Chicago 'womanpriest' will not be buried in Catholic cemetery

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Pilgrimage said:
Maybe God wants to place them there, ‘because’ men have not been hearing His call to a humble service. Have you not considered this? Why would women feel that they are being called otherwise?

Open your eyes, this male dominated world has allowed the sacrament of marriage to be eroded away, already the day of rest has been lost to whole nations, children are being slaughtered before they are born at the hands of another male dominated world, children are being actively educated against God’s grace and salvation with the blessings of governments, governmental leaders in a male dominated world are making laws upon laws whilst they are guided in their own corrosive behvaiours, father’s are leaving homes and fathering children outside marriage with no feelings of responsibility, and because of this children have lost and are losing respect for fatherhood and the male voice.

At this present time the all male priesthood has been under attack for sexual improprieties on an unprecedented scale. Men, especially, are audaciously blaspheming Christ right across the Internet and causing young men to do so verbally in public places. Men are also indulging in explosive sexual orgies of the mind on a scale never encompassed before, which is belittling to women and dangerous to children.

For too many unsaved souls priesthood is not a guiding light to Christ anymore. Given our circumstances, it’s foolish to think that a woman priest can’t guide this lost and self indulgent generation by the power of God’s Holy Spirit in a way He has called her to do so. If God choses to give her the authority to do so, He will.

We all know that His standards are in purity and sacrifice, not the sex of the vessels He choses. It’s because churches are standing up for the ‘wrong’ thing ie male dominance, that overt homosexuality, pedophilia, baby slaughter, corruption etc is creeping in.

My friends, this is about God’s love for this sinful and corrupt world.

God bless
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If the Catholic Church ordains women do you think it will work as as “well” as it has in your denomination?
 
ChemicalBean said:
In the case of the woman who passed, she sensed a call to this service, and this service was validated by a community of faithful, just not the RCC. How painful and ironic it must have been for her to live most authentically, and yet separated from the Church and traditions that she probably loved. The Holy Spirit was probably speaking to the world through her in this capacity, yet in a very real sense the Church “aborted” her priestly vocation, as it has countless others, including a Doctor of the Church.
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You choose to take Ms. Denomme’s word that she felt such a call and to assume such a call was from the Holy Spirit. I choose to take the word of the Church founded by Jesus Christ that for such a person to be called to the priesthood is an impossibility. That woman was obviously a deeply disordered individual. The basic pattern of her life consisted of arrogating to herself roles that rightfully belong to men. First, she became the spouse of a woman. Then, apparently still not feeling “manly” enough, she usurped the title of “priest” in a mock ceremony that amounted to an attempted kidnapping of the Bride of Christ.
How similar it is for us to pray “send us children, but they have to be healthy, and look like us, and arrive on our schedule, and, and…” and also “send us priests, but they have to be male, and be unmarried, and be straight, and be psychologically perfect, and be capable of getting a Master’s degree, and, and…”! I think our “culture of death” has extended to not only procreation but to Church vocations and we are too stubborn to realize it or admit it.
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That is a false analogy. The examples are dissimilar because in the first case God commands us to be absolute accepting of the children He chooses to give us; unlike seminarians, they are never candidates for anything, but are simply our children from the moment of conception. In the case of those who wish to become priests, however, God, through Sacred Scripture and Tradition, has given us strict criteria as to whom we may accept. Moreover, if we deny our children their natural and rightful condition as our children we must do so by murdering them, and thus deprive them of their very existence on this earth. When an individual, for a theologically valid reason, is rejected for the priesthood, he or she is only being denied the priesthood, which in any case would only have harmed him or her if the ordination were done in opposition to the will of God. The rejected individual still has the opportunity to humbly discern his or her true vocation and serve God in that capacity.

Chemical Bean, you are obviously an intelligent individual, but I remind you that no human intelligence can compare to God’s. That is why a “questioning” frame mind should be the exception, and not the rule. I humbly present some of the wisdom of our Creator through the following verse:
Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding.
Proverbs 3:5
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Pilgrimage said:
Jesus gave Peter an instruction to ‘look after’ His sheep and lambs.

It’s the church’s duty to tend and care for its flock as well as feed it. I will pray for you, that God gives all of you a deeper understanding of His work when I am with any elderly Catholics, who couldn’t care less who I am, just that I love them as Jesus teaches us to.

God bless
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If you really care for those people, and even respect their faith, as you claim to do, why don’t you call a Catholic priest to administer them the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick?

Of course, you could them call them a priest AND offer them your own prayers and companionship in their last days. You are creating a false dichotomy by implying it is one or the other.
 
Pilgrimage said:
Maybe God wants to place them there, ‘because’ men have not been hearing His call to a humble service. Have you not considered this? Why would women feel that they are being called [to the priesthood] otherwise?
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Because the same pride and ignorance that you show in abundance makes them think they are being called.

As the rest of your tiresome post demonstrates, you think the solution to all the world’s ills is to put women in charge. While everyone here seeks to respect and cherish women as much as Jesus Christ did, the difference between you, friend Pilgrimage, and us, faithful Christians, is that we put our trust in God and you put your trust in Woman.
 
fkjuliano said:
Because the same pride and ignorance that you show in abundance makes them think they are being called.

As the rest of your tiresome post demonstrates, you think the solution to all the world’s ills is to put women in charge. While everyone here seeks to respect and cherish women as much as Jesus Christ did, the difference between you, friend Pilgrimage, and us, faithful Christians, is that we put our trust in God and you put your trust in Woman.
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Bravo.
 
estesbob said:
If the Catholic Church ordains women do you think it will work as as “well” as it has in your denomination?
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God uses vessels of his love, male or female where ever they are in the world and whatever church they are in. Women are no less effective at any of His work than a man. He is Word and Spirit working within mankind.

In fact, when and if, many of the abused people decide to come back to church, they are going to be far more comfortable in the presence of a women. Your arguments for male priests are simply going to go straight over their heads because they will always feel that they are being betrayed.

What ever did they do to be left with shepherds who watch sheep in the darkness?

God bless
 
Pilgrimage said:
What ever did they do to be left with shepherds who watch sheep in the darkness?

God bless
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Your argument would have some validity if all male priests were predators (or most) and all women ministers were impeccable. I guess it is unavoidable, as it is in all Catholic issues, that the priest abuse gets brought up. Areas with many women, like the education system, also have their incidents of sexual abuse. Women priests will do nothing to address this problem.
 
Pilgrimage said:
God uses vessels of his love, male or female where ever they are in the world and whatever church they are in.
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Jesus established the Catholic Church and no others.
Christ “established here on earth” only one Church and instituted it as a “visible and spiritual community”, that from its beginning and throughout the centuries has always existed and will always exist, and in which alone are found all the elements that Christ himself instituted. “This one Church of Christ, which we confess in the Creed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic …]. This Church, constituted and organised in this world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him”.

In number 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium ‘subsistence’ means this perduring, historical continuity and the permanence of all the elements instituted by Christ in the Catholic Church, in which the Church of Christ is concretely found on this earth.

It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them. Nevertheless, the word “subsists” can only be attributed to the Catholic Church alone precisely because it refers to the mark of unity that we profess in the symbols of the faith (I believe… in the “one” Church); and this “one” Church subsists in the Catholic Church.
Hope this clears things up for you.
 
Pilgrimage said:
God uses vessels of his love, male or female where ever they are in the world and whatever church they are in. Women are no less effective at any of His work than a man. He is Word and Spirit working within mankind.

In fact, when and if, many of the abused people decide to come back to church, they are going to be far more comfortable in the presence of a women. Your arguments for male priests are simply going to go straight over their heads because they will always feel that they are being betrayed.

What ever did they do to be left with shepherds who watch sheep in the darkness?

God bless
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If the Catholic Church ordains women do you think it will work as as “well” as it has in your denomination?
 
1holycatholic said:
Hope this clears things up for you.
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Of course, since Pilgrimage is not Catholic, s/he is not likely to find a Vatican document to be an authoritative opinion.

I am sorry that Janine Denomme was unable to receive a Catholic funeral and burial. I suppose the publicity surrounding her relatively recent, and invalid, ordination as a Catholic priest made this decision by the archdiocese inevitable. It would be difficult for them to look the other way, given the high profile of her act and her unwillingness to repent of it.

The archdiocese’s decision will sit well with many Catholics, including those outside the area. But for many non-Catholics, it won’t. It flies in the face of mainstream contemporary culture in the US, and many will see it as medieval, vindictive and hypocritical. I’m glad the Ms Denomme’s funeral did not get more press coverage than it did, because I think it would have provoked outrage.

Then again, those who would be outraged are likely to not hold the Catholic Church in high regard already.
 
1holycatholic said:
The Bible is a Vatican document.
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I’m not sure that is true, other than a copy of the Bible being hosted on their website. The books of the Bible were determined by ecumenical councils, not the Vatican. Regardless, as we all know the Bible can be interpreted in many different ways. Many Christian denominations disagree about what it teaches.

But to get back to my point, you cited a Vatican document expressing the official doctrine of the Catholic Church, You didn’t cite the Bible.
 
Dale_M said:
Of course, since Pilgrimage is not Catholic, s/he is not likely to find a Vatican document to be an authoritative opinion.

I am sorry that Janine Denomme was unable to receive a Catholic funeral and burial. I suppose the publicity surrounding her relatively recent, and invalid, ordination as a Catholic priest made this decision by the archdiocese inevitable. It would be difficult for them to look the other way, given the high profile of her act and her unwillingness to repent of it.

The archdiocese’s decision will sit well with many Catholics, including those outside the area. But for many non-Catholics, it won’t. It flies in the face of mainstream contemporary culture in the US, and many will see it as medieval, vindictive and hypocritical. I’m glad the Ms Denomme’s funeral did not get more press coverage than it did, because I think it would have provoked outrage.

Then again, those who would be outraged are likely to not hold the Catholic Church in high regard already.
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If my wifew ordains me as Pope on my deathbed would you be outraged when the Church refused to allow me to be intered at St Peters?
 
estesbob said:
If my wifew ordains me as Pope on my deathbed would you be outraged when the Church refused to allow me to be intered at St Peters?
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erm… no, I wouldn’t. But I am not sure why you are asking. Do you have ambitions we don’t know about? 😉

For the record, I don’t believe the Archdiocese of Chicago was wrong. They did what they had to do. I merely am saying it looks bad to outsiders.
 
Dale_M said:
erm… no, I wouldn’t. But I am not sure why you are asking. Do you have ambitions we don’t know about? 😉

For the record, I don’t believe the Archdiocese of Chicago was wrong. They did what they had to do. I merely am saying it looks bad to outsiders.
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Because that is the part of this stroy people seem to miss. This women was oprdained by her lesbian partner. Gender is irelevant-anyone, male of female, would have been excommunicated for making such a mockery out of Holy Orders.
 
edwest2 said:
Here is what the Church tells us:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

God bless,
Ed
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👍 Clear and cut. We as Catholics have already seen from dissenters of the Catholic Church the bad fruits produced of " so-called womens ordination". THEIR APPROVAL OF CONTRACEPTION, ABORTION, EUTHANASIA, “SO -CALLED SAME SEX MARRIAGE”, FORCING ALTERNATIVE ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE SEXUAL ACTS TO THE PUBLIC.

From the 1960’s many Catholic adults have been poorly catechised about their faith. Many have seen “Vatican II” as like a new enlightenment of thinking just like the industrial revolution of the 1800’s. Quite a few rogue, rebellious religious as well as many of the laity took it upon themselves to form a “so-called democratic” approach on Church doctrine.

The problem was not Vatican II. The problem was and still is this I call a “Vatican Twoish” attitude and behavior among many Catholics. Removing statues, removing kneelers, hiding the Tabernacle in church backroom closet. Laity telling the Holy See how the Catholic church is to be run.

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS NOT A DEMOCRACY. IT WAS, IS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD AND MASTER ALL THE WAY INTO THE SECOND COMING.

Many Catholic dissenters more than likely do not have the Catechism of the Catholic Church or totally ignore the information in the Catechism. Many have not taken the initiative to read the sixteen documents of the Second Vatican Council or totally ignore them. Let alone any Council or Papal documents. True I don’t expect most rushing out and bury their faces in Church documents.

Mainly this attitude comes mostly from many Parishes/Dioceses that do not bring this information to the laity or bring false doctrines.Father Pfleegler in Chicago. How can a priest teach faith and morals contrary to church teaching. This “liberation theology” has created so much damage, no wonder cretain groups of women and men try to push “so-called womens ordination”.

As far as the refusal to bury this woman in a Catholic cemetery. If this woman repented of her sinful actions before her death God will take care of her and welcome her. If this woman died unrepentant, then the separation from God was her choice. To bury this woman in a Catholic cemetery on the message of “so-called womens ordination” would be scandalous to the Catholic community as well as the general public.

If this woman repented, dropping her ordination and reconciling to the Catholic church, then there would have been no problem of her burial.
 
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