chart of anti-Catholic religions?

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You really need to learn what the Catholic Church truly teaches. For instance, the Church teaches that any sex outside of marriage (including homosexual) and abortion are very grave sins. Also, the Catholic Church is the church that decided which books to put into the New Testament canon, so to claim that the Church isn’t Biblical is rather silly. :rolleyes:
How much influence did Constantine have in determining which books to include and would you say that he was the Church?
 
Thank you, sorry if I broke any rules, it was not my intent and I tried to emphasize that I was only stating my opinion and not attacking any one individual.
Well, since you’re new around here, I thought I’d give you fair warning. You are absolutely free to disagree with Catholic doctrine, but you must be sure that what you’re disagreeing with is actually the doctrine and not someone’s misconception of that doctrine. In all things, charity.
The One True Church founded by Christ has been almost non-existent since the begining of the catholic church. I believe for most of the last 2000 yrs their has only been a remnant that has held true to the Word of God. I believe that No denomination has had a consistent TRUE doctrine. I believe that every time God has given an individual a revelation of truth it has flourished for a time and then that persons followers always want to organize to the point of rituals and adding their own twists to the doctrines.
The Church founded by Christ is the Catholic Church. If you believe that the Catholic Church came into being at anytime later than Pentecost, you are mistaken. For most of the last 2000 years, most Christians didn’t have their own copy of the Word of God. Would you be willing to set aside all of your next 3 years’ wages to buy yourself a copy of the Bible? That’s how expensive they were before the printing press. For the first 370 years of Christianity, there wasn’t even an official declaration of what was inspired Scripture. Have you read Where We Got the Bible? If you have 27 books in your New Testament, it’s because the Catholic Church determined that those were inspired and the other 300 manuscripts circulating at the time (that also claimed apostolic authority) were not.
One of the men I know that is a catholic prays to saints and to Mary, this is blatantly contrary to the Word and is pagan worship. If this is not still a catholic doctrine then why not, although it must be if you say the catholic church has been consistent with its doctrines.
Ah, but you are using the word “pray to” to mean “talking only to God” and when a Catholic says “pray to” that’s just shorthand for “asking someone to pray for me” and it is not worship. Ever read any Shakespeare? Pray means ask. It’s only recently that certain people have isolated it’s usage to mean a method of worship. If it’s pagan worship to ask people to pray for you, then you’d better have a good explanation for prayer request time at your church! Last time I was in a non-Catholic church, a better part of the evening services on Sundays and Thursdays were devoted to sharing prayer requests and praying for one another.
Popes and priests in the past purchased there way into the church, tortured and murdered millions of protestants, Changed their way of baptizing from the Lord Jesus Christ to the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, Allowed Charlemagne who controled the nicene council, Sold indulgences (which I hope to God the papacy doesnt still do this sick practice), allow priests to forgive sins and give absolution, teach that saints protect and help us in our daily activities, etc etc etc…
Wow, there’s a lot here that’s just inaccurate and sounds like it came from an anti-Catholic tract. Do you have sources for this information? I could run down the list but it’s really a lot for this thread and you can find information about all of these things either at the Catholic Answers library or at Scripture Catholic. I can assure you that “Murder those Protestants” is not now and never was in the Catechism! 😃

(cont’d)
 
(Cont’d from previous post)
These are just a few of the things that I say are anti-biblical, again if these are not current practices of the catholic church let me know. The catholics I have had discussions with may be confused, I doubt the historians are completely ignorant of the catholic churches practices but everyone makes mistakes. The Bible on the other hand does not make mistakes so please let us discuss why the catholic church is the true Bride of Christ. I may have never had a in-depth conversation with a catholic that was educated correctly in his/her doctrines so you will probably enlighten me to a few things.
A lot of what you’ve said is based on misconceptions and anti-Catholic bias. By what authority do you say that the Catholic Church is anti-biblical? How do you know that your interpretation of Scripture is the correct one?
If someone can show me im wrong using the Bible then I am more than open to having my opinion changed. 🙂
You’ll love these free downloads from the Bible Christian Society. He uses the Bible to explain the teachings of the Catholic Church in a very down-to-earth manner. Recommended listening order:
One Church
Apostolic Authority and the Pope
The Bible and the Sacraments
Mary and Purgatory
and then the rest at your leisure.
I would love to know what you read specifically that made you decide on the catholic church. I was in the pentacostal church for about 25yrs and got fed up of their worldly ways.
Basically I couldn’t reconcile Jesus words in Matthew 5, 16, 25 and John 6 (and some other places) with what I was hearing taught from the pulpit.
I am not in a denomination now, I am a Christian that follows the Bible I wont follow some guy or church that wants to give me his/their own interpretation of the Word.
Newsflash: If you are in a church that was founded by someone other than Christ Jesus Himself, you are in a denomination even if that church says it’s non-denominational. Scripture itself tells us that we need a guide to understand it. You can’t say “the Holy Spirit guides me” because that’s what everyone else in 33,000+ other denominations says as well, and they all disagree with each other. Dave Armstrong once said, “Who, then, was following the Holy Spirit on the question of the Lord’s Supper? Luther or Calvin? Who was right about the nature of baptism (e.g., does it regenerate?), Luther or Calvin?*** I challenge you to name even a single major doctrine that all Protestants agree on, which is not already a tenet where Protestants already agree with Catholics and Orthodox***.”

PM me if you have any further questions so as not to derail this thread. 👍

Blessings,
PD
 
How much influence did Constantine have in determining which books to include and would you say that he was the Church?
Constantine called the council of Nicean, which had virtually nothing to do with the forming of the canon. It was not even discussed at Nicea. That council was called to address the Arian heresy.

The council that formed an undisputed decision on the canon took place at Carthage in 397 (60 years after Constantine’s death).

No, Constantine was not the Church, he was a Roman Emperor who made it legal to practice Christianity.
 
Constantine called the council of Nicean, which had virtually nothing to do with the forming of the canon. It was not even discussed at Nicea. That council was called to address the Arian heresy.

The council that formed an undisputed decision on the canon took place at Carthage in 397 (60 years after Constantine’s death).

No, Constantine was not the Church, he was a Roman Emperor who made it legal to practice Christianity.
I agree with this. I think Constantine is oft the victim of what I call modern “History blurring”, Which is to me, what happens when people make unknowledgable assumptions from our modern perspectives on past historical events and people.

The fact is(and many people seem to have fogetten it), that it was his mother who was a Christian first and likely taught him both tolerance of the religion(after all it was her religion) and belief in it, and this was certainly what probally mostly affected his pro-christian decisions and tendancy(Not to mention the legend about his vision of the cross in the sky too, which seems to overshadow this other element), especially his decision to legalize christianity. It was certainly not compleatly for “Political” purposes but rather also for private purposes involving the fact that his mother was a christian.
 
Re: chart of anti-Catholic religions?

Thank you, sorry if I broke any rules, it was not my intent and I tried to emphasize that I was only stating my opinion and not attacking any one individual.
These are just a few of the things that I say are anti-biblical, again if these are not current practices of the catholic church let me know. The catholics I have had discussions with may be confused, I doubt the historians are completely ignorant of the catholic churches practices but everyone makes mistakes. The Bible on the other hand does not make mistakes so please let us discuss why the catholic church is the true Bride of Christ. I may have never had a in-depth conversation with a catholic that was educated correctly in his/her doctrines so you will probably enlighten me to a few things.

If someone can show me im wrong using the Bible then I am more than open to having my opinion changed. 🙂

I would love to know what you read specifically that made you decide on the catholic church. I was in the pentacostal church for about 25yrs and got fed up of their worldly ways. I am not in a denomination now, I am a Christian that follows the Bible I wont follow some guy or church that wants to give me his/their own interpretation of the Word.

God Bless U

Jason

Tiber Swim Team, Class of '07
Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic
This signature does not square with the rest of the post. Quoting error?!?!? Anyway, I could guess that all of these “charges” against Christ’s Church came from good old Jack T Chick. If not, they must be from one of his understudies. They are all not only untrue, but amazingly untrue. They spark anger in the reader, which, if not corrected with the truth, becomes hatred of Christ’s church.

Go to this page and please read from there: catholic.com/search.asp?query=Jack+Chick

You clearly love the Lord. That is good. However, you have been horribly mislead about the Church that Christ founded on Cepha in Matthew 16:18. If you come here to accuse and condemn, your faith life will be stunted, as you will end up being banned as some others have. If you have come here to learn the truth, you will be amazed as it unfolds before you. But first, please read up on professional anti-Catholic organizations that make money by selling tracts that mislead. Any worldwide organization that was as evil as the church you describe would be in control of the earth and would not allow such information to exist. Since that information does exist, doesn’t that tell you that it is baseless and false?

Christ’s peace be always with you.
 
Many mainline Protestant churches would be happy to enter into full communion with Rome unconditionally, with each side keeping their current theology and practices. I am not saying that Rome ought to agree to this, only that the obstacle is primarily on Rome’s side.
I have to admit that I’m not familiar with any groups that would like to join with the Catholic Church and not also try to change Catholic teachings in the process.

Could you provide some examples of protestant denominations that wish to re-join with Rome and yet let each side retain their own distinct teachings?
Protestants originally left because they opposed some aspect of Catholicism. That is not why we are Protestants today.
I agree that many modern day protestants are simply carrying the traditions of their fore-fathers. But how does one separate the past from the present so easily? Isn’t one built on the other?
We are Protestants today because that is how we have received the Christian Faith, and we are not going to abandon our heritage unless and until we are convinced it is wrong.
I agree.

But we are also sinners in Adam today because that is how we have received his original sin.

Many from within Judaism today also do not accept Jesus as Lord because that is how they have received the apostolic rejection of Christ from their rabbinic fore-fathers.

How is carrying on the traditions of the protestant rejection of Catholic teachings not simply a continuation of these two formula provided above?

I’m not trying to demonize anyone. I admit that we as Catholics have done our share of injustices in some areas-- which is, in my opinion, the real reason for the rise of protestantism. But I don’t think that simply carrying on a heritage from one’s fore-fathers, however noble it may seem to them, necessarilly excuses one from searching for the truth either.

I respect your (name removed by moderator)ut. But exactly how this plays out, whether it be invincible ignorance (via the traditions from fore-fathers) or a true motion of the Holy Spirit (via the virtue of belief or expectations for Christ) remains to be seen in the judgement day. It think it’s bit of both to be honest.
Dale
 
Hello again, I only have a second and will clarify what I was speaking of in whole in the next few days. First I was not speaking of the canon, I probably wasnt very clear since I was rushed by my schedule. The prob. I have with the nicene council is the doctrine of the Godhead that they established. Again I will do my best to get some time to later finish my post.

God bless,

Jason
 
How much influence did Constantine have in determining which books to include and would you say that he was the Church?
Hi Valke,

Looks like Pixie Dust answered your question in post #44. 😃
 
I haven’t had a chance to get through the thread yet. However, the history of Christianity is something most Protestants don’t know. I am Southern Baptist and I defend Catholics at church. I have gotten some heat for it. The way to getting them to “get you” is history. If you do an analysis comparison of the Bible versus Catholicism thing, you will never set of the light bulb for them. Also, make them see you don’t worship Mary and that the pope can’t be infallible when he says McDonald’s is the best fast food. They have more misconceptions than anything.
 

I think its rather egocentric of religion X to describe all others as “anti-X” - people do have other things to think of than the Churches to which they do not belong.​

I didn’t give Catholicism a moment’s attention for most of of my life as an Anglican 🙂 - amazing & unbelievable as it may seem, Catholicism is really not important for plenty of people. Why should it be ?
Well, as some parts of the Anglican church unravel and others draw closer to full communion, and as the Episcopal continues to swirl in the wind, both you and Edwin may come to realize that you will always have a home in Catholicism. You’re just visiting now, but are welcome to move in whenever ready. We already enjoy your conversation.

Christ’s peace be always with you.
 
I believe for most of the last 2000 yrs their has only been a remnant that has held true to the Word of God.
Don’t tell me, this “remnant” is the denomination you happen to belong to, right? Where is the historical evidence of its existence for the first 1500 years after the Resurrection?
I believe that No denomination has had a consistent TRUE doctrine. I believe that every time God has given an individual a revelation of truth it has flourished for a time and then that persons followers always want to organize to the point of rituals and adding their own twists to the doctrines.
What? Jesus **lied **when He said “I will be with you always…the Spirit will guide you into all truth…on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”?
Popes and priests in the past purchased there way into the church, tortured and murdered millions of protestants,
Have you one skerrick of evidence for these outrageous accusations?
Changed their way of baptizing from the Lord Jesus Christ to the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost,
“Changed”? You haven’t read Jesus command in Matthew 28:19.
allow priests to forgive sins and give absolution,
um, it was Jesus again who allowed, indeed commanded that, as recorded in the Gospels.
teach that saints protect and help us in our daily activities, etc etc etc…
Just as the Bible says.
These are just a few of the things that I say are anti-biblical,
What you say seems to be very anti-biblical.
 
Don’t tell me, this “remnant” is the denomination you happen to belong to, right? Where is the historical evidence of its existence for the first 1500 years after the Resurrection?
Nope, I dont belong to a denomination and I believe that the remnant is from a variety of places much fewer will come from certain denominations.
What? Jesus lied when He said “I will be with you always…the Spirit will guide you into all truth…on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”?
No Jesus didnt lie I would be scared to say Jesus is a liar if I were you. Jesus never lies. The gates of Hell has not prevailed against the true church. He has prevailed against many that think they are living in truth but are not.
Have you one skerrick of evidence for these outrageous accusations?
If I really need to I would be glad to, but I find it hard to believe that you or anyone else has not read history or even primary reading speaking of these historical facts. The Medici bought at least to seats in the papacy one being lorenzos son.
Changed"? You haven’t read Jesus command in Matthew 28:19.
You obviously believe the bible can contradict itself. Read the book of acts and get rebaptized. Jesus said to go baptizing in the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Proper english tells us that this only confirms the multiple points of scripture in acts. I am a father a son and I have a spirt, what is the NAME (singular) of all three, OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different officed occupied by our Lord. God does not have multiple personality syndrome, 1God=1Person,…The correct way to baptize is in the our Lord Jesus Christ.
What you say seems to be very anti-biblical
.

Again if you believe the Bible can contradict itself then keep your man made baptism like those that kept the baptism of John the Baptist, paul re-baptized them in the lord Jesus Christ.

God Bless
 
Oh well I’m grateful to God that at least you admit the truth that Jesus commanded Catholic priests to forgive sins, that the Bible teaches us that the saints help us in our daily activities, and that the Church has never tortured or murdered protestants.🙂

Unfortunately you still cling irrationally to the idea that there was some totally invisible “remnant” which contradictorily was the true Church, the light on the hill visible to all. 😦
 
Oh well I’m grateful to God that at least you admit the truth that Jesus commanded Catholic priests to forgive sins, that the Bible teaches us that the saints help us in our daily activities, and that the Church has never tortured or murdered protestants.🙂

Unfortunately you still cling irrationally to the idea that there was some totally invisible “remnant” which contradictorily was the true Church, the light on the hill visible to all. 😦
Luke 11:33
The Lamp of the Body ] "No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead he puts it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light. - Jesus Christ.

So much for the hidden remnant. So many are fiery pastors from the Church of I. I interpret it thusly…I know the Catholics are in error…I do not believe (insert bible verse here) means that…I don’t need church history…
 
Hello again, I had written another post and submitted it but it must not of went through, cant find it anyway may be operator error on my part since im still figuring out the aspects of this site. anyway here is some more ideas on some of the replys.
Oh well I’m grateful to God that at least you admit the truth that Jesus commanded Catholic priests to forgive sins, that the Bible teaches us that the saints help us in our daily activities, and that the Church has never tortured or murdered protestants
.

Im not sure what I said to make you believe that I would think something like that. Jesus never said anything to a catholic because they werent in existence when He on on the earth. Only Jesus Christ can forgive sins, He never gave priests any authority to forgive sins. Please give me a scripture that would give you this impression. Peter was not a catholic and He was also not given the authority to forgive sins.
So much for the hidden remnant. So many are fiery pastors from the Church of I. I interpret it thusly…I know the Catholics are in error…I do not believe (insert bible verse here) means that…I don’t need church history…
It is not a hidden remnant, it is however ignored and attacked by other churches that are happy in their disobedience. The way to Christ is Narrow and the way to hell is Wide. The Catholic Church is the largest Christian church, representing about half of all Christians, and is the largest organized body of any world religion.[3] According to the Statistical Yearbook of the Church, Something I copied from another site.

" the Catholic Church’s worldwide recorded membership at the end of 2005 was 1,114,966,000, approximately one-sixth of the world’s population.[4][5][6]" That narrow gate is going to be stretched beyond its limits.

I guess I need to ask the questions:

Do catholics believe that the catholic church is the only way to christ?

Do catholics believe that all catholics are Christians?

Luke 11:33
The Lamp of the Body ] "No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead he puts it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light. - Jesus Christ.

This scripture is not even properly used for this context. What is the last part of this scripture: So that those WHO COME IN MAY SEE THE LIGHT. One has to desire light and seek light to find it, The Light is on the other side of the door and HE is knocking all one has to do is open the door and welcome Him in. The Light is in plain sight for those that choose to invite it in. We have to study the entire scripture and context, not just a little of each scripture that looks like it supports something we want to believe.
You clearly love the Lord. That is good. However, you have been horribly mislead about the Church that Christ founded on Cepha in Matthew 16:18. If you come here to accuse and condemn, your faith life will be stunted, as you will end up being banned as some others have. If you have come here to learn the truth, you will be amazed as it unfolds before you. But first, please read up on professional anti-Catholic organizations that make money by selling tracts that mislead. Any worldwide organization that was as evil as the church you describe would be in control of the earth and would not allow such information to exist. Since that information does exist, doesn’t that tell you that it is baseless and false?
Mathew 16 has nothing to do with the catholic church and I have not come to condemn anyone. That is not any of our jobs including the popes, none but our Lord have that authority. I have come to learn why you believe what you believe. From the time of the first pope in 440ad till around the 16th cent. the catholic church Was in control of the majority of the world.

More later, God Bless you all

Jason
 
He never gave priests any authority to forgive sins. Please give me a scripture that would give you this impression. Peter was not a catholic and He was also not given the authority to forgive sins.
Jason, please listen! Christ clearly, undoubtedly gave Peter the keys to heaven. Matthew 16:19
“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Peter had this power, and passed it on by the laying on of hands. Apostolic succession is a part of the “Whatever” that Christ promised Peter. That process is documented in Acts. Google the list of Popes. No, they weren’t always called that, but they all did that. Every Catholic priest can trace his ordination back to one of the twelve Apostles. Think about that for a minute. That is an unbroken line of Apostolic succession-again, it started in Acts to replace Judas with Barnabas, and has continued to this day.
" the Catholic Church’s worldwide recorded membership at the end of 2005 was 1,114,966,000, approximately one-sixth of the world’s population.[4][5][6]" That narrow gate is going to be stretched beyond its limits.
You sound almost like a Jehovah’s Witness :eek: . Lord have mercy! How small and impotent is your god, if that’s true.
Do catholics believe that the catholic church is the only way to christ?
It is the way that Christ Himself established. You know of a better way? You might be saved if you wilfully remain outside of his church. I cannot take that chance.
Do catholics believe that all catholics are Christians?
First: catholic means “universal”, that was the name given to it by the second century (way before the phony date in the 400s that someone told you). Of course Catholics are Christians, if they were properly baptized using the trinitarian formula. Their level of faith and devotion will be judged by Christ.
WHO COME IN MAY SEE THE LIGHT.
OK, so which “church” must we join, and vow allegiance to before we “see the light”? Christ taught the public in open spaces, and taught the devout Jews in the Temples and Synagogues. No one had to perform a secret handshake or vow allegiance before they could see the light. Christ is light to all.
Mathew 16 has nothing to do with the catholic church and I have not come to condemn anyone (except the Church!-po18guy). That is not any of our jobs including the popes, none but our Lord have that authority (true) . I have come to learn why you believe what you believe. From the time of the first pope in 440ad till around the 16th cent. the catholic church Was in control of the majority of the world.
Where in hell did these ideas come from? The evil one? Since you already “know” so much about the church, are you really here to learn? Since ALL of your “facts” so far are untrue, someone has apparently lied to you about “catholicism” popping up in the 400s, about the Popes condemning anyone, about basically everything. And, what convenient lies! Catholicism “invented” right after the canon of scripture was settled at Nicea. How convenient! Even Luther gave credit to the Catholic church for scripture, and you should as well.

You believe that satan exists, right? Which church does he hate, and come against continually? The false churches? NO! They are actually helping him by leading the faithful away from the truth. He comes against the truth. He is even now trying to destroy the One Church from within by corrupting some of the faithful, and he is trying to destroy it from without, by lying to believers such as yourself.
 
Im not sure what I said to make you believe that I would think something like that. Jesus never said anything to a catholic because they werent in existence when He on on the earth. Only Jesus Christ can forgive sins, He never gave priests any authority to forgive sins. Please give me a scripture that would give you this impression. Peter was not a catholic and He was also not given the authority to forgive sins.
Jesus most certainly did give authority to forgive sins:

John 20
21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
 
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