Charismatic Roman Catholicism

[po18guy]

Michael GO!! You will never regret it.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

Hear! Hear! After my baptism in the Holy Spirit, there has been no looking back. Before, no one even knew I was Christian. After the gifts of the Holy Spirit were released, my faith life took off. People now ask if I’m some sort of minister. When they find out I’m Catholic, they’re shocked! All thanks and praise be to the Holy Spirit. Amen! Alleluia!

 

[Freshman88]

There is an older story of a similar priest who fought the abusive authority of the church. Many believed that the manner in which he celebrated was the best, far superior to that which the inflexible church demanded. This priest became so popular that his following eventually moved from underground to mainstream. He was so loved that his church now has 33,000 denominations. His name? Martin Luther.

Martin Luther was a heretic and was wrong.

Traditionalists by virtue of being one who adheres to tradition (unless tradition is wrong), can not be a heretic. Also in my example, my priest was right whereas Martin Luther was wrong.

It’s a shamful that you compare my pastor (a Roman Catholic Priest in perfect communion) to Martin Luther (a heretic and schimastic)

 

[Freshman88]

Tell me, is one of the gifts of the Holy spirit the ability to be judgmental?

how about remaining obedient, praying for and patiently teaching your superiors?

We forget the first step to follow Christ: “Deny yourself”
We often forget the second step as well, lacking patience.

Christ’s peace.

My pastor was obedient to his conscience, which more importantly happened to be right. I pity anyone who simply gives into an unjust law and submits blindly to authority.Where would we be if St. Athanasius had not made his stand? was he wrong for not submitting to Constantinople? He denied the easy way out, he denied giving into an unjust law. His stand made sure that traditionalists were taken care of, and he made a stand for truth.

He was essentially kicked out onto the street when he lost his parish - he endured quite a bit in order to stand up for what he knew was right.

 

[po18guy]

Martin Luther was a heretic and was wrong.

Traditionalists by virtue of being one who adheres to tradition (unless tradition is wrong), can not be a heretic. Also in my example, my priest was right whereas Martin Luther was wrong.

It’s a shamful that you compare my pastor (a Roman Catholic Priest in perfect communion) to Martin Luther (a heretic and schimastic)

Only he answers for his disobedience, not I. I merely pointed it out. Simple disobedience is what lead Luther’s massive ego to heresy. I would imagine that your pastor has no such problem.

 

[po18guy]

Tell me, is one of the gifts of the Holy spirit the ability to be judgmental?

My pastor was obedient to his conscience, which more importantly happened to be right. I pity anyone who simply gives into an unjust law and submits blindly to authority.

Like Christ did to Pilate?

 

[palmas85]

Spirits must be tested. Some in the charismatic renewal, as in all groups, are lead astray. That must be discerned and avoided at all costs. The Holy Spirit guides us, not the opposite. The opposite comes from the evil one.

Christ’s peace.

And just how do you do that? How do you discern and avoid? Given the extreme emotionalism that is brought forth in so many of these events, how do you tell if the spirits are good bad or even there at all and not merely an after effect of the endorphin rush that so many experience at these gatherings?

If you really believe that the Evil One cannot guide you into thinking you are doing the right thing, and believing it is the right thing, then you have a serious problem. The Evil one as you call him being an angel, can perfectly imitate one, and cause wonderful things to happen when it suits his purpose. It is said that he is at his most dangerous when he comes clothed as an angel of light, because he deceives many in that way. Leading large numbers of Catholics into a quasi Catholicism in which feelings substitute for reason and miracles become commonplace, miraculous healings on demand, prophecies every week would certainly be just the sort of thing that he would do. Think of it, after a while, because everyone has their own personal language and rapport with God what would you need the Church for? After all, you are special, filed with the Spirit and can communicate with God in a way that others cannot. As a matter of fact, you are probably true Christians where the others are lacking. They don’t have your gifts. They must not be true Catholics.

See where it can go very very easily? Tell you what, look around your charismatic group. Examine the people there. And if you can come back here and say HONESTLY that there are not those there who believe exactly as I said here, then maybe I’ll look deeper into the whole thing. As it is, I know far too many charismatics, including some family members, who feel that they have been singled out because of their piety and are the vanguard of a new wave sweeping through Christianity and that the rest of us just don’t get it. They are touched, blessed and pure of spirit because they can bring forth the spirit whenever it suits them.

Hey, I’m not saying the movement is 100%wrong, but I will guarantee you there are those in the movement who are **not **being directed by the Holy Spirit. It may be only a few or in may be many, but they are there. I can assure you of that.
.

.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Hey, I’m not saying the movement is 100%wrong, but I will guarantee you there are those in the movement who are **not **being directed by the Holy Spirit. It may be only a few or in may be many, but they are there. I can assure you of that.
…

I think you just described the Catholic Church also. Know that the father of lies will try to deceive any and as many as he can wherever he finds an opportunity. Be well grounded in your faith, Eucharistic adoration, the Mass and sacraments. That will be your biggest help in making a proper discernment.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[po18guy]

And just how do you do that? How do you discern and avoid? Given the extreme emotionalism that is brought forth in so many of these events, how do you tell if the spirits are good bad or even there at all and not merely an after effect of the endorphin rush that so many experience at these gatherings?

If you really believe that the Evil One cannot guide you into thinking you are doing the right thing, and believing it is the right thing, then you have a serious problem. The Evil one as you call him being an angel, can perfectly imitate one, and cause wonderful things to happen when it suits his purpose. It is said that he is at his most dangerous when he comes clothed as an angel of light, because he deceives many in that way. Leading large numbers of Catholics into a quasi Catholicism in which feelings substitute for reason and miracles become commonplace, miraculous healings on demand, prophecies every week would certainly be just the sort of thing that he would do. Think of it, after a while, because everyone has their own personal language and rapport with God what would you need the Church for? After all, you are special, filed with the Spirit and can communicate with God in a way that others cannot. As a matter of fact, you are probably true Christians where the others are lacking. They don’t have your gifts. They must not be true Catholics.

See where it can go very very easily? Tell you what, look around your charismatic group. Examine the people there. And if you can come back here and say HONESTLY that there are not those there who believe exactly as I said here, then maybe I’ll look deeper into the whole thing. As it is, I know far too many charismatics, including some family members, who feel that they have been singled out because of their piety and are the vanguard of a new wave sweeping through Christianity and that the rest of us just don’t get it. They are touched, blessed and pure of spirit because they can bring forth the spirit whenever it suits them.

Hey, I’m not saying the movement is 100%wrong, but I will guarantee you there are those in the movement who are **not **being directed by the Holy Spirit. It may be only a few or in may be many, but they are there. I can assure you of that.

WOW!

First, you have me confused with some other member.

Second, what is the source of your strong dislike of those who seek empowerment by the Spirit?

As I said before, I am only tangentially involved with the charismatic movement. I don’t much care for some of what they do. Some insist that you must speak/pray in tongues. That is completely incorrect. The gifts are given by the Spirit, to you as well, as the Spirit wishes. I received a certain gift, but not others. Which have you received? Do you want to know? If not, why not? The Lord expects you to make use of them, since they are His gift.

Some of those in the movement can be elitist. I avoid them, as that is a product of the ego, and it was ego that caused the evil one to fall. Oh, and the “evil one as I call him”? I got that name from the bible. Jesus used it. Matthew 5:37 “Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.”

I wish some of the antagonists would take a breath and lighten up! I wish that everyone would pray for the release of the gifts we have been given by the Holy Spirit at our Confirmation. Remember?

The peace of Christ be with all of you.

 

[palmas85]

WOW!

First, you have me confused with some other member.

Second, what is the source of your strong dislike of those who seek empowerment by the Spirit?

As I said before, I am only tangentially involved with the charismatic movement. I don’t much care for some of what they do. Some insist that you must speak/pray in tongues. That is completely incorrect. The gifts are given by the Spirit, to you as well, as the Spirit wishes. I received a certain gift, but not others. Which have you received? Do you want to know? If not, why not? The Lord expects you to make use of them, since they are His gift.

Some of those in the movement can be elitist. I avoid them, as that is a product of the ego, and it was ego that caused the evil one to fall. Oh, and the “evil one as I call him”? I got that name from the bible. Jesus used it. Matthew 5:37 “Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.”

I wish some of the antagonists would take a breath and lighten up! **I wish that everyone would pray for the release of the gifts we have been given by the Holy Spirit at our Confirmation. Remember?
**
The peace of Christ be with all of you.

Again I ask, why do you believe that the gifts that we have been given have to be released. Thats what I don’t get. Explain to me why after I have been given a gift from God, I have to ask Him to release it from within. I know exactly what gifts I have been given. I didn’t have to ask for them. I didn’t have to join the CCR to have them released. They have always been there. But then again, I believe in the Catholic Church 110%. Maybe thats why it was easy for me. I didn’t have any doubts.

As for my antagonism, I’m a realist. I’m not living in some fantasy land. I see what people believe and how they act. I have seen the elitist attitudes that have sprung forth from the charismatic movement among others and quite frankly it sickens me. The holier than thou phrases that spew forth. The attitude that you yourself seem to have that whatever gifts you have are lying dormant waiting in vain as it were for the CCR to gallop in and free them.

Tell me, how did the Catholic Church get anything done for the first 1600 or 1700 years without the Charismatic movement? The gifts of the Holy Spirit seemed pretty abundant in those days. In fact, the Church managed pretty good without the movement. Outstanding actually. It only became an issue in the Church after one thing and one thing only.

Close association with protestants. Then, all of a sudden, the gifts were hidden Unseen. Why? Well of course, they needed to be awakened. You needed something from outside the Church to free them. You needed something from people who rejected the catholic Church to free them. You needed the protestant Charismatics to lead the way!!!:bigyikes:

And I don’t buy that for one second my friend. You will never convince me that the Holy Spirit would abandon the Holy Mother Church and bestow these miraculous gifts on those who spurn and deride Catholicism.

 

[po18guy]

Tell me, is one of the gifts of the Holy spirit the ability to be judgmental?

My pastor was obedient to his conscience, which more importantly happened to be right. I pity anyone who simply gives into an unjust law and submits blindly to authority.Where would we be if St. Athanasius had not made his stand? was he wrong for not submitting to Constantinople? He denied the easy way out, he denied giving into an unjust law. His stand made sure that traditionalists were taken care of, and he made a stand for truth.

He was essentially kicked out onto the street when he lost his parish - he endured quite a bit in order to stand up for what he knew was right.

He swore obedience when he was ordained. It seems to me that a well-formed conscience would tell him to obey, since that is what he swore.

Luke 10:16 “He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Jesus - obedient even unto death.

 

[Freshman88]

That’s right he swore obedience to the Church. Yet how is standing up for the truth an act of disobedience? Remember The diocese was clearly wrong and acting unjustly.

Jesus - obedient even unto death.

I love how your just dishing out spiritual advice and commenting on a priest - (the laity these days, eh?)

Anyway. That’s it exactly, obedience to Jesus. But what does that mean? Would you be more obedient to Jesus by following a wrongful law or by making a stand for the truth? I could have sworn Jesus was the Truth, not a bishop - that’s exactly the distinction that this priest made, and so he followed Jesus by following the truth.

If you want blindful obedience, you can have it.

 

[po18guy]

Again I ask, why do you believe that the gifts that we have been given have to be released. Thats what I don’t get. Explain to me why after I have been given a gift from God, I have to ask Him to release it from within. I know exactly what gifts I have been given. I didn’t have to ask for them. I didn’t have to join the CCR to have them released. They have always been there. But then again, I believe in the Catholic Church 110%. Maybe thats why it was easy for me. I didn’t have any doubts.

The gifts are received at confirmation, but can be locked inside a hardened heart, as mine was. We can resist the gifts, just as we can resist our vocations. I didn’t have to join anything. I was skeptical, but went to a “Life in the Spirit” seminar, lead by our parish priest. The Archbishop has blessed the activities and sent his auxiliary Bishop to participate. I trust them.

Which gifts do you have? I know which I have received and which I have been called to use. It is about everyone else, for the building up of the church, and does nothing for me except wear me out at times (and increase my faith and love of Christ).

As for my antagonism, I’m a realist. I’m not living in some fantasy land. I see what people believe and how they act. I have seen the elitist attitudes that have sprung forth from the charismatic movement among others and quite frankly it sickens me. The holier than thou phrases that spew forth. The attitude that you yourself seem to have that whatever gifts you have are lying dormant waiting in vain as it were for the CCR to gallop in and free them.

Well, my life is utter, gritty reality. Life or death situations. Daily physical danger. No fantasy here, either, OK? It is God that gave the gift and expects me to use it. I consider myself the least of all Christians, having caused much pain during my life, as well as having persecuted Christians. CCR is only one mechanism through which the gifts can be realized. It is far from the exclusive means. I have also seen everything that you describe associated with the CCR, but don’t let the presence of sinners ruin your faith life!

Tell me, how did the Catholic Church get anything done for the first 1600 or 1700 years without the Charismatic movement? The gifts of the Holy Spirit seemed pretty abundant in those days. In fact, the Church managed pretty good without the movement. Outstanding actually. It only became an issue in the Church after one thing and one thing only.

I am not arguing, but can make a case that lack of the Spirit in the church leadership lead to the reformation.

Close association with protestants. Then, all of a sudden, the gifts were hidden Unseen. Why? Well of course, they needed to be awakened. You needed something from outside the Church to free them. You needed something from people who rejected the catholic Church to free them. You needed the protestant Charismatics to lead the way!!!:bigyikes:

Honestly, I think you are reaching just a little here. We got nothing from the Protestants. They got everything from us. They simply used it better than we did. Remember that we have everything they do, and more. More Sacraments, more history, more devotions, an unbroken line of succession, and the Body of Christ, Who lives in our Church. Have no fear of Protestants. Strive to be that which they fear, a faith-filled, Spirit-filled Catholic.

And I don’t buy that for one second my friend. You will never convince me that the Holy Spirit would abandon the Holy Mother Church and bestow these miraculous gifts on those who spurn and deride Catholicism.

You misunderstand me. We are not getting anything from anyone else. We are re-emphasizing that which we always had. The Protestants have some of what we have, but I reiterate the fact that they got it from the Catholic Church.

Consider this: Peter walked on water. He healed the crippled. He cast out demons. He raised the dead! No one beside Christ has ever done this. This was all done through the power of the Holy Spirit. When was the last time anyone prominent in the Catholic church did this by the Spirit? That is what we need to re-emphasize. The Power of God in the Spirit. Watch the Protestants abandon their churches and come running to us when they see this happening. I pray for the day the Spirit is fully awakened in us and great signs and wonders are performed!

I see now where your concern is coming from. I detest conceit. I see conceit in the same places you do. Do not let it sidetrack you. You can be put at ease by speaking with a priest who is involved with the Charisms. Will you trust an orthodox priest?

Christ’s peace.

 

[po18guy]

That’s right he swore obedience to the Church. Yet how is standing up for the truth an act of disobedience? Remember The diocese was clearly wrong and acting unjustly.

I love how your just dishing out spiritual advice and commenting on a priest - (the laity these days, eh?)

Anyway. That’s it exactly, obedience to Jesus. But what does that mean? Would you be more obedient to Jesus by following a wrongful law or by making a stand for the truth? I could have sworn Jesus was the Truth, not a bishop - that’s exactly the distinction that this priest made, and so he followed Jesus by following the truth.

If you want blindful obedience, you can have it.

I’m just speechless.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Wow, I see much went on while I slept last night. I just got back from Eucharistic adoration. You were all in my prayers. From the anger that I see flying back and forth, I pray that those prayers work.

For those who are not Charismatic, no one is saying you have to be to be saved. No one is saying you are a second class Catholic if you are not one. No one is saying that if you do not manifest gifts of the Holy Spirit, that somehow that makes you less. No one, No one, No one.

If you are not Charismatic, don’t think that those of us who are, think that we are more Catholic than you. Nothing could be further from the truth. Arguing like this shows a total misunderstanding of what we, the Mystical Body, of which we are all parts, really is. The analogy of it being like our own bodies is so descriptive. Each body part has its own function. Each contributes to the health of the body. If a body part is missing is infected, the body suffers. No part is greater than the other. Each contributes to the overall health of the body.

We have Christ as our head. What greater part is there? NONE. Simply said, he and he alone is our head. We are the Mystical Body here on earth. Instead of arguing which body part is better, or worse, or sick, act like a healthy body and work in union with one another, praying for one another, helping one another.

If we truly think we are Catholic and Christian, recall the simple verse., “You will know they are Christian by their love.” Show it and live it. This bickering only hurts us, and gives a totally wrongful impression to those that may be using this forum to inquire or find out about our Catholic Church.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[DustinsDad]

At Eucharistic Adoration last night, I was reading “Uniformity with God’s Will” by St. Alphonsus de Liguori (can be read online here or ordered online here) - an excellent little book(let) that I recommend wholeheartedly.

Toward the end, these words struck me as something that might need to be discussed in this particular thread:It would be a serious defect to desire the gifts of supernatural prayer - specifically, ecstasies, visions and revelations. The masters of the spiritual life say that souls thus favored by God, should ask him to take them away so that they may love him out of pure faith - a way of greater security. Many have come to perfection without these supernatural gifts; the only virtues worth-while are those that draw the soul to holiness of life, namely, the virtue of uniformity with God’s holy will. If God does not wish to raise us to the heights of perfection and glory, let unite ourselves in all things to his holy will, asking him in his mercy, to grant us our soul’s salvation. If we act in this manner, the reward will not be slight which we shall receive from the hands of God who loves above all others, souls resigned to his holy will.

(St. Alphonsus de Liguoria, Uniformity with God’s Will, Chapter 6, last paragraph)
Something to seriously ponder, I think.

Comments are certainly welcome.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[antimon]

At Eucharistic Adoration last night, I was reading “Uniformity with God’s Will” by St. Alphonsus de Liguori (can be read online here or ordered online here) - an excellent little book(let) that I recommend wholeheartedly.

Toward the end, these words struck me as something that might need to be discussed in this particular thread:It would be a serious defect to desire the gifts of supernatural prayer - specifically, ecstasies, visions and revelations. The masters of the spiritual life say that souls thus favored by God, should ask him to take them away so that they may love him out of pure faith - a way of greater security. Many have come to perfection without these supernatural gifts; the only virtues worth-while are those that draw the soul to holiness of life, namely, the virtue of uniformity with God’s holy will. If God does not wish to raise us to the heights of perfection and glory, let unite ourselves in all things to his holy will, asking him in his mercy, to grant us our soul’s salvation. If we act in this manner, the reward will not be slight which we shall receive from the hands of God who loves above all others, souls resigned to his holy will.

(St. Alphonsus de Liguoria, Uniformity with God’s Will, Chapter 6, last paragraph)
Something to seriously ponder, I think.

Comments are certainly welcome.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

Another great saint wrote this:

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

It’s from the 1 Corinthians 14, and similar can be found on many other places. And notice that this is approved as inspired by the Holy Spirit . So I’d rather believe St. Paul.

These gifts are there for the good of the whole Church, so rejecting them is egoistic and bad.

 

[po18guy]

At Eucharistic Adoration last night, I was reading “Uniformity with God’s Will” by St. Alphonsus de Liguori (can be read online here or ordered online here) - an excellent little book(let) that I recommend wholeheartedly.

Toward the end, these words struck me as something that might need to be discussed in this particular thread:It would be a serious defect to desire the gifts of supernatural prayer - specifically, ecstasies, visions and revelations. The masters of the spiritual life say that souls thus favored by God, should ask him to take them away so that they may love him out of pure faith - a way of greater security. Many have come to perfection without these supernatural gifts; the only virtues worth-while are those that draw the soul to holiness of life, namely, the virtue of uniformity with God’s holy will. If God does not wish to raise us to the heights of perfection and glory, let unite ourselves in all things to his holy will, asking him in his mercy, to grant us our soul’s salvation. If we act in this manner, the reward will not be slight which we shall receive from the hands of God who loves above all others, souls resigned to his holy will.

(St. Alphonsus de Liguoria, Uniformity with God’s Will, Chapter 6, last paragraph)
Something to seriously ponder, I think.

Comments are certainly welcome.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

Those who seek visions and ecstasies do so for their own edification. If your faith is well grounded, you are aware of the Lord’s love and presence, and should need no such reward or proof. There is a higher purpose to most prayer than the self. One such purpose is to beg affliction that another be spared that trial in their life. Christ suffered to save us, and similar prayer will be answered, as it denies the self and takes up one’s cross. The more selfless and fervent the prayer, the more efficacious, I believe.

I asked for the flame of faith to be ignited within me. It was, but I am not standing amidst the flames, reveling in them. I departed and took the flame to others who are placed in my path on a daily basis. I was also called to intercessory prayer, and there you will find me. I sometimes view my renewal in the Spirit as similar to lighting a barbecue. Once the flame is ignited, you may move on to the purpose for which you are igniting the flame. I think it is misdirected to remain in the flame for the sake of personal joy. The flame of love for God which is lit must be shared with those who have lost all hope and are living in misery. This is a great purpose of the Gospel. Great faith without works is dead (James 2:24).

Matthew 11:5 The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.

If we can but preach the good news to the poor, we are accomplishing some of what the Lord calls us to do in His name. Amen.

 

[DustinsDad]

…It’s from the 1 Corinthians 14, and similar can be found on many other places. And notice that this is approved as inspired by the Holy Spirit . So I’d rather believe St. Paul.

I suspect St. Paul and St. Alphonsus are talking about two different things. Our first reaction should not be to pit two saints against each other. Obviously St. Alphonsus was well aware of 1 Corinthians 14, I doubt he discounted it.

Best to try to look up commentary on 1 Corinthians 14 from the Church fathers (or maybe even St. Alphonsus commented on this particular passage). I shall try to do so and post what I find.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[latinmass]

Please see post #32 and #44.

 

[DustinsDad]

Another great saint wrote this:

**

**Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. ****

It’s from the 1 Corinthians 14, and similar can be found on many other places. And notice that this is approved as inspired by the Holy Spirit . So I’d rather believe St. Paul.

From the Douay Rheims commentary on this passage, it seems St. Paul is using the term prophesy in the sense of to “declare or expound the mysteries of faith.” - not in the sense that we normally think of it, as in fortelling the future. It throws the passage into a new light, and does not conflict with the above words of St. Alphonsus.

In fact, I think St. Alphonsus is expounding on St. Paul’s words. For example, in 1 Corinthians 12, St. Paul writes:
1 Corinthians 12:28-31
And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles; then the graces of healing, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors? 30 Are all workers of miracles? Have all the grace of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

But be zealous for the better gifts. And I show unto you yet a more excellent way.
I think St. Alphonsus is expounding on this greater way - the total reliance and trust in the will of God even and especially in the absense of supernatural manifestations and even in the face of suffering and/or spiritual “dryness”. This, St. Alphonsus says, is most pleasing to God - the most excellent way indeed .

Seeking for supernatural manifestatioins can be dangerous - such can betray an actual lack of faith in God rather than that total trust that we are called to.

Again - just something to think about.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad