Chicago Women trying to become Deacon

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dirt
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ValPal said:
It’s important to note that the past use of the word “deacon” is not the same as the current use. I’m no expert on the matter, but I’ve believe that people (at least some) in the past were referred to deacons/deaconesses were people without Holy Orders. Deacons today receive Holy Orders. Since woman cannot receive Holy Orders, a woman cannot be a deacon in the manner that is commonly used. It is certainly feasible that a woman can have some other important function in the Church, but it would be advisable not to refer to her as a deacon/deaconess to avoid confusion.
Click to expand...
Another person who posts without reading the article. If that were the case why would the Bishop write this article?
 
ValPal said:
It’s important to note that the past use of the word “deacon” is not the same as the current use. I’m no expert on the matter, but I’ve believe that people (at least some) in the past were referred to deacons/deaconesses were people without Holy Orders. Deacons today receive Holy Orders. Since woman cannot receive Holy Orders, a woman cannot be a deacon in the manner that is commonly used. It is certainly feasible that a woman can have some other important function in the Church, but it would be advisable not to refer to her as a deacon/deaconess to avoid confusion.
Click to expand...
The deaconess had a special place in the early Church to assist the presbyters and minister to women for certain issues.

Most Catholic scholars incline to the view that it is not always possible to draw a clear distinction in the early Church between deaconesses and widows (cherai). The Didascalia, Apostolic Constitutions and kindred documents undoubtedly recognize them as separate classes and they prefer the deaconess to the widow in the duty of assisting the clergy. Indeed, the Apostolic Constitutions (III, 6) enjoin the widows to be obedient to the deaconesses. It is probable also, as Funk maintains, that in the earlier period it was only a widow who could become a deaconess, but undoubtedly the strict limits of age, sixty years, which were at first prescribed for widows, were relaxed, at least at certain periods and in certain localities, in the case of those to be appointed to be deaconesses; for example, the Council of Trullo in 692 fixed the age at forty. Tertullian speaks with reprobation of a girl of twenty in viduatu ab episcopo collocatam, by which he seems to mean ordained as a deaconess. There can again be no question that the deaconesses in the fourth and fifth centuries had a distinct ecclesiastical standing, though there are traces of much variety of custom. According to the newly discovered “Testament of Our Lord” (c. 400), widows had a place in the sanctuary during the celebration of the liturgy, they stood at the anaphora behind the presbyters, they communicated after the deacons, and before the readers and subdeacons, and strange to say they had a charge of, or superintendence over the deaconesses. Further it is certain that a ritual was in use for the ordination of deaconesses by the laying on of hands which was closely modeled on the ritual for the ordination of a deacon. For example, the Apostolic Constitutions say:Concerning a deaconess, I, Bartholomew enjoin O Bishop, thou shalt lay thy hands upon her with all the Presbytery and the Deacons and the Deaconesses and thou shalt say: Eternal God, the Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the creator of man and woman, that didst fill with the Spirit Mary and Deborah, and Anna and Huldah, that didst not disdain that thine only begotten Son should be born of a woman; Thou that in the tabernacle of witness and in the temple didst appoint women guardians of thy holy gates: Do thou now look on this thy handmaid, who is appointed unto the office of a Deaconess and grant unto her the Holy Spirit, and cleanse her from all pollution of the flesh and of the spirit, that she may worthily accomplish the work committed unto her, to thy glory and the praise of thy Christ.
New Advent
 
po18guy said:
Have you investigated the more liberal wings of the Anglican and/or Episcopalian communities? I think that you will like what you find.
Click to expand...
That is quite insulting to your Catholic sister in Christ. 😦

Re-introducing the deaconess to the Catholic Church has nothing to do with liberlism. I think it would be a great benefit.
 
Mickey said:
That is quite insulting to your Catholic sister in Christ. 😦

Re-introducing the deaconess to the Catholic Church has nothing to do with liberlism. I think it would be a great benefit.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I don’t think having women deacons are on par with homosexual priests in the Episcopalian church.
 
Michelle9 said:
Did you even read the good Bishop’s article? I suggest you read it before giving your biased opinion.
Click to expand...
I think you should not assume. I read it and I disagree with him. There is no evidence of women being ordained.
The sacrament of holy orders is conferred in three ranks of clergy: bishops, priests, and deacons.
Click to expand...
[BASIC NORMS FOR THE FORMATION
OF PERMANENT DEACONS

DIRECTORY FOR THE MINISTRY AND LIFE
OF PERMANENT DEACONS](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...educ_doc_19980331_directorium-diaconi_en.html)

What are the bishops motives? I don’t know but I do know he is not in line with Rome.
 
Mickey said:
That is quite insulting to your Catholic sister in Christ. 😦

Re-introducing the deaconess to the Catholic Church has nothing to do with liberlism. I think it would be a great benefit.
Click to expand...
What benefit?
 
adrift said:
I think you should not assume. I read it and I disagree with him. There is no evidence of women being ordained.

[BASIC NORMS FOR THE FORMATION
OF PERMANENT DEACONS

DIRECTORY FOR THE MINISTRY AND LIFE
OF PERMANENT DEACONS](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...educ_doc_19980331_directorium-diaconi_en.html)

What are the bishops motives? I don’t know but I do know he is not in line with Rome.
Click to expand...
I guess you know more Catechism then this Bishop. What is about this topic that is so threatening?
 
Michelle9 said:
Another person who posts without reading the article.
Click to expand...
And I just read the article. Isn’t it amazing how I got all my facts straight anyway? 🙂

Fact is, woman cannot be become deacons in the current sense, that being they receive Holy Orders as defined. In order for that to be the case, it would mean the Church is completely wrong on a matter of faith, thus infallibility gets thrown out the window.

The article mentions the laying of hands. We don’t know what that means. The laying of hands is not exclusive to Holy Orders.
If that were the case why would the Bishop write this article?
Click to expand...
Beats me, maybe he wants to see woman serve a greater role in the Church. But regardless, the Bishop is not the Pope.
 
ValPal said:
And I just read the article. Isn’t it amazing how I got all my facts straight anyway? 🙂

Fact is, woman cannot be become deacons in the current sense, that being they receive Holy Orders as defined. In order for that to be the case, it would mean the Church is completely wrong on a matter of faith, thus infallibility gets thrown out the window.

The article mentions the laying of hands. We don’t know what that means. The laying of hands is not exclusive to Holy Orders.

Beats me, maybe he wants to see woman serve a greater role in the Church. But regardless, the Bishop is not the Pope.
Click to expand...
Yes unfortunately he is not the Pope. It is really a shame he isn’t.
 
adrift said:
What benefit?
Click to expand...
In the early Church, the good works that Deaconesses embraced included much of what is prayed in the liturgical beatitudes; visiting the sick, helping with baptisms, making prosfora and placing the seal upon them or to whatever extent the Church determines good to build up the body of Christ.
 
O Eternal God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator of man and of woman, who replenished with the Spirit Miriam, and Deborah, and Anna, and Huldah; who did not disdain that your only-begotten Son should be born of a woman; who also in the tabernacle of the testimony, and in the temple, did ordain women to be keepers of your holy gates - look down now upon this your servant who is to be ordained to the office of a deaconess, and grant her your Holy Spirit, that she may worthily discharge the work which is committed to her to your glory, and the praise of your Christ, with whom glory and adoration be to you and the Holy Spirit for ever. Amen."

-Apostolic Constitutions, No. 8 (late fourth century)
 
Mickey said:
In the early Church, the good works that Deaconesses embraced included much of what is prayed in the liturgical beatitudes; visiting the sick, helping with baptisms, making prosfora and placing the seal upon them or to whatever extent the Church determines good to build up the body of Christ.
Click to expand...
And this isn’t being done today? When you cite helping with baptism that was when it was done without cloths. Would that service really be needed today or would it be different?
 
Michelle9 said:
Yes unfortunately he is not the Pope. It is really a shame he isn’t.
Click to expand...
It depends on your perspective. If the Church is wrong on an infallible matter, then the entire faith and moral foundation of the Church goes with it. If the Church changes Her position on Holy Orders, it won’t matter anyway, because there won’t be any more Church.
 
Michelle9 said:
I feel a call to the Church to take a greater role but I don’t want to be a nun. Deacons have this option.
Click to expand...
Why do you need Holy Orders to take a greater role? Visit the sick in hospitals, visit prisons, work at a homeless shelter. There are many things you can do that allow you to play a greater role but don’t require ordination.

A permanent deacon is ordained to service. You can do that without having to change the rules of the Church to fit the calling you feel.

Peace

Tim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top