Charles Martel and the Fall of Europe

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Ridgerunner said:
I have long thought European countries ought to adopt an “open borders” policy to Hispanics from the Western Hemisphere. No, they ought to send ships over to give them free passage. They already speak a European language, are good workers and would make you very glad they are there. Yes, and they’ll fill your churches as well. Spain even has a “historic excuse” to open its borders to them. It can give them preference on the pretense of “making reparations” for its former colonialism. Once they’re EU members, the other European nations can welcome them.
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That’s what Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians etc are for.
 
ralphinal said:
Then why the influx of Muslims into places like France looking for work?
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What influx?

Most of the French Muslims arrived after decolonization of Algeria etc, most German Muslims were Turkish ‘Guest Workers’, most British Muslims are from Pakistan and came in the 50’s and 60’s. Getting their relatives in is a difficult process for them.

Of course, there’s illegal immigration into the EU (hence my earlier ‘joke’ about Mexicans) but most legal immigration is from Eastern Europe and it’s massive.
 
Kaninchen said:
What influx?

Most of the French Muslims arrived after decolonization of Algeria etc, most German Muslims were Turkish ‘Guest Workers’, most British Muslims are from Pakistan and came in the 50’s and 60’s. Getting their relatives in is a difficult process for them.

Of course, there’s illegal immigration into the EU (hence my earlier ‘joke’ about Mexicans) but most legal immigration is from Eastern Europe and it’s massive.
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Ok. This is not the information that the media gives us in the states. Yes, the migration from East to west is discussed, but it is common for the message to be that places like France are taking in any Muslims willing to work in the places that the French will not. The worker riots a couple of years ago were discussed as being recent immigrants to France. This is not just on the conservative news, but the liberal CNN as well. According to you, the American media is not telling the correct story, which is not surprising. It is just rare that all of the news sources agree.

Do you have any idea of what percentage of Muslims have moved into European countries in the last 20 years versus ones already there? Or any sources?
 
ralphinal said:
Do you have any idea of what percentage of Muslims have moved into European countries in the last 20 years versus ones already there? Or any sources?
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No, I’m afraid I don’t, but I do know about our own paranoias!

The riots in France took place amongst French, yes French, Muslim youth living in the equivalent of US ‘Projects’ with serious grievances about jobs, housing etc. The US has some experience of such unrest itself.

Meanwhile, the movement from Eastern Europe has been quite staggering.
 
France already has a policy not dissimilar from what I described. One can become a citizen of France if one comes from a former colony (like me. I live in the former Louisiana territory) learns French, moves to France and assimilates. I could become a Frenchman in time simply by moving there. Once one is a citizen of France, one is a citizen of the EU. Unfortunately, France’s former colonies in the Western Hemisphere are places from which people almost never emigrate (Louisiana, Quebec) or who are too poor to get to France (Haiti) or aren’t allowed to leave (Vietnam). The former French colonies from which people both do and can emigrate are Islamic.

But Spain and Portugal have a much richer population vein to mine. They not only need to adopt the French policy, they should subsidize immigration from their former colonies, and grant immediate work permits. (Yes, and Filipinos would come to Europe in great numbers too, if they could. They’re Christian, western in culture and eager to work hard. They don’t have the language advantage Hispanics have, but many speak at least some English.)

Even in the “Third World” birth rates are declining. Europe ought to import Hispanics and Filipinos vigorously before it’s too late.
 
Ridgerunner said:
France already has a policy not dissimilar from what I described. One can become a citizen of France if one comes from a former colony (like me. I live in the former Louisiana territory) learns French, moves to France and assimilates. I could become a Frenchman in time simply by moving there. Once one is a citizen of France, one is a citizen of the EU.
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I think your information is very seriously out of date.
 
Kaninchen said:
I think your information is very seriously out of date.
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Kindly update me then. I don’t keep close track of what the French do.

And there aren’t enough people in Eastern Europe outside Russia to fill the impending western European population collapse if every last one of them moved to Western Europe, which they won’t anyway.

But even though you are resisting the idea now, we’ll still welcome you here when the time comes. Well, Poland might not be under Sharia law then, so that might be an alternative for you.
 
Kaninchen,

Just because you are in (or from, I forget which) Europe doesn’t mean you have the clearest perspective on this.

Your commitment to secularism may be blinding you.

Your inability (unwillingness) to see the conflict and the seriousness of it is very telling. Denying that there is a problem doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

Having said that, your points about modern Europe being a product of it’s (especially recent) history are well taken, but I don’t see them as providing much ground for optimism. ISTM that there is a certain inevitability implied there.

Europe’s history has not just made her cautious about cultural and ideological exclusivism, it appears to have emasculated the old man entirely rendering him incapable of a response.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Kindly update me then. I don’t keep close track of what the French do.

And there aren’t enough people in Eastern Europe outside Russia to fill the impending western European population collapse if every last one of them moved to Western Europe, which they won’t anyway.

But even though you are resisting the idea now, we’ll still welcome you here when the time comes. Well, Poland might not be under Sharia law then, so that might be an alternative for you.
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You’re as capable of looking up EU and French immigration laws as I am.

As for the paranoias, I’ll stick to European ones.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Goodness! Since you said I was wrong, I thought you knew. Of course I would not ask you to look up anything.
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I do (in outline, partly because an American friend who has married a EU citizen has had a torrid time trying to get ‘residence’ and the pair of us have spent a fair bit of time shaking our heads over the whole labyrinthine process), the point is that I’d then have to go through the process of transmitting the details over to you - something that:
  1. I’m too lazy to do;
  2. you’re quite capable of doing yourself; and
  3. Shabbat is approaching.
 
Kaninchen said:
I do (in outline, partly because an American friend who has married a EU citizen has had a torrid time trying to get ‘residence’ and the pair of us have spent a fair bit of time shaking our heads over the whole labyrinthine process), the point is that I’d then have to go through the process of transmitting the details over to you - something that:
  1. I’m too lazy to do;
  2. you’re quite capable of doing yourself; and
  3. Shabbat is approaching.
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Getting it is different if its based on marriage anyway. Have a nice Shabbat.
 
Quick research:
  1. Arrive with legal papers: including a French visa, carte de séjour, or carte de résident
  2. Live five years in France before applying for French citizenship (this is the one the Louisiana Purchase exemption lets you skip)
  3. One must prove complete assimilation into a French community
  4. “De bonnes vie et moeurs”–One must be of good character (have no criminal record)
The office of the Préfecture found in all French cities handles this process. In proving assimilation into a French community, fluency in French is desirable, and one is encouraged to read French newspaper and magazines for the previous year. The authorities will be assessing what types of local French community activities you are involved in, and will expect you to talk about them.

Now you know. Not that it really matters because the number of emigrants from Louisiana territory would be negligible. Doubtless the same is true of Quebec.
 
Kaninchen said:
I do (in outline, partly because an American friend who has married a EU citizen has had a torrid time trying to get ‘residence’ and the pair of us have spent a fair bit of time shaking our heads over the whole labyrinthine process), the point is that I’d then have to go through the process of transmitting the details over to you - something that:
  1. I’m too lazy to do;
  2. you’re quite capable of doing yourself; and
  3. Shabbat is approaching.
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shabat shalom.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Quick research:
  1. Arrive with legal papers: including a French visa, carte de séjour, or carte de résident
  2. Live five years in France before applying for French citizenship (this is the one the Louisiana Purchase exemption lets you skip)
  3. One must prove complete assimilation into a French community
  4. “De bonnes vie et moeurs”–One must be of good character (have no criminal record)
The office of the Préfecture found in all French cities handles this process. In proving assimilation into a French community, fluency in French is desirable, and one is encouraged to read French newspaper and magazines for the previous year. The authorities will be assessing what types of local French community activities you are involved in, and will expect you to talk about them.

Now you know. Not that it really matters because the number of emigrants from Louisiana territory would be negligible. Doubtless the same is true of Quebec.
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From that, I know very, very little.

Let’s start at the beginning of the process, not the end?

How does somebody who wishes to get a visa to reside in France get one? What are the rules now?

This might be a good place to start. I don’t see where it mentions Quebec or Louisiana, however.
 
May I remind everyone here that “Europe” does not just consist of England, France, Spain, Germany, and Switzerland. Ever heard of …
  • Poland
  • Slovakia
  • Romania
  • Ukraine
  • Russia
  • Lithuania
  • Slovenia
  • Croatia
  • Mecedonia
  • Latvia
  • Greece
  • Italy
  • Portugal
  • Czech Republic
  • Bulgraria
  • Hungary
  • Austria
  • Serbia
  • Georgia
  • Moldova
perhaps it is liberal christianity that is dying?

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=11800

You can only hope and pray and say amen

Likewise, the presence of Islam in Europe is nothing new like some believe. Muslims have lived in Europe for centuries in the former Yugoslav-USSR regions
 
uglygal said:
May I remind everyone here that “Europe” does not just consist of England, France, Spain, Germany, and Switzerland. Ever heard of …
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What about: Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and the tiny ones like Luxembourg?

Georgia is a bit of a ‘stretch’ by the way.
 
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