Charismatic Roman Catholicism

[Deacon_Ed_B]

What I am seeing here is some people judging the Charismatic Movement by some misled people who seem to be wandering in a fog. This is wrong. Would you judge the Catholic Church and its richness in faith and dogma and sacraments by Pope Alexander VI. I would certainly hope not. If you see these bad examples, it is the people, not the Charismatic movement itself. As one person put it, don’t draw your conclusions from looking at the pictures. Read the book. You will be enlightened.
Deacon Ed B

 

[ac23]

If you see these bad examples, it is the people, not the Charismatic movement itself.

I agree.

Ignorance + bad formation can be a doozy on those who don’t have access to competent, Orthodox leaders within the CCR.

 

[Margarite]

My post was just lost, so I hope I say what I meant to say.

From what I have read on this thread, ignoring all bias that I have against the Charismatic movement, it seems to me that the Charismatic movement is suffering from the same three things that the Church is suffering from:
Lack of leadership, lack of knowledge, and lack of desire for Truth.
Point 1: The leadership in the Church (the monsignor, bishop, archbishop, cardinal), basically anyone above a normal priest and below the pope, is lacking in leadership skills, or lacking the courage to use them. There are priests everywhere who preach herecy, there are abuses during the mass, there is so much wrong and only a very few are actually trying to do something about it. Some of the bishops are part of the problem, but then the cardinals over them should correct them, and if the cardials are wrong, well I guess it is up to the pope.
Point 2: So few people within the Church know what the Church teaches. Even priests don’t know the directives of the Church. Now when a priest doesn’t know, that is his own fault, it is his duty to learn and study, and it is also the bishop’s fault because he should be checking up on his priests to make sure that they know the directives of the Church. When a layman doesn’t know, it is still his fault, but it is also the fault of the priest who should teach from the pulpit. When children don’t know it is the fault of the parents and priest and teachers (if the child goes to a Catholic school) and the teachers should be checked by the priest.
So few people know what the Church teaches, but so few people are willing to learn because then they would be out of their comfort zone.
Point 3: The desire for knowledge of the Truth is the most important part of all of this. Without desire for knowledge few people will bother to learn, and without the desire for knowledge leadership is useless because without desire for leadership and knowledge people won’t follow. Desire to know, love and serve God in the best possible way is the most important thing for any person. If they have this desire, non-Catholics will eventually become Catholic and Catholics will become strong defenders of their faith. Everyone from the layman to the Pope must have this desire to know God’s truth, the only Truth, then will the Church be healed.
Point 1B: The same seems to be true of the Charismatic movement. There is no authority and no directives on how it all should be run so there is no leadership. Without this every meeting is different, and there is no assurance “goodness” in any meeting because there is nothing to judge it by, no leadership to say this or that is good or bad.
Point 2B: There is no knowledge. No one knows exactly what it is and there is no way to know. There is no tradition, there are no books, there are no teachings, there is only what people like and dislike and as we know feelings can often be misleading.
Point 3B: Because the Charismatic movement seems to fill people so completely, many charismatic people fail to desire more, to desire knowledge of the rest of their faith. They fail to learn about the mass, the Eucharist, they fail to move beyond the Charismatic meetings. I am not saying this is true of anyone on this thread, but I am saying that it is true of many Charismatic people that I have met. They don’t care about the rest “stuff” that the Catholic Church teaches, because they are comfortable in the Charismatic movement.

I hope I made sense. It is hard sometimes for me when I write a post and then it disappears and then I have to write it again. Sometimes I forget what I have said or not said so it does not make sense.
Sorry it was so long.

 

[Irish_Saints]

Just checking into this thread…any updates from anybody?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Point 2B: There is no knowledge. No one knows exactly what it is and there is no way to know. There is no tradition, there are no books, there are no teachings, there is only what people like and dislike and as we know feelings can often be misleading.
Point 3B: Because the Charismatic movement seems to fill people so completely, many charismatic people fail to desire more, to desire knowledge of the rest of their faith. They fail to learn about the mass, the Eucharist, they fail to move beyond the Charismatic meetings. I am not saying this is true of anyone on this thread, but I am saying that it is true of many Charismatic people that I have met. They don’t care about the rest “stuff” that the Catholic Church teaches, because they are comfortable in the Charismatic movement.

I disagree with this most strongly… Those I know in the Charismatic Movement, are centered in the Eucharist, Eucharistic adoration, the Mass and sacraments. Many attend mass daily and receive the Eucharist daily. They are most keenly attuned to the richness of the Catholic Church and all it holds. I do admit, that as with all Catholics, some know more than others. It seems you have made a judgment the entire movement based on the actions of a few misguided individuals. I would no more judge the Church by its sinners, than the Charismatic Movement by some who are misled and go astray. If this is your only impression of this movement, I would suggest you attend one of the regional conferences that are held throughout the Nation. The talks, are most enlightening about the Catholic Faith, and the devotion to and love of God is most inspiring and fulfilling in many ways. By what you said, I sense you have not attended any of these. Please look into them.
Deacon Ed B

 

[daveqdimal]

I disagree with this most strongly… Those I know in the Charismatic Movement, are centered in the Eucharist, Eucharistic adoration, the Mass and sacraments. Many attend mass daily and receive the Eucharist daily. They are most keenly attuned to the richness of the Catholic Church and all it holds. I do admit, that as with all Catholics, some know more than others. It seems you have made a judgment the entire movement based on the actions of a few misguided individuals. I would no more judge the Church by its sinners, than the Charismatic Movement by some who are misled and go astray. If this is your only impression of this movement, I would suggest you attend one of the regional conferences that are held throughout the Nation. The talks, are most enlightening about the Catholic Faith, and the devotion to and love of God is most inspiring and fulfilling in many ways. By what you said, I sense you have not attended any of these. Please look into them.
Deacon Ed B

 

[daveqdimal]

I could appreciate that there may be a few charismatic movements which seeks to learn more and practice catholic teachings. Nonetheless, as i have become familiar with these organizations, i would say in general they are becoming breeding grounds for fundamentalism and the so called reformed main line protestants, the evangelicals. Considering the origin of the movement this is not surprising. Of course the existence of these organizations provide for the need to belong and be part of a smaller lay organization specially needed by a big organization like the catholic church ( as i understand 1.2 billion ). However, our separated brethren and those nominal catholics who really does not understand what the real teaching of the catholic church is inappropriately using the charismatic organization as their venue to convert nominal catholics. For instance, what they call as Baptism of the Holy Spirit. They are telling the uninitiated catholics that they are being given the holy spirit in their initiation into the organization, which goes against the teaching of the sacrament of Baptism and Confirmation. Another is the SLU and NICI gospel prevalent among them. SLU is the prosperity gospel which does not appreciate the encyclical Salvifici DOLORIS which should gives proper value for moral and physical suffering, and the NICI, is the name it claim it, gospel, which seeks again to disregard the same encyclical and the disfiguration of the first agenda of prayer, which is the submission to the Will of the Father. These are just example and believe me there are numerous errors and teachings contradicting the teachings of our catholic church.

I guess Vatican would have to reign over these organizations to control their teachings and programs so that there wont be any opportunity for those who plans to destroy the unity of our church or come up with an aggressive program to impart genuine catholic teaching so that those who are nominal catholics may not easily be swayed by this fad within our church.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

This response is so out in left field that to even try to respond would be ludicrous and would give credence to something that is loaded with cliches, misinformation and downright, dare I say ignorance.
I don’t know what your background is, but you got misled somewhere. You will remain in my prayers.
Deacon Ed B

 

[Margarite]

Deacon Ed B,
You said that I was wrong, that I was misinformed, well, as I said at the very end of my las post, “I am not saying this is true of anyone on this thread, but I am saying that it is true of many Charismatic people that I have met.”

Here is my main problem with the Charismatic movement:
There are no rules.
You said that judging the Charismatic movement by the ignorant in that group is ignorant, and similar to judging the Church by the sinners. I disagree.
The Catholic Church has written rules and regulations (so to speak) and the Charismatic movement does not. A person who knows nothing of the Catholic Church can learn about the Church and what she really stands for from reading, but a person who knows nothing about the Charismatic movement can only look at the people within the Charismatic movement to judge it.
Now I must say that my opinion has gone up from a negative 10 to maybe a 1 since interacting with all the Charismatic people on this thread, but before I met you, I had met many, many Charismatic people who cared nothing for the Church, they only liked their Charismatic group lead by a woman who knows absolutely nothing about the Church and her teachings.

Also, I don’t think that you want to separate the Charismatic movement from the Church, I don’t think you want us to judge it outside the Church. You say that the Charismatic movement is part of the Church, so you should want us to judge it as part of the Church. Because our whole problem with it is that it does not seem to be in line with the Church, and does not seem to benefit the Church.
I am trying to judge it as I judge the TLM (traditional latin mass) I judge it by seeing they type of people drawn to it, the benefit it appears to give to the Church, and the amount of good vocations that comes out of it.
The TLM has a great success, good Catholics are drawn to it, it clearly benefits the Church because it draws people to be better Catholics, and the number of vocations coming out of it is amazing.
Can you say the same for the Charismatic movement?

I am not attacking you in any way and I am sorry if it comes over that way, I am just discussing different beliefs, please do not take this personally.

Peace

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

]Deacon Ed B,

You said that I was wrong, that I was misinformed, well, as I said at the very end of my las post, “I am not saying this is true of anyone on this thread, but I am saying that it is true of many Charismatic people that I have met.”
I suggest you contact the chancery office for your diocese to findout the approved Charismatic groups in your area.

Here is my main problem with the Charismatic movement:

There are no rules.
The rules are that they are in union with the Church. Pope John Paul II was a supporter of this movement. The majority of bishops support this movement and are glad to have it in their diocese. I know of many vocations to the priesthood that stem from the involvement of these men with the Charismatic movement.

You said that judging the Charismatic movement by the ignorant in that group is ignorant, and similar to judging the Church by the sinners. I disagree.

Reflect on your disagreement here. To judge the Church by its sinners gives a most erroneous impression. If you do this, you miss the truthfulness and richness of its doctrine and teaching. If you look for a church without sinners, you will not find one. We are all sinners, Catholic, protestant, Jewish, whatever we are.

The Catholic Church has written rules and regulations (so to speak) and the Charismatic movement does not. a person who knows nothing about the Charismatic movement can only look at the people within the Charismatic movement to judge it.

If you look at what the Church teaches, this is what the Charismatic movement follows. Are there those who go off on the deep end. Obviously yes. This is on all religions and groups… (I will avoid getting into politics here) Nowhere does this movement support or defend anyone going against the teaching of the Magisterium. I can say this with a fair amount of certainty due to my association with it, but more importantly with my sister’s relationship with it. She is the Chairperson of the steering committee for the National Charismatic Movement for the United States. She just got back from a meeting in Rome this week where world leaders in this movement were gathered for a meeting. Often, they are addressed by the Popes retreat master, Fr. Cantelamesa at these sessions. Obviously knowing her for my entire life, I can honestly say, she is totally Catholic in every way that is good. She herself is a world wide speaker at these Conferences. Go to one if you have not been to one. Be educated.

my opinion has gone up from a negative 10 to maybe a 1 since interacting with all the Charismatic people on this thread, but before I met you, I had met many, many Charismatic people who cared nothing for the Church, they only liked their Charismatic group lead by a woman who knows absolutely nothing about the Church and her teachings.

I am glad your rating has gone up. If you will be at the right places, which you can find by contacting your Chancery, I am sure it will go up even more. The teachings come from the conferences, guided and monitored with everything and everyone having sound credentials.

Also, I don’t think that you want to separate the Charismatic movement from the Church, I don’t think you want us to judge it outside the Church. You say that the Charismatic movement is part of the Church, so you should want us to judge it as part of the Church. Because our whole problem with it is that it does not seem to be in line with the Church, and does not seem to benefit the Church.

To this I can only say that your perception is wrong. Contact your Chancery to find approved groups for your diocese and be prepared to grow. I was most skeptical when I first got into it. This was my impression form the first few prayer meetings I and my wife went to. Our impression totally changed after attending our first regional conference which went from Friday to Sunday evening. All I can say is WOW.

I am trying to judge it as I judge the TLM (traditional latin mass) I judge it by seeing they type of people drawn to it, the benefit it appears to give to the Church, and the amount of good vocations that comes out of it. The TLM has a great success, good Catholics are drawn to it, it clearly benefits the Church because it draws people to be better Catholics, and the number of vocations coming out of it is amazing.

Do not judge the Charismatic movement by the Latin Mass, nor by the Novus Ordo Mass for that matter. The mass, in whatever language it is celebrated, is the central focus pointing to the Eucharist for us as Catholics. The Eucharist if the Sum and Substance of all that is Catholic. For we are a Eucharistic People. The Charismatic movement simply points us to the mass and Eucharist. If anyone tells you otherwise, do not listen to them as they know not what they are talking about.

Can you say the same for the Charismatic movement?
I am not saying the Charismatic movement is for everyone, just as I am not saying that Opus Dei is for everyone. There are different niches within the Church for people to participate in its richness in their own comfort zones. Simply consider the multiplicity of religious orders. All of them point to one thing. GOD So too does the Charismatic movement. Prayers and Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Margarite]

Sorry this post is a little confusing, Deacon Ed B’s writing is in black, my previous post is in this color and font, and my new posts are in this color and font

I suggest you contact the chancery office for your diocese to findout the approved Charismatic groups in your area…

Maybe I will someday, but I will not do so in this diocese, because I don’t trust the chancery’s judgement of what is good and bad. I will, look into it more when I am in college in WY where I know the bishop to be good.

The rules are that they are in union with the Church…

Later, you compare the Charismatic movement with Opus Dei, well, that group has rules for what they do. They even have a mission statement:
Opus Dei is a Catholic institution founded by Saint Josemaría Escrivá. Its mission is to spread the message that work and the circumstances of everyday life are occasions for growing closer to God, for serving others, and for improving society.
What is the Charismatic Movement’s mission statement?
Quote:
**You said that judging the Charismatic movement by the ignorant in that group is ignorant, and similar to judging the Church by the sinners. I disagree. **

Reflect on your disagreement here. To judge the Church by its sinners gives a most erroneous impression…

Sir, you misunderstand me, I am disagreeing with your point, I am saying that you cannot compare the judging of the Church with judging of the Charismatic movement because the Charismatic movement is a part of the Church.
Quote:
**The Catholic Church has written rules and regulations (so to speak) and the Charismatic movement does not. a person who knows nothing about the Charismatic movement can only look at the people within the Charismatic movement to judge it. **

If you look at what the Church teaches, this is what the Charismatic movement follows…

Opus Dei, the Knights of Columbus, The Legion of Mary, Priests for Life, Human Life International, Regnum Christi, Worldwide Marriage Encounter, Cursillo, Communion & Liberation, Focolare, etc… Every single one of these has rules, and guidlines and different things that make that group important and unique. What describes the Charismatic movement except feeling? Speaking in tongues? Being “slain in the spirit”? What describes the movement without these relative and not always present signs?

I can say this with a fair amount of certainty due to my association with it, but more importantly with my sister’s relationship with it. She is the Chairperson of the steering committee for the National Charismatic Movement for the United States…

Good for her! That is amazing! I am so glad to know that someone who loves the Church is helping to keep this movement in line with the Church.
Quote:
**I am trying to judge it as I judge the TLM (traditional latin mass) I judge it by seeing they type of people drawn to it, the benefit it appears to give to the Church, and the amount of good vocations that comes out of it. The TLM has a great success, good Catholics are drawn to it, it clearly benefits the Church because it draws people to be better Catholics, and the number of vocations coming out of it is amazing. **

Do not judge the Charismatic movement by the Latin Mass, nor by the Novus Ordo Mass for that matter…

Again Sir, you misunderstand me, I am not saying that I judge anything by the TLM, but rather that I judge the Charismatic Movement AS I judge the TLM. I judge the TLM by the type of person drawn, the benefit for the Church, and the number of vocations that it inspires (amoung many other things)
Quote:
**Can you say the same for the Charismatic movement? **

I am not saying the Charismatic movement is for everyone, just as I am not saying that Opus Dei is for everyone. There are different niches within the Church for people to participate in its richness in their own comfort zones…

I was asking
What type of person, what type of Catholic does the Charismatic movement draw?
What is the benefit of the Charismatic movement, what does it do for the Church?
Does the Charismatic movement inspire good, vocations? The vocations that benefit the Church and do not hinder her work?
This is what I was asking. I know that the Charismatic movement is probably not for everyone, but I am on this thread to find out if it is for anyone.
Please don’t just tell me to go and find out, give me the arguments, convince me with words.
Thank you for this wonderful discussion!

 

[DebChris]

I disagree with this most strongly… Those I know in the Charismatic Movement, are centered in the Eucharist, Eucharistic adoration, the Mass and sacraments. Many attend mass daily and receive the Eucharist daily. They are most keenly attuned to the richness of the Catholic Church and all it holds. I do admit, that as with all Catholics, some know more than others. It seems you have made a judgment the entire movement based on the actions of a few misguided individuals. I would no more judge the Church by its sinners, than the Charismatic Movement by some who are misled and go astray. If this is your only impression of this movement, I would suggest you attend one of the regional conferences that are held throughout the Nation. The talks, are most enlightening about the Catholic Faith, and the devotion to and love of God is most inspiring and fulfilling in many ways. By what you said, I sense you have not attended any of these. Please look into them.
Deacon Ed B

I have not caught up with the posts since my last one. There are some important statements within this post by Deacon Ed B that need to be brought forward for the skeptics of the Charismatic Renewal.

1. The Charismatic Renewal is one of many within the Church.
   It has brought many back to the faith and/or to an understanding of what it means to know and love God.
2. The Renewal is comprised of clergy and laity alike. It is indeed a good idea to attend one of the regional or local conferences. Charismatics do not wear a sign reading “I am Charismatic.” Very often it is only at these conferences that we discover that a beloved parish priest or bishop is Charismatic.
3. Our gifts are given for the upbuilding of the Church. These gifts of the Holy Spirit have led me to a greater intimacy with God than I could ever ask or imagine. In no way does it mean that I know all there is know or that my growth in faith is complete.
4. As a Catholic, I submit to the magisterium which recognizes and has indeed embraced the legitimacy of the Charismatic Renewal.
5. The most important point that Deacon Ed B has posted has to do with the Eucharist. The intimacy to which God calls us has indeed led many Charismatics to a greater love of the Eucharist. It has led to a deeper prayer life that includes many of the traditional prayers such as the rosary.
6. Many, like myself, are more open about what it means to love God and the importance of the Sacraments than we would be without the power of the indwelling Spirit.
   Please look at some of the earlier posts with links to the Vatican and its directions for members of the Charismatic Renewal

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Margarite, lest there be confusion here, my reply in post #371 was in reply to post #370. For my last post, I answered the questions as best I could. DebChris seems to have put my words together better than I did. I guess I will let her do my light fighting from now on. Thanks DebChris.

Margarite, I am most sorry you do not trust your Chancery. That can indeed be a problem and instill a bad taste for everyone. In so far as a mission statement for the Charismatic movement, I am sure they have one, I however do not know it. I was merely reflecting the conclusions I have drawn from attending conferences and hearing what they have to “say”. Nothing I have heard is in conflict with the teaching of the Magisterium. From what I do know, those as its leaders, look to the Magisterium for guidance. I don’t know if this answers your question, but that is my answer. It should also hopefully answer your question as to what it teaches.

Can I say the Charismatic Movement produces good vocations. I can say this knowingly, from knowing people who have been ordained priests, deacons, professed as nuns, sisters, brothers and have entered monasteries. So yes, I can judge it by the vocations it produces, as I personally known many.

What kind of person does the movement draw. From all walks of life and all stages of education from school dropouts to individuals with multiple doctorate degrees.

The benefits it gives the church is that it instills a greater love of the Eucharist, the mass, the sacraments and of the Church and produces excellent vocations.

While people from all walks of life, social standing, educational level and from extremely poor to extremely rich are in the Charismatic movement, it is not for everyone. I have known people to come into it, and leave it. Thats OK. My whole point is that I am asking you and others, before you condemn, as was done in post #370 (NOT YOUR POST) it is good to have facts beforehand.

For the following, I am speaking for me personally. If I would determine whether I would be involved in this movement based simply on what people told me about it. I would not be here. I would be extremely wary if anyone tried to convince me to come into it by explaining praying in tongues, interpretation, healing, slaying in the Spirit, etc. That would run me off faster than a rabbit being chased by a hound dog. What convinced me to come in was seeing and hearing what went on at a regional conference. If you really want to know, seek out one of these. No commitments have to be made. Just attend with an open mind. Listen the to the praise, thanksgiving, the open manifest love of God that is displayed. This is what pulled me in and I am thankful for it.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[daveqdimal]

This response is so out in left field that to even try to respond would be ludicrous and would give credence to something that is loaded with cliches, misinformation and downright, dare I say ignorance.
I don’t know what your background is, but you got misled somewhere. You will remain in my prayers.
Deacon Ed B

Your response seems to reflect the adage that IGNORANT IS LOUD. I could only infer of your naivity of the charismatic movement operates and what kind of teachings they provide to their members. I guess your friendship with charismatics and your value judgement of how their lives seems to have influenced your mind and sweepingly make motherhood statements which have no basis in fact but our inferred truths and not absolute truths. I may not be as educated as you are, i had only reached a masteral level but i know definitely that questioning my credentials is way of out of line in discussing issues. Shoot the message not the messenger, as journalist would say. Lets tackle the issues not the person.

What i speak of, is from my experience from within charismatic organizations and its primary information not secondary information as what i surmise you have, and my knowledge of the Catholic Teachings stems mainly from my informal studies of Philosophy, Church History, Ethics, Logic, Metaphysics, Hermeneutics, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Moral Theology, and other branches of theology. Though these special interest does not really matter in tackling the issues about charismatics. You asked, thats why im just responding. Further, my undergraduate is BS Industrial Engineering and graduate study on Business Administration. I used to be a senior Regional officer for Asia and the Pacific for an organization belonging to Fortune’s top 100. Again, these credentials is entirely irrelevant, i just said it, as i could infer that your perception of the substance of argument seems to have bearing only if its source “has credentials”. You gave me that impression when you had wondered about my background, so now im telling you. But again, i feel these doesnt really matter, in clinically tackling the issue. Let’s keep it that way.

The objective is for us to be informed so that we could appropriately act as good catholics, so we should keep things on the issues not on the person.

I thank you for your prayers, but always remember, the first agenda for any prayer, and that is the will of the Father.

It was good interacting with such a cerebral person in the forum.

Dave

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

To DAVEQDIMAL
Please read posts #'s 368,373,374,375 &376. If your opinion of the Charismatic movement is still the same, then, as I said, you are in my prayers.
Deacon Ed B

 

[DebChris]

“God has chosen the foolish of the world to confround the wise.”
A Nazarene pastor and I once discussed this very passage. Faith is not a matter of intelligence or earthly degrees. In fact our very intelligence, a gift from God, can stand in our way as we look for rational explanations pertaining to faith. Meanwhile the simple minded accept and use the grace God has given them. A prime example is John Vianney who has become the patron saint of priests.
The Charismatic Renewal is not about praying in tongues, although that is the most outwardly manifested of the gifts. It is not about being slain in the Spirit, a less frequent occurence during God works his healing grace within our lives. The Charismatic Renewal is first and foremost about our submission to God and the working of the Holy Spirit. This means letting go of preceived notions as to who or what God is.
Does this mean that reason and intelligence are unimportant? Of course not. Discernment of God’s will is likewise a gift of the Holy Spirit that keeps us from going astray.
One of the most recent testimonies I heard came from a Greek and Latin scholar. He spoke about how the words of Scripture, which he could read in the ancient languages, came alive for him only after receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
As Catholics, we have been given God’s sanctifying grace through the Sacraments. The gifts we have received often lie dormant and unopened. It is the release of these graces, these gifts of the Holy Spirit, that are at the heart of the Charismatic Renewal. Once we have been overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit, there is no turning back. His gifts are irrevocable.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I could appreciate that there may be a few charismatic movements which seeks to learn more and practice catholic teachings. Nonetheless, as i have become familiar with these organizations, i would say in general they are becoming breeding grounds for fundamentalism and the so called reformed main line protestants, the evangelicals. Considering the origin of the movement this is not surprising. Of course the existence of these organizations provide for the need to belong and be part of a smaller lay organization specially needed by a big organization like the catholic church ( as i understand 1.2 billion ). However, our separated brethren and those nominal catholics who really does not understand what the real teaching of the catholic church is inappropriately using the charismatic organization as their venue to convert nominal catholics. For instance, what they call as Baptism of the Holy Spirit. They are telling the uninitiated catholics that they are being given the holy spirit in their initiation into the organization, which goes against the teaching of the sacrament of Baptism and Confirmation. Another is the SLU and NICI gospel prevalent among them. SLU is the prosperity gospel which does not appreciate the encyclical Salvifici DOLORIS which should gives proper value for moral and physical suffering, and the NICI, is the name it claim it, gospel, which seeks again to disregard the same encyclical and the disfiguration of the first agenda of prayer, which is the submission to the Will of the Father. These are just example and believe me there are numerous errors and teachings contradicting the teachings of our catholic church.

I guess Vatican would have to reign over these organizations to control their teachings and programs so that there wont be any opportunity for those who plans to destroy the unity of our church or come up with an aggressive program to impart genuine catholic teaching so that those who are nominal catholics may not easily be swayed by this fad within our church.

Dave,
The more I think about it, I can only wonder why your feelings about the Charismatic movement are as negative as your post reflects. Has anything happened to make you feel this way. Have you had prior experience with it. Why are they so negative.
Deacon Ed B

 

[latinmass]

Please see post #32 and #44.

 

[Epsilon_Omega]

I go to a Lutheran university in Chicago. Just the other day, two young women from a Roman Catholic university in Ohio (Franciscan University Steubenville) were visiting one of the students here and were invited into our Christian Life class by the professor to “lead” class, so to speak, to engage in dialouge with the students, and answer questions.

What was particularly interesting is that one of the girls introduced herself as a charismatic Roman Catholic (and also affirmed that her school was affiliated with this movement) and the other said she was part of the Charismatic Episcopal Church. They said that there are healing services at their school and people speak in tongues during mass.

I want to clarify something here. I go to Franciscan University of Steubenville. Compared to other places (local parishes), we would be considered super charismatic, but really, I don’t consider that which goes on here really bad. We do lift our hands in praise to the Lord at mass (which isn’t bad, IMHO- we can argue this in another thread), but overall, Steubenville masses are by far more reverant than any mass I have ever been to elsewhere. Given we do use too many EMHCs and the tabernacle is located in a side chapel (bad location)… besides that, Steubenville masses aren’t so negative like non-franciscan people put it.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Please see post #32 and #44.

To this I will respond please read post #71
Prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B