Chicago Women trying to become Deacon

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I believe the Orthodox church also allows its priests to marry.

And permanent deacons (at least in the Roman Catholic tradition) are allowed to marry.
 
findingmyself08 said:
I believe the Orthodox church also allows its priests to marry.

And permanent deacons (at least in the Roman Catholic tradition) are allowed to marry.
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No, they are not. There is a big difference that you have missed. Married men are permitted to be ordained. Once ordained, they cannot marry (again).
 
PJH_74 said:
That’s sad, I don’t see anything a woman can’t do here that a man can. But that’s my opinion and experience.
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For me, it’s not about whether a woman can or cannot do something in the sense of ability. Just b/c she can doesn’t mean that she’s allowed by or should be allowed to by the Church. Like you, that’s my opinion. I’m in a profession that traditionally has been all male. That trend has been changing in the past 10 years. The difference is that my profession isn’t dictated by the Church.
WingsOfEagles said:
I don’t think it’s going to happen…I’d rather have married Priests than a female Deacon/Priest, but that’s just me (plus some Biblical support from Paul on gender roles). 🤷
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So would I. Having a priest who is married wouldn’t bother me at all.
 
Elizium23 said:
No, they are not. There is a big difference that you have missed. Married men are permitted to be ordained. Once ordained, they cannot marry (again).
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Sorry, I knew I got something wrong there as soon as I hit submit, but I figured I would be corrected if I got it wrong. :o Sorry 'bout that.
 
maltmom said:
For me, it’s not about whether a woman can or cannot do something in the sense of ability. Just b/c she can doesn’t mean that she’s allowed by or should be allowed to by the Church. Like you, that’s my opinion.
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I’m also a bit biased on the issue…my beautiful wife is an ordained Lutheran pastor. 😃
 
It is impossible to reinstitute Deaconesses today because the role of a deacon has evolved. Remember in the past the Deacons were selected by the Apostles to run their ministries, such as serving the tables (ie. soup kitchens). They did not have Liturgical ministries or functions. Liturgical ministries were given to men, the Apostles. The Apostles then passed it on to bishops. Eventually as the Church grew, it necessitated that the bishops delegate some of their authority to other men in the Church. Remember in Acts that the deacons were selected because the Apostles wanted to concentrate on proclaiming the Word. Today, that very function falls on the deacon. Even the priesthood existed solely on the bishops in the first few centuries until presbyters were given the role to be priests.

So given what Deacons are today, it is impossible to give that ministry to women unlike in the past where deacons and deaconesses did not have the Liturgical function that deacons have today.
 
PJH_74 said:
I’m also a bit biased on the issue…my beautiful wife is an ordained Lutheran pastor. 😃
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Of course you are. I’m sure God uses her in wonderful ways in your church. I took a stand 20 years ago when I was attending a church affiliated with Church of God. I found out b/t Sunday and the service that a female pastor was leading the service that day. I immediately felt that I needed to leave b/c in my heart I didn’t think it was right. As a Catholic that is what I still believe. This is what is right for me.

God bless you and your wife.
 
triumphguy said:
@daleM 90% true.

Priests and bishops participate in the priesthood of Christ
Deacons participate in the servanthood of Christ - they are in persona Christi, as Christ the Servant, not Christ the High Priest.
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I don’t think the 2006 document you cited actually supports that claim. In fact, it seems to draw a strong distinction between the nature of a priest the nature of a deacon.

Quoting from that 2006 document
The priest is ordained to the sacerdotal ministry of sacrifice, of acting in persona Christi. The deacon is ordained to the service of Christ, the Deacon.
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The priest is an alter Christus, whereas the deacon is not.

Moreover, this seems to be the 2008 motu proprio which Pope Benedict issued, and the Chicago Tribune article referred to:

Omnium in Mentum
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_letters/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apl_20091026_codex-iuris-canonici_en.html

In this document, the pope has canon law changed to read
“Those who are constituted in the order of the episcopate or the presbyterate receive the mission and capacity to act in the person of Christ the Head, whereas deacons are empowered to serve the People of God in the ministries of the liturgy, the word and charity”.
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Again, that seems to draw a bright line between priests and deacons. Priests act in persona Christi, whereas deacons do not.
 
ringil said:
I actually don’t have a problem with it but the Church says no so that means it’s a “no”.

Case closed- nothing to see here folks. . . . .
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I dunno…

At this time, women can not become deacons. But there seem to be reason to think that situation may (and I said “may”) change.

Cardinal George’s statements in the news article indicate that its more of an open question than many here claim.
George declined to answer specific questions from the Tribune, reiterating through his spokeswoman that the matter of female deacons is still an “open theological question” for the church. During his meeting with parishioners, George expressed reservations, suggesting some theological questions had to be resolved first. But he also promised to include it in his report to the pope and to raise it with key leaders during his February meeting in Rome with the church’s leadership.
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Dale_M said:
I don’t think the 2006 document you cited actually supports that claim. In fact, it seems to draw a strong distinction between the nature of a priest the nature of a deacon.

Quoting from that 2006 document

The priest is an alter Christus, whereas the deacon is not.

Moreover, this seems to be the 2008 motu proprio which Pope Benedict issued, and the Chicago Tribune article referred to:

Omnium in Mentum
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_letters/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apl_20091026_codex-iuris-canonici_en.html

In this document, the pope has canon law changed to read

Again, that seems to draw a bright line between priests and deacons. Priests act in persona Christi, whereas deacons do not.
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I’m not sure about that.

It doesn’t say that deacons are NOT in the person of Christ the Servant, rather it changes Canon Law in order to explain LG#29 more clearly.
At a lower level of the hierarchy are deacons, upon whom hands are imposed “not unto the priesthood, but unto a ministry of service.”(74*) For strengthened by sacramental grace, in communion with the bishop and his group of priests they serve in the diaconate of the liturgy, of the word, and of charity to the people of God. It is the duty of the deacon, according as it shall have been assigned to him by competent authority, to administer baptism solemnly, to be custodian and dispenser of the Eucharist, to assist at and bless marriages in the name of the Church, to bring Viaticum to the dying, to read the Sacred Scripture to the faithful, to instruct and exhort the people, to preside over the worship and prayer of the faithful, to administer sacramentals, to officiate at funeral and burial services. Dedicated to duties of charity and of administration, let deacons be mindful of the admonition of Blessed Polycarp: "Be merciful, diligent, walking according to the truth of the Lord, who became the servant of all. "http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...s/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
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On the other hand John Paul II does say:
“DEACONS ARE CONFIGURED TO CHRIST THE SERVANT”
Pope John Paul II: Address to those taking part in the plenary assembly of the Congregation for the Clergy, November 30, 1995.
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…By the imposition of the bishop’s hands and the specific prayer of consecration, the deacon receives a particular configuration to Christ, the Head and Shepherd of the Church, who for love of the Father made himself the least and the servant of all (cf. Mk. 10 43-45; Mt. 20:28; 1 Pt. 5:3). ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp951130.htm
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So Deacons are not priests, but they are configured in the person of Christ the Servant.
 
Dale_M said:
I dunno…

At this time, women can not become deacons. But there seem to be reason to think that situation may (and I said “may”) change.

Cardinal George’s statements in the news article indicate that its more of an open question than many here claim.
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Well that’s interesting.

To be honest. I trust the Church to do the right thing- that’s why I’m Catholic.

There are things I disagree with personally- like the Church’s stand on Contraception- but I still practice what the Church teaches. It’s about being obedient for me.

If the Church says women can’t be deacons- I’m fine with that.
If the Church says they can- well then OK.

I don’t have a big hat so I don’t get a vote. I’m cool with that. 🙂

I think it’s strange to read posts from some who claim to be the most “orthodox” or “hard-core Catholics” expressing strong opinions on what the Bishops and Pope “need to do.” In this way the super “traditionalists” begin to behave like the “dissidents” they so decry. 🤷
 
maltmom said:
As a Protestant I walked out of church services when a woman “pastor” came in as a guest to give the sermon. I wouldn’t attend a Catholic church that had a woman “deacon”. Since I don’t see it ever happening I don’t have to worry about the second.

I am woman and I firmly believe that there are some roles that woman are not called to do.
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I agree with you, what part of the word NO do these women not understand, the Orthodox religion, and the traditional Jewish Religion get it and so do most men and women get it in the Catholic Church they dont have the authority to ordain deacons, if they are so hell bent on having there way and not God’s way let them join one of the many Prodestant Churches that do allow it which from the beginning of there existance they were called Prodestant because they were protesting just like these ungodly women feel they also have to protest “not your Way Lord but MINE, MINE,MINE.”

Grow up , smell the coffee, be Nuns if you want to serve. As the Psalm says the Lord looks down on his lowly servant, we are all his lowly servants to do HIS WILL, NOT OURS.
There was plenty of women that followed Our Lord but he did not ask any of them “Follow Me”.:takethat:
 
ringil said:
Well that’s interesting.

To be honest. I trust the Church to do the right thing- that’s why I’m Catholic.

There are things I disagree with personally- like the Church’s stand on Contraception- but I still practice what the Church teaches. It’s about being obedient for me.

If the Church says women can’t be deacons- I’m fine with that.
If the Church says they can- well then OK.

I don’t have a big hat so I don’t get a vote. I’m cool with that. 🙂

I think it’s strange to read posts from some who claim to be the most “orthodox” or “hard-core Catholics” expressing strong opinions on what the Bishops and Pope “need to do.” In this way the super “traditionalists” begin to behave like the “dissidents” they so decry. 🤷
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👍
 
Oh, she can be a deaconess, even a priestess,perhaps even a bishop but she should not expect to be ordained in the Roman Catholic Church.

.
 
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