually turned out to end on a good and peaceful note. 👍

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad
 
HI there brothers and sisters in Christ!
Code: 
  Didn't actually abandon, just thought we had covered as much as possible....as it appears we all have different views on this subject........HOWEVER.........this has been such an awesome time for me.  I am still searching and actually studying quite seriously and learning a great deal more than  I could have ever imagined.  It is really hard to describe to you what I am feeling and the changes I am going thru spiritually!  Amazing actually is the word.......let me explain what has happened this past week....there was a distance between me and my stepdad.....he converted to catholic after being pentecostal for years.( my whole family is catholic, remember I have strong pioneer roots!) he did this back some twenty years ago or better.  It is so hard to share everything as there is so much however I stayed them last week as I do from time to time. we live in different ciites, not far but enough.
 I gotta tell you he and I got into this discussion. Before long I was shairng this researching and learning journey I have been on, about the catholic church. He began to cry and he had me crying!  He told me that he had been prayjng for me for years to come home to what I knew to eb the truth!  My mom said she has been praying for me for years, then he said you have a special gift Debbie and God means for you to use it in HIs church, the catholic church. Now he said I know you know Jesus and I dont doubt for one minute your relationship with God. I know you are smart when it comes to scripture .......then he paused and was still crying and told me he was so proud of me...and it was an awesome moment!  You would have to be there.......
  There have been several istances like this to take place, healing in relationships, revelation, it has TRULLY been awesome...all since I have been on this road folks!  I KNOW I am heading in the right direction.  Also I have talked with my daughter some about this...and she said. mom I know you well enough to know that you would never do anything to risk your relationship with God...I trust you and you and dad must do what God tells you to do. My children were both baptized catholic. My son is an evangelist and my daughter is a christian educator.......
 
Hello_Operator said:
I go to a Lutheran university in Chicago. Just the other day, two young women from a Roman Catholic university in Ohio (Franciscan University Steubenville) were visiting one of the students here and were invited into our Christian Life class by the professor to “lead” class, so to speak, to engage in dialouge with the students, and answer questions.

What was particularly interesting is that one of the girls introduced herself as a charismatic Roman Catholic (and also affirmed that her school was affiliated with this movement) and the other said she was part of the Charismatic Episcopal Church. They said that there are healing services at their school and people speak in tongues during mass.

Naturally, one of the questions that developed as I listened to this description of the university was whether or not this charismatic movement is sanctioned within the RCC. Do Traditional Roman Catholics affirm and recognize this movement or does it bring a lot of debate and controversy? Does the Pope have a stance?

Just as an aside, it was a really good class. I really enjoying having them there. They explained the seven sacraments, the rosary, Marian devotion, and their school in general. It was pretty friendly dialouge, even though she called our scholarly books and confessions “heretical” (tension behind the laughter, I assure you), it was a good time overall. I hope to spend some time with them while they’re still here.
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Strongly Dislike it.
 
had to pick up another post…have so much to share! Then my mentor from Journey Home sent me another book and I am almost done with this. I spoke with one of my sisters who is very active in her church actually it is the church my husband and I were in about 34 years ago. anyway she and I talked some…I heard from my friend with the charismatic renewal here, it has just been awesome!
Dustins dad…most defifnitely a move of the HOLY SPIRIT! right? I mean God is leading me to the neatest things and people and articles and everything is just fitting right in place at the place where I am in my heart of study! This church my sister attends is joing three other parishes and forming a new one( this was our parish when we got married)…guess what the name is???ST Peter the Apostle! I was so excited about this…I have atcually sent off for forms for registration…would you believe we are STILL listed as inactive members…I am considering RCIA only to refamiliarize myself with the church but quite honestly? I am doing so much studying…I am doing this to meet the priest and get to know some people…I have been asked to keep my heart OPEN to serving with the charismatic renewal here which is a definite!!! for me…Margarite did you get signed up for college?
Justin Martyr is supposed to be the best bible teacher in his day…did you know that? HIs writings are great…they all are…and Ignatius is really cool! He is the one who mentions catholic?..which means universal…I am learning the difference between oral tradition and Paul did mention that several times in his writings…Jews have oral and written traditions as well. Isnt that awesome???Please forgive my childlike enthusiasm…I am just filled right now with so much love for the catholic church…my dad reminded me that until I met my husband I believed I was to become a sister…to dedicate my life to serving God in this manner…he said that desire to serve has never been removed! anyway I am rambling I guess… just wanted you all to know? I am on my way…and posting with all of you was just another step forward in my journey HOME! Thank you so much sharing with me…giving me much to think and pray about …
I pray that we can keep posting…you guys are all really gooooooooooood!!! May the Lord Bless all of you…Maranatha!

Deborah
 
Deacon Ed B

I am so excited about the path God has me on…and I will most definitely be involved with the charismatic renewal here. I know what I know about allowing the Holy Spirit to impact my life thru His gifts…now I will say this…in scripture every time there is a move of the Holy Spirit lives are changed forever…and that is what we should see when one is filled with the Holy Spirit…I know that at a charismatic mass here a lady was healed when she received the Eucharist that evening…so God moves in different ways that is for sure…and yes Paul is teaching the Corinthians to be cautious about the gifts…BECAUSE they were abusing them…and we should see change when God moves in any maner, no matter what. My goodness…it appears that the Corinthinan church didnt get it for awhile as I have read letters from ST Clement to them, I believe Ignatius wrote to them…And Polycarp wrote to the church in Ephesus. So some just didnt get it did they? kind of like today? Yet…they were still taught how to walk this christian walk out! wheat and tares? absolutely…and yes I have learned that excommunictation IS the same thing as church discipline…that is biblical…Paul taught on this clearly…wow! I am amazed! anyway Deacon Ed B…though the Thread may have shifted some…we are still speaking of the great power of our merciful loving God, and I am so thankful to be a part! Thank you and lets post guys…

God Bless your coming and going!
Deborah
 
deborahssong said:
HI there brothers and sisters in Christ!

Didn’t actually abandon, just thought we had covered as much as possible…as it appears we all have different views on this subject…HOWEVER…this has been such an awesome time for me. I am still searching and actually studying quite seriously and learning a great deal more than I could have ever imagined. It is really hard to describe to you what I am feeling and the changes I am going thru spiritually! Amazing actually is the word…let me explain what has happened this past week…there was a distance between me and my stepdad…he converted to catholic after being pentecostal for years.( my whole family is catholic, remember I have strong pioneer roots!) he did this back some twenty years ago or better. It is so hard to share everything as there is so much however I stayed them last week as I do from time to time. we live in different ciites, not far but enough.
I gotta tell you he and I got into this discussion. Before long I was shairng this researching and learning journey I have been on, about the catholic church. He began to cry and he had me crying! He told me that he had been prayjng for me for years to come home to what I knew to eb the truth! My mom said she has been praying for me for years, then he said you have a special gift Debbie and God means for you to use it in HIs church, the catholic church. Now he said I know you know Jesus and I dont doubt for one minute your relationship with God. I know you are smart when it comes to scripture …then he paused and was still crying and told me he was so proud of me…and it was an awesome moment! You would have to be there…
There have been several istances like this to take place, healing in relationships, revelation, it has TRULLY been awesome…all since I have been on this road folks! I KNOW I am heading in the right direction. Also I have talked with my daughter some about this…and she said. mom I know you well enough to know that you would never do anything to risk your relationship with God…I trust you and you and dad must do what God tells you to do. My children were both baptized catholic. My son is an evangelist and my daughter is a christian educator…
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The Lord is awesome - and this is a great example of miracles in progress. You are coming home, and something tells me you won’t be coming alone…at least not when it’s all said and done. Keep praying and listening to the Lord. The Holy Spirit - He’s a working!

My prayers are with you as always - and Peace in Christ!

DustinsDad
 
Dustins dad…thank you! For your encouragment. I am so excited right now…oh I have some moments that I ask myself am I doing the right thing? and then I come across something that just sparks my interest all over again. I am now reading the book “One Minute Apologist” answers many things that protestants claim…wow! Lots of false hood about the church…the biggest thing for me as to coming as far as I have? origin of the church…there had to be a beginning and it wasnt the reformation first! It has been amazing…
My parents act like I am brand new in my walk…and lots of emotions going on here…just goes along with the territory. Thats ok…I am staying the course…to see where I end up serving God! Thanks again and I receive your words about not being alone here in the end…May the Lord bless you…

Deborah
 
deborahssong said:
Dustins dad…thank you! For your encouragment. I am so excited right now…oh I have some moments that I ask myself am I doing the right thing? and then I come across something that just sparks my interest all over again. I am now reading the book “One Minute Apologist” answers many things that protestants claim…wow! Lots of false hood about the church…the biggest thing for me as to coming as far as I have? origin of the church…there had to be a beginning and it wasnt the reformation first! It has been amazing…
My parents act like I am brand new in my walk…and lots of emotions going on here…just goes along with the territory. Thats ok…I am staying the course…to see where I end up serving God! Thanks again and I receive your words about not being alone here in the end…May the Lord bless you…

Deborah
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Man, Deborah, that’s awesome!! Sheesh, you got me welling up here just reading! 🙂 You surely are an answer to prayer, there’s no doubt. And I’ve always thought that enthusiasm focused by the lens of truth is an unbeatable combination, and you have enthusiasm in spades! This is indeed wonderful… the very word itself means to have God inside (en-, in and theos, God.) I am so happy for you, honestly!

Keep up your studies, and by all means, please keep us posted on your journey! I’m sure I’m not alone when I say we’re all very excited about your latest experiences with the Holy, Mighty and Immortal God!

Grace and peace to you, sister in Christ! :crossrc:
 
Deborahssong,
You continue to be in my prayers for your journey.
Deacon Ed B
 
Irish Saints and Deacon Ed B…Thanks so much and God Bless you both! This is an awesome time…a deep time of spirituality for sure! My husband and daughter are very supportive. My son doesnt really know yet what is happening. I have to be careful with him. He is a much more passionate person when it comes to spirituality and truth. Remember he is an evangelist! and he is on fire for the Lord…doesnt ever condemn catholicism but I want to be sure the time is right to talk with him…and bottom line is this…I am obeying the pull of my heart…that is the MOST important aspect of this! The Holy Spirit is leading me and I am following! Thank you for your prayers, as I am in much need of those at this time! and I will keep you posted…as all of this is a move of the Holy Spirit…the same POWER or dunamis or dynamite or energy…of God that has changed lives in drastic ways. in scripture and present day…I watched a mass on the air the other morning and when the priest was praying I lifted my hands and began to pray in my prayer language! God is so awesome…I was so moved…and that is GOD!!!
anyway to God be the glory great things He has done!!! and is doing!! Praise His most Holy name!

Deborah
 
Hello all,

I am sorry that I have come in so late on this topic. I read through half of the posts and jumped to the end. I wanted to post this link about St Thomas Aquinas. I thought some or all might find it interesting, especially if you haven’t read it yet.

ccr.org.uk/archive/gn0711/g09.htm
 
DeborahSong,
You make me feel like jumping for joy. Now I can sort of understand why Christ said that he would leave the 99 and go after the 1 lost sheep and there would be more rejoicing over the 1 lost who came home than all the 99 who just stayed home. Forgive the parapharsing.

Sometimes I used to think that this was silly, because what if the 99 got lost, but now I know why there is such rejoicing over the lost returning. And if one of the 99 gets lost, well we will go out and try to find it and there will be more rejoycing.

About your son, be careful, you are still fragile and uncertain of the Church, but he is certain and so he could easily sway you. If you do discuss with non-Catholics, or weak Catholics, including your son, don’t forget to ask for help from Our Lady, St. Monica, St. Deborah, and the Holy Ghost.

Yours Through Our Lady,
Margarite

PS: I find out this week about college, I am nervous, but God’s will be done.:eek: :signofcross:
 
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