Chicago Women trying to become Deacon

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Semper_Zelare said:
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If I went to Mass one day and there was a woman Deacon there, my faith in the Church would be shattered. I imagine most people on CAF feel the same way about women priests at least. But, I don’t think that day will come. I’m confident that in my lifetime the Church won’t change its stance on either issue.
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Even if the Vatican approved women deacons, your faith would be shattered?

Jim
 
There seems to be several issues here.
  1. Some have stated that women cannot be Deacons because they would be ordained and only men can be ordained. The Church has stated that women cannot be ordained to the priesthood. Nothing has come out of Rome stating that it is impossible for women to be ordained as Deacon.
  2. Several have stated that the women mentioned were wives of the Deacons. 1 Timothy 3:8-11 states: (8) Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, (9) holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. (10) Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. (11) WOMEN, similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything.*
The footnote to verse 11 on WOMEN states: * [3:11] Women: this seems to refer to women deacons but may possibly mean wives of deacons. The former is preferred because the word is used absolutely; if deacons’ wives were meant, a possessive “their” would be expected. Moreover, they are also introduced by the word “similarly,” as in 1 Tm 3:8; this parallel suggests that they too exercised ecclesiastical functions. (This is found on the Bishop’s Website for the Bible. usccb.org/bible/1timothy/3#62003011-1
  1. According to Dr. Macy’s study of ancient liturgical texts, women were ordained, wore a stole, preached, and functioned in every way that the male deacons did. No one has argued against his historical studies.
  2. It seems that the strongest argument against ordaining women to the Diaconate is the fear of the “slippery slope.” If women can be ordained as Deacons, they may want to become priests. Though, I’m not sure that that is a good reason to not ordain women to the diaconate. (If a married man’s wife dies and the man becomes a priest, he cannot become a Bishop. So, should we not ordain these men in these situations because they might want to become a Bishop? It doesn’t make sense to me)
 
Semper_Zelare said:
There are some things that the Church can’t and won’t change. And if it did, that would mean that it has fallen to the gates of Hell. The SSPX believes this already happened in Vatican II.

I don’t think this has happened. When I say, “If my Church didn’t object to women Deacons, then I would”… I say that with the confidence that the Church will always object to women Deacons.

If I went to Mass one day and there was a woman Deacon there, my faith in the Church would be shattered. I imagine most people on CAF feel the same way about women priests at least. But, I don’t think that day will come. I’m confident that in my lifetime the Church won’t change its stance on either issue.
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Well, I would say that the Church will NOT ever ordain women to the Priesthood as this seems to have been settled.

I thought that this also applied to women Deacons as they are clerics.

Apparently, it’s not as settled as I thought. . . . . Still, I REALLY can’t see the Church allowing women Deacons at least not any time remotely soon.

But IF they did, then I would accept it as I am Catholic and it is not my place to question the Church. Otherwise, I would join a Protestant Church who tend to give more freedom to their believers.

BTW, the SSPX was objectively wrong in their decision to leave full Communion. God willing they will return to full communion but this would take some real “swallowing of their pride”.
 
ringil said:
Apparently, it’s not as settled as I thought. . . . . Still, I REALLY can’t see the Church allowing women Deacons at least not any time remotely soon.

But IF they did, then I would accept it as I am Catholic and it is not my place to question the Church. Otherwise, I would join a Protestant Church who tend to give more freedom to their believers.

BTW, the SSPX was objectively wrong in their decision to leave full Communion. God willing they will return to full communion but this would take some real “swallowing of their pride”.
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If the Catholic Church approved women Deacons, I’m not saying I’d go the way of SSPX. I’m saying I’d go the way of Anglo-Catholics in the fold of the Anglican Church. I would make it a point to find parishes where a woman Deacon would NEVER be found.

It’s really the same as people who currently avoid parishes that have female altar servers like the plague. Yes, girls are fully allowed to be altar servers. Personally, this doesn’t make me happy. But, I’m not going to leave a parish bc of it. However, some people do leave parishes because of it. And there are parishes they go to where the priest forbids girls from being altar servers.

I would like to think I’d never become Protestant. But, those opposed to women ordination in Anglicanism provide a pretty good model for what I’d do if the Catholic Church approved women Deacons— I’d stay Catholic, and stay close to the most Orthodox, Traditionalist-minded priest I knew.

BTW,
I don’t support the SSPX. I pray at the end of every Rosary that Pope Benedict will be successful in bringing them back into Full Communion.
 
If the catholic Church were to approve the ordination of women as deacons, I would be utterly confused with my sacramental theology in regard to the ontological change that comes from the Holy Orders.
 
Let’s not panic. The Church isn’t about to allow women to be ordained as deacons.

Perhaps they’ll open up a sub ministry and call them deaconesses, but they will not receive Holy Orders, and their ministry will not be the same as a deacon.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Let’s not panic. The Church isn’t about to allow women to be ordained as deacons.

Perhaps they’ll open up a sub ministry and call them deaconesses, but they will not receive Holy Orders, and their ministry will not be the same as a deacon.

Jim
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This would be more in line with the historical office as well. 👍
 
JimR-OCDS said:
If the Pope decides that women can become deacons, I will accept it as being God’s will.

We can’t accept that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit only with the things we agree with, but not with the things we don’t agree with.

Either way, pray for the Pope’s guidance in this and all decisions he makes,

Jim
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Is a woman being ordained a Deacon a decision the Pope CAN make? Is that decision just a practice subject to change or part of the original deposit of Christian truth that is not subject to change and therefore not subject to “decisions” by the Pope as he is prevented from teaching error?
I might be in error, but my understanding is that women not being ordained is part of the original deposit of Christian Truth not subject to change. Please correct me if I am wrong and God bless.
 
Semper_Zelare said:
There are some things that the Church can’t and won’t change. And if it did, that would mean that it has fallen to the gates of Hell. The SSPX believes this already happened in Vatican II.

I don’t think this has happened. When I say, “If my Church didn’t object to women Deacons, then I would”… I say that with the confidence that the Church will always object to women Deacons.

If I went to Mass one day and there was a woman Deacon there, my faith in the Church would be shattered. I imagine most people on CAF feel the same way about women priests at least. But, I don’t think that day will come. I’m confident that in my lifetime the Church won’t change its stance on either issue.
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“my faith in the Church would be shattered”? Have faith in God.

Peace,
Ed
 
The ordindation of a women deacon would contradict JP II statement that this question was out of our hands.
It would mean that an anti-pope was elected and would split the church.
I for one would either leave or die fighting.
 
If you ordain a woman a deacon you make as well have a woman Pope. That’s where it leads to, as the protestants have found out.

One good thing: their ‘ordaining’ homosexuals and women lets orthodox Catholics know the jig is up with pseudo-ecumenism. We’re not dealing with Christians any more.
 
The article you quoted is nothing more than conjectured dialogue from hopefuls within the Church wanting woman priests. It will never happen in the Catholic Church and clearly has been already defined. Case closed.
 
centurionguard said:
The article you quoted is nothing more than conjectured dialogue from hopefuls within the Church wanting woman priests. It will never happen in the Catholic Church and clearly has been already defined. Case closed.
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It is about the diaconate…not the priesthood. It is not out of the question that some day we may see women deacons in the Catholic Church again.
 
Mickey said:
It is about the diaconate…not the priesthood. It is not out of the question that some day we may see women deacons in the Catholic Church again.
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What do you think Deacons are ordained to if not the priesthood?

It is interesting that the article is dated Oct 1 2012
 
adrift said:
What do you think Deacons are ordained to if not the priesthood?
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They are not. Permanent deacons have no desire to become priests.

This issue was brought up by a Bishop And a male. How enlightened of him! He must be commended!

Articles usually come out before the date. Like People magazine has a date of say Oct.15 but the articles are usually from Oct. 1.
 
Mickey said:
It is about the diaconate…not the priesthood. It is not out of the question that some day we may see women deacons in the Catholic Church again.
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Thank you. If the case were closed this Bishop wouldn’t bother writing an article about it.
 
Mickey said:
It is about the diaconate…not the priesthood. It is not out of the question that some day we may see women deacons in the Catholic Church again.
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It’s important to note that the past use of the word “deacon” is not the same as the current use. I’m no expert on the matter, but I’ve believe that people (at least some) in the past were referred to deacons/deaconesses were people without Holy Orders. Deacons today receive Holy Orders. Since woman cannot receive Holy Orders, a woman cannot be a deacon in the manner that is commonly used. It is certainly feasible that a woman can have some other important function in the Church, but it would be advisable not to refer to her as a deacon/deaconess to avoid confusion.
 
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