Charismatic Roman Catholicism

[Flame_of_Christ]

Hi all I have been reading through this thread some and wanted to join in. I have really been blessed by the charismatic renewal. I think that the most important aspect of it is what has been termed “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” which is really a stirring into flame of the Holy Spirit that we have already received through our Baptisms and Confirmations.

Sometimes, even after baptism, people don’t change much. Confirmation too! I believe that this is sad because we should have been reallly transformed in a powerful way by these sacraments.

Well I wanted to offer a short article on the CCR written by the National Service Commitee of the Charismatic Renewal.

This is worth reading because it has statements made from the Leadership of the Catholic Church regarding this movement.

About Catholic Charismatic Renewal

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal as it exists today is the outgrowth from a retreat held in February 1967 of several faculty members and students from Duquesne University. Many of the students - though not all - experienced a movement of God’s Spirit called being “baptized in the Holy Spirit.” The professors had previously been “baptized in the Spirit” a week or two before. God’s action was also prepared for in a very human way by the students’ prayerful preparation in reading the Acts of the Apostles and a book entitled The Cross and the Switchblade.

What happened quickly spread to graduate students and professors at the University of Notre Dame and others serving in campus ministry in Lansing, Michigan. It continued to spread so that, as of this date, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal exists in over 238 countries in the world, having touched over 100 million Catholics in its nearly 40-year existence.

read entire article here:
nsc-chariscenter.org/aboutccr.htm

 

[DebChris]

Thank you, Flame of Christ. There is an internal transformation that takes place within all who receive the Baptism of the Spirit. Since it is a personal experience, it is not something that can be explained in words any more than what it means to fall in love can be explained. One of the first persons I told was my parish priest, a skeptic, who none the less noted “something different” about me and that I had “changed”. As with many others, God called me in the midst of crisis. I had no place else to turn.

 

[Hrvoje]

Just too add, a good friend of mine has seriously started considering priesthood since he came in touch with the charismatic renewal.
It really had an enormous impact on his spiritual life.

Also, another friend left the cafeteria of catholicism and became a full fledged catholic since he became a part of the renewal.

It also had a great impact on my own spiritual growth.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Thank you, Flame of Christ. There is an internal transformation that takes place within all who receive the Baptism of the Spirit. Since it is a personal experience, it is not something that can be explained in words any more than what it means to fall in love can be explained. One of the first persons I told was my parish priest, a skeptic, who none the less noted “something different” about me and that I had “changed”. As with many others, God called me in the midst of crisis. I had no place else to turn.

I do agree DebChris!

The thing about it that makes this renewal grow is the effect of having your gifts of baptism and confirmation stirred into flame. I am serious to those who have never been prayed over for the release of the Holy Spirit, I cannot describe it but at least I can try!

I know that some people have a hard time accepting the outward signs in the CCR, but what you see outwardly does not compare with the inward transforamtion that you are mentioning DebChris.

I think I will share my testimony a little later.

 

[palmas85]

Thank you, Flame of Christ.** There is an internal transformation that takes place within all who receive the Baptism of the Spirit**. Since it is a personal experience, it is not something that can be explained in words any more than what it means to fall in love can be explained. One of the first persons I told was my parish priest, a skeptic, who none the less noted “something different” about me and that I had “changed”. As with many others, God called me in the midst of crisis. I had no place else to turn.

Am I to assume by the bold part that those of us who have not been so transformed are missing out on the fullness of the faith? Or missing out on something “more” that you now have?

If you could please explain this to us who have missed out on the transformation. I for one would be keenly interested in knowing what this transformation consists of.

 

[DebChris]

Posts with references:
#105-- Quote from Pope Benedict XVI with link
#107–Scripture
#117–Cathecism of the Catholic Church
#217–United States Cathecism for Adults

Flame of Christ mentioned the book The Cross and the Swithblade which is a great read. It is true that David Wickerson never converted to Catholicism as far as I know. Nevertheless, a person does not need to be a member of a particular denomination in order for God to work in his/her life. People come to know Christ through the ministry of Billy Graham and John Schuller.
For those of us who are already Catholic, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit reminds us of the richness we already have through the Sacraments, the liturgy, the Tradition into which we were born (Baptized).
Some posts talked about beautiful cathedrals and such. I was trying to remember the scripture passage in which Jesus admonished his Apostles for admiring the Temple. I have attended rich liturgies in military base camps, in the field, and other places as well as beautiful cathedrals. The question we need to ask is what motivated the builders and painters. More precisely, Who inspires each of us to give our gifts and talents in service to God for his greater glory that He might be praised throughout the world?
Flame of Christ–I posted part of my testimony on other threads. I knew nothing about the Charismatic Renewal when I became a part of it. It was simply God’s call on my life that led me to experience the charismatic gifts.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Am I to assume by the bold part that those of us who have not been so transformed are missing out on the fullness of the faith? Or missing out on something “more” that you now have?

If you could please explain this to us who have missed out on the transformation. I for one would be keenly interested in knowing what this transformation consists of.

Hi there palmas,

I know this sounds like nonsense to someone who hasn’t been through it, but yes something does take place when we pray and ask that the Holy Spirit be stirred up.

The Baptism in the Spirit is just that. Not a new sacrament or anything, no.

Just asking God to stir up the gifts we were given so that we could become fearless witnesses of Jesus like the apostles became.

May our Lady protect you with her love always

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

Posts with references:
#105-- Quote from Pope Benedict XVI with link
#107–Scripture
#117–Cathecism of the Catholic Church
#217–United States Cathecism for Adults

Flame of Christ mentioned the book The Cross and the Swithblade which is a great read. It is true that David Wickerson never converted to Catholicism as far as I know. Nevertheless, a person does not need to be a member of a particular denomination in order for God to work in his/her life. People come to know Christ through the ministry of Billy Graham and John Schuller.
For those of us who are already Catholic, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit reminds us of the richness we already have through the Sacraments, the liturgy, the Tradition into which we were born (Baptized).
Some posts talked about beautiful cathedrals and such. I was trying to remember the scripture passage in which Jesus admonished his Apostles for admiring the Temple. I have attended rich liturgies in military base camps, in the field, and other places as well as beautiful cathedrals. The question we need to ask is what motivated the builders and painters. More precisely, Who inspires each of us to give our gifts and talents in service to God for his greater glory that He might be praised throughout the world?
Flame of Christ–I posted part of my testimony on other threads. I knew nothing about the Charismatic Renewal when I became a part of it. It was simply God’s call on my life that led me to experience the charismatic gifts.

Deb, can you give a link to your testimony? I think that it will make more sense when people can hear first hand about what the Lord does when we ask Him to fill us with His Holy Spirit.

Thank you so much sis!

May the Lord reward you for trying to help others to be filled with His love.

 

[DebChris]

Am I to assume by the bold part that those of us who have not been so transformed are missing out on the fullness of the faith? Or missing out on something “more” that you now have?

If you could please explain this to us who have missed out on the transformation. I for one would be keenly interested in knowing what this transformation consists of.

In my post, I wrote about change. Change is at the heart of conversion. Conversion is an ongoing process. It is why we need the Sacrament of Reconciliation. This conversion of the heart does not take place by our own efforts. It requires the working of the Holy Spirit. Each of us, as Flame of Christ writes, has received the grace of the Holy Spirit. God dwells within each of us. She (he) writes about stirring these gifts into flame.
Another way to state this might be that when we submit our will to the Will of God, he will stir the embers of our faith to the point that like the disciples on the way to Emmaue, our hearts burn within us.
No matter how hard we try, it is humanly impossible to know God. God himself, by the working of the Holy Spirit, reaches across the chasm that divides us. It is by God’s grace and not my own efforts that I am changed.
Again, words will always fail in trying to discribe this transformation. I would need more time and space than a single post will allow. When I was a child, I heard a sermon in which the priest talked about the response of a young boy to the question, “How big is God?” The boy replied, “God is so big that the heavens cannot hold Him and so small that He fits into my heart.” I now know what it means for God to fit into my heart.

 

[po18guy]

This response is so out in left field that to even try to respond would be ludicrous and would give credence to something that is loaded with cliches, misinformation and downright, dare I say ignorance.
I don’t know what your background is, but you got misled somewhere. You will remain in my prayers.
Deacon Ed B

Deacon Ed, I have been through “Life in the Spirit” seminars. I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I asked for tongues. I got prophecy. What a blessing! This lead me directly to the Eucharist in Adoration. I now intercede before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament and have seen miracles of healing. I do 1-2 (3 this past Holy Thursday) hours weekly in intercession. I cannot stop sharing my faith, and the Holy Spirit even has my Adventist(!) chaplain at work begin prayers “in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”.

I went to an “In the Service of the King” seminar last April. After “debating” with the priest during reconciliation, I came to my senses, realizing I was arguing with Christ! I then had the most Spirit-filled reconciliation of my life. The priest grabbed me so I wouldn’t fall from the chair, so thoroughly was the Holy Spirit shaking me! I wept for some time after. What more is there to say?

I am aware that some seem to value speaking in tongues above all else. This is misdirected, especially in light of 1 Corinthians 14. I am only tangentially involved with the CCR, picking and choosing carefully how I involve myself. Simply put, once the fire is lit, is is much easier to keep it burning. No more secret Catholic. No more cafeteria Catholic. I choose to be crazy in love with Christ. It pays BIG dividends.

God bless you, Brother.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

In my post, I wrote about change. Change is at the heart of conversion. Conversion is an ongoing process. It is why we need the Sacrament of Reconciliation. This conversion of the heart does not take place by our own efforts. It requires the working of the Holy Spirit. Each of us, as Flame of Christ writes, has received the grace of the Holy Spirit. God dwells within each of us. She (he) writes about stirring these gifts into flame.
Another way to state this might be that when we submit our will to the Will of God, he will stir the embers of our faith to the point that like the disciples on the way to Emmaue, our hearts burn within us.
No matter how hard we try, it is humanly impossible to know God. God himself, by the working of the Holy Spirit, reaches across the chasm that divides us. It is by God’s grace and not my own efforts that I am changed.
Again, words will always fail in trying to discribe this transformation. I would need more time and space than a single post will allow. When I was a child, I heard a sermon in which the priest talked about the response of a young boy to the question, “How big is God?” The boy replied, “God is so big that the heavens cannot hold Him and so small that He fits into my heart.” I now know what it means for God to fit into my heart.

That was beautiful Deb. btw I am a guy

I think that that is teh whole point of this. It is that there is a living person inside of you. He is alive and He can speak to you, He is your friend and He is right there! He is God and we do not know Him as much as we could. Words just aren’t enough to explain how we can all grow into a closer union with He who is.

May the Lord enkindle in us the fire of His love.

 

[DebChris]

Deb, can you give a link to your testimony? I think that it will make more sense when people can hear first hand about what the Lord does when we ask Him to fill us with His Holy Spirit.

Thank you so much sis!

May the Lord reward you for trying to help others to be filled with His love.

Sorry, I don’t have a link. Perhaps, I can be a little more specific in my response to palmas85. This may actually mean revealing more than I have in the past.
I mentioned field masses. Yes, I was in the military, both as a dependent and a Reservist. I come from a stereotypical large Catholic family in which each of us was baptized by the time we were two weeks old. Daily rosary was part of our routine. I knew the various Catholic rituals, the “shoulds and should nots of Catholicism.”
I accepted an Active Tour of Duty for Support that took me away from my family. Instead of working long hours trying to lift my family out of debt (the reason for accepting the tour), I found I had time for daily Mass. I followed the idea from a welcoming brochure that said it was possible to read the Bible in one year. This is done by reading 3 chapters a day plus 5 on Sunday. Everyday after work, I would take the 15 minutes necessary to do just that. I became close friends with the Chaplain through different chapel sponsored activities from a parish picnic to a Jesus Day Conference (not Charismatic).
I visited a Pentecostal church, unimpressed. The person who invited me could not understand how I could merely observe and not take part in the service (this is part of my previous testimony).
I bragged about the priorities of my life: (1) God (2) family (3) work. Little did I know I was about to be put to the test. When I returned home, my family was in turmoil. No matter how hard I fought, there was nothing I could do. I knew the scripture passages from Sunday sermons about King Solomon and how Jesus said we must be willing to “give up mother, brother, and sister” to follow him.
The family counsellor directed me to a retreat center run by Marianists, where I made an Easter retreat, the first I had ever made. One of the teachings from the Jesus Day Conference was about discernment. “Do everything you can and then sit back and wait for God.”. I kept going back to that retreat center where an interdenominational prayer group met every Thursday. I knew a miracle would happen in my life. I knew that like the members of the group, I would be praying in tongues by Pentecost. I still had not heard the term “charismatic.” My Baptism in the Spirit took place on Ascension Thursday.
Did it change the outward circumstances of my life? No, I still lost my family and I gave up my career. God gave me the strength I needed and led me to different decisions than I would otherwise have made.

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

DebChris,

Your testimony is very impressive because it shows how God helps us in our time of trial. He was there for you when you needed Him.

You make a great speaker for the renewal, given your background. You sound like a real soldier for the Lord.

May the Lord grant us all understanding, more and more each day.

Please tell me more about your testimony! What exactly happened to you during that time when the Lord stirred up His Spirit in you?

What change did it make in you, because you sound like you were already given a hunger for reading His word.

Thanks DebChris!

 

[DebChris]

DebChris,

Your testimony is very impressive because it shows how God helps us in our time of trial. He was there for you when you needed Him.

You make a great speaker for the renewal, given your background. You sound like a real soldier for the Lord.

May the Lord grant us all understanding, more and more each day.

Please tell me more about your testimony! What exactly happened to you during that time when the Lord stirred up His Spirit in you?

What change did it make in you, because you sound like you were already given a hunger for reading His word.

Thanks DebChris!

It is important that those new to the renewal undestand that what happens during the Baptism in the Spirit is not always as dramatic as my own experience. Some people merely experience a sense of peace. This peace is the peace that Christ said he would give us, “a peace beyond understanding.”
One of the brothers at the retreat center would witness about how he experienced nothing until the following day when he cried for 15 minutes. A Carmelite nun witnessed about how the initimacy she enjoyed after 2 hours of contemplation was now entered in ten.
Each individual experience is as individual as the person that God has created. These individuals had already given their lives to Christ. One priest witnessed about contemplating leaving the priesthood until his Baptism in the Spirit brought about a change of heart. One of the witnesses I heard at the retreat center spoke about finding Christ while in prison. He was at the time working as a roofer where God kept him on his knees.
Although I still “do those things I would not do” I find myself less reactive and more responsive to the situations I face. I underwent deliverance and saw an angel (a vision) touch my lips and I began to sing.

 

[palmas85]

Hi there palmas,

I know this sounds like nonsense to someone who hasn’t been through it, but yes something does take place when we pray and ask that the Holy Spirit be stirred up.

The Baptism in the Spirit is just that. Not a new sacrament or anything, no.

Just asking God to stir up the gifts we were given so that we could become fearless witnesses of Jesus like the apostles became.

May our Lady protect you with her love always

I was unaware that those of us not so transformed are unable to be as you say fearless witnesses of Christ. I kind of get the impression from many of these posts that more than a few of those who have been through the experience you speak of feel that they are somehow superior, more spiritually aware as it were, than the rest of us. Like you guys are the “New Apostles” Connected to Christ and the Holy Spirit in a way the non transformed cannot be.

Almost like the rest of us we are missing out on the fullness of the faith.

 

[Walking_Home]

Pope Benedict XVI – to the Bishops of Guatemala
03/07/2008

fides.org/aree/news/newsdet.php?idnews=12327&lan=eng

agencia fides

To respond to the growth of sects, the Pope encouraged them, saying, “firmness in the faith and participation in the Sacraments strengthens your faithful against the risk posed by sects or by supposedly charismatic groups, which create disorientation and can even endanger ecclesial communion.”

 

[Brian777]

I do not discount the Charismatic movement.

I do NOT speak in tongues and I’ve never been ‘slain in the Spirit’. However,** I’ve gone to a number of retreats that are on the Charismatic side. **

I know many people who have been healed–one that had a broken leg that had healed incorrectly–one leg was longer than the other and right in front of everyone, her leg was healed. Another woman had severe blood clots and was on medication. After one of the healing services, when she went to the doctor, the blood clots had disappeared and she was taken off the medication. Another person was cured from cancer.

I can’t disbelieve after witnessing some of these healings. And I know that Speaking In Tongues as well as the Interpretation of the Tongues are gifts of the Holy Spirit that some people to have.

If you’ve never experienced a Charismatic service, it will very likely freak you out–or seem very weird. But after that, you will be more comfortable with it.

Don’t be closed-minded to it if you’ve never experienced it before.

–Barbara

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Deacon Ed, I have been through “Life in the Spirit” seminars. I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I asked for tongues. I got prophecy. What a blessing! This lead me directly to the Eucharist in Adoration. I now intercede before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament and have seen miracles of healing. I do 1-2 (3 this past Holy Thursday) hours weekly in intercession. I cannot stop sharing my faith, and the Holy Spirit even has my Adventist(!) chaplain at work begin prayers “in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”.

I went to an “In the Service of the King” seminar last April. After “debating” with the priest during reconciliation, I came to my senses, realizing I was arguing with Christ! I then had the most Spirit-filled reconciliation of my life. The priest grabbed me so I wouldn’t fall from the chair, so thoroughly was the Holy Spirit shaking me! I wept for some time after. What more is there to say?

I am aware that some seem to value speaking in tongues above all else. This is misdirected, especially in light of 1 Corinthians 14. I am only tangentially involved with the CCR, picking and choosing carefully how I involve myself. Simply put, once the fire is lit, is is much easier to keep it burning. No more secret Catholic. No more cafeteria Catholic. I choose to be crazy in love with Christ. It pays BIG dividends.

God bless you, Brother.

If I read you correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong, the quote you have of me, was said to someone totally condemning the Charismatic movement . It was so off the wall, I did not know how to respond. I am Charismatic, Yes, gifts of the Spirit are just that gifts., and tongues is the least of them. some have that, some have others as well, some do not have it but have others, and and some have none. None of the gifts are a point of brag, but a way of helping us love God even more. I just finished spending the day with a priest who has been Charismatic for 38 years, and he really opened by eyes to the gifts of the Spirit. He pointed out we get them not through the baptism of the Spirit, but through Baptism and Confirmation. the only thing the Baptism in the Spirit does is to reawaken the Spirit within us. (not that he was asleep, but rather we who have been asleep) I am not, nor have I ever said everyone should be Charismatic. The only thing I ask is that those who are not, not condemn us for living in and loving this niche in the Church. How does the song go, “there are many parts, we are all one body” This is a definite reference to the Mystical Body. Each part is necessary and we have only one head, that is Jesus Christ.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

I was unaware that those of us not so transformed are unable to be as you say fearless witnesses of Christ. I kind of get the impression from many of these posts that more than a few of those who have been through the experience you speak of feel that they are somehow superior, more spiritually aware as it were, than the rest of us. Like you guys are the “New Apostles” Connected to Christ and the Holy Spirit in a way the non transformed cannot be.

Almost like the rest of us we are missing out on the fullness of the faith.

I really do feel like a new apostle ever since I recevied the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
I am not sure if you will understand but I am not preaching about myself here, I preaching about the power of the Holy Spirit to transform you if you ask Him to and open yourself up to the graces that might be lying dormant in you from the sacraments that you have already received.

 

[Brian777]

Gladly!

ccc.garg.com/index.php?name=FAQ&id_cat=3

This will take you straight to there response. Just listen to the tone of it…

ccc.garg.com/index.php?name=FAQ&id_cat=3#q42

This is the place where they belittled the Rosary…

ccc.garg.com/index.php?name=FAQ&id_cat=3#q39

There is the barking…

tldm.org/News8/CharismaticMovement.htm

A good website that goes into this. Along with the oinking like a pig… Personally I’m waiting for someone to act like a chicken…

AMEN!