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Brendan
Guest
Dr. Peters is great. I had him as my Canon Law professor when I was in Diaconate formation.
FYI, he has also been selected as a Canon Law expert for the upcoming Bishop’s Synod in Rome.
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Cinette
Guest
*Lumen Gentium – the Dogmatic Constitution of the Catholic Church – paragraph 14:Well that’s interesting.
To be honest. I trust the Church to do the right thing- that’s why I’m Catholic.
There are things I disagree with personally- like the Church’s stand on Contraception- but I still practice what the Church teaches. It’s about being obedient for me.
If the Church says women can’t be deacons- I’m fine with that.
If the Church says they can- well then OK.
I don’t have a big hat so I don’t get a vote. I’m cool with that.
I think it’s strange to read posts from some who claim to be the most “orthodox” or “hard-core Catholics” expressing strong opinions on what the Bishops and Pope “need to do.” In this way the super “traditionalists” begin to behave like the “dissidents” they so decry.
To be in full communion with the Catholic Church one must accept all the teachings of the Church and all the means of sanctification in three main sources:
a) the profession of Faith
b) the sacraments
c) the ecclesiastical government of the Church
I love the Church and accept all teachings. I don’t think having Deaconesses is a problem and don’t expect the Church will object either.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
Deacons receive the sacrament of Holy Orders. Being such, they can become priest and I have known a couple, even permanent deacons who were allowed to become priest, after they were widowed.
So, obviously, women can not receive the sacrament of Holy Orders.
Jim
So, obviously, women can not receive the sacrament of Holy Orders.
Jim
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
I keep telling myself to get the book, “Inquisition,” by Dr Peters. Maybe I’ll do it this time.Dr. Peters is great. I had him as my Canon Law professor when I was in Diaconate formation.
FYI, he has also been selected as a Canon Law expert for the upcoming Bishop’s Synod in Rome.
Jim
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Cinette
Guest
*I am sure that I have read somewhere that there were deaconesses centuries ago? Does someone not know about this?
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Deaconesses were not ordained, but the wives of Deacons, who were ordained.*I am sure that I have read somewhere that there were deaconesses centuries ago? Does someone not know about this?
The general function of the deaconesses was to prepare the bodies of dead females for before burial.
Jim
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Cinette
Guest
*Thank you for the clarification. OK then deaconesses are out. Still, women have many important roles as teachers, administrators, in many different professions. I am sure most women would understand this but you do find those feminist types who really believe there are no differences between men and women.
Vive la difference!
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findingmyself08
Guest
If I remember correctly, deaconesses also assisted with the baptismal rite for a similar reason.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
I don’t recall that in the classes I had during discernment on the history of the diaconate, but it was a while ago.
Jim
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The_Scott
Guest
Makes sense. Baptisms in the early Church were performed completely naked, if I rember correctly.
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Semper_Zelare
Guest
I would object. And I would object if my Church didn’t object.
Yes, I did see your most recent post in which you said that “OK women Deacons are out”. But, I think I’m in line with the Vatican when I say: Not only are women Deacons wrong. But having discussions about women deacons is wrong.
Liberals always complain that the Vatican isn’t open to discussion. But, in the Vatican’s eyes there’s nothing to discuss. “Discussion” is just a codeword for change. And the Vatican doesn’t think anything should change… so why even talk about it?
**
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Cinette
Guest
I would object. And I would object if my Church didn’t object.
Yes, I did see your most recent post in which you said that “OK women Deacons are out”. But, I think I’m in line with the Vatican when I say: Not only are women Deacons wrong. But having discussions about women deacons is wrong.
Liberals always complain that the Vatican isn’t open to discussion. But, in the Vatican’s eyes there’s nothing to discuss. “Discussion” is just a codeword for change. And the Vatican doesn’t think anything should change… so why even talk about it?
**
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Brendan
Guest
No, but they were often done by pouring a lot more water than we do now. It would be a tad embarrasing for a baptism to turn into a wet peplos contest
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nordskoven
Guest
The war on women referenced by this pastor of the deaconess wannabe encompasses Catholics kicking about paying for hormonal sterilization for women. Oh. It doesn’t take two to tango? Huh. And this taxpayer-funded hormonal abortifacient for females and surgical sterilization for males isn’t ultimately a war against the baby, let alone a war against the dignity of woman and man? Really.
Pastor thinks women should be deaconettes because the establishment needs to honor women with liturgical roles. This pastor missed the concept of being an ALTER CHRISTUS where males-only (and only some males at that) are to carry the sin guilt of the world, the opprobrium for all the sin in the universe, imputed to and carried on the Second Adam’s shoulders in atoning for the “Sin of Adam.” When the Woman ate the forbidden fruit, nothing happened. Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, and sin and death came into the world. Open that shame up to females and there will as has been in the past more abuse of women as in ages when, pop culturally, blame was assigned to Eve for what was the “Sin of Adam.”
The priesthood, and the first ordination into the diaconate in preparation for the priesthood is, very strictly speaking, not an honor or high calling. It is forensically and positionally a despised role, to be perfectly accurate, with Peter serving as the Servant of Servants in emulating He Who is the Suffering Servant. God gave the Woman & Seed a separate grant of power and authority–crush Lucifer & Minions.
It is not called the “Sin of Adam & Eve.” Original Sin is the “Sin of Adam.” Males-only can atone for this. Today all candidates for the priesthood are first ordained as deacons and take on liturgical and teaching power and authority. Atoning for the “Sin of Adam” isn’t woman’s problem. Woman & Seed have a different role. Woman & Seed are to crush the Father of Lies & Murder’s noggin. So Satan wants to get at the baby first by sterilizing couples. Makes sense.
Thomas Aquinas argued his opponent’s position to help them out. Now, to make a really convincing case, pastor needs to revive baptism in the nude as well as the office of celibate women trained and disciplined to help female candidates. Where is my spray paint, I’ve got some Thomas-esque tagging to do…
NUDE BAPTISM OR BUST!
Pastor thinks women should be deaconettes because the establishment needs to honor women with liturgical roles. This pastor missed the concept of being an ALTER CHRISTUS where males-only (and only some males at that) are to carry the sin guilt of the world, the opprobrium for all the sin in the universe, imputed to and carried on the Second Adam’s shoulders in atoning for the “Sin of Adam.” When the Woman ate the forbidden fruit, nothing happened. Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, and sin and death came into the world. Open that shame up to females and there will as has been in the past more abuse of women as in ages when, pop culturally, blame was assigned to Eve for what was the “Sin of Adam.”
The priesthood, and the first ordination into the diaconate in preparation for the priesthood is, very strictly speaking, not an honor or high calling. It is forensically and positionally a despised role, to be perfectly accurate, with Peter serving as the Servant of Servants in emulating He Who is the Suffering Servant. God gave the Woman & Seed a separate grant of power and authority–crush Lucifer & Minions.
It is not called the “Sin of Adam & Eve.” Original Sin is the “Sin of Adam.” Males-only can atone for this. Today all candidates for the priesthood are first ordained as deacons and take on liturgical and teaching power and authority. Atoning for the “Sin of Adam” isn’t woman’s problem. Woman & Seed have a different role. Woman & Seed are to crush the Father of Lies & Murder’s noggin. So Satan wants to get at the baby first by sterilizing couples. Makes sense.
Thomas Aquinas argued his opponent’s position to help them out. Now, to make a really convincing case, pastor needs to revive baptism in the nude as well as the office of celibate women trained and disciplined to help female candidates. Where is my spray paint, I’ve got some Thomas-esque tagging to do…
NUDE BAPTISM OR BUST!
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ringil
Guest
I’m not giving an opinion on the OP but that’s not how Catholicism works you know.
That’s the thinking that put the SSPX in their situation.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
If the Pope decides that women can become deacons, I will accept it as being God’s will.
We can’t accept that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit only with the things we agree with, but not with the things we don’t agree with.
Either way, pray for the Pope’s guidance in this and all decisions he makes,
Jim
We can’t accept that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit only with the things we agree with, but not with the things we don’t agree with.
Either way, pray for the Pope’s guidance in this and all decisions he makes,
Jim
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ringil
Guest
I’m with you,
I’d certainly be very surprised if Rome allowed for Deaconesses and it would take some real geting used to but the Pope was the authority so. . . .
In any case in no way do I see this happening.
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Faithdancer
Guest
As we know, our current Pope isn’t a “progressive” when it comes to altering tradition-even one that was interrupted for centuries. Deo Gratias!
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Semper_Zelare
Guest
There are some things that the Church can’t and won’t change. And if it did, that would mean that it has fallen to the gates of Hell. The SSPX believes this already happened in Vatican II.
I don’t think this has happened. When I say, “If my Church didn’t object to women Deacons, then I would”… I say that with the confidence that the Church will always object to women Deacons.
If I went to Mass one day and there was a woman Deacon there, my faith in the Church would be shattered. I imagine most people on CAF feel the same way about women priests at least. But, I don’t think that day will come. I’m confident that in my lifetime the Church won’t change its stance on either issue.
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