Chief Rabbinate of Israel break ties to Vatican

[chosen_people]

Thank God for Pope Benedict XVI. I hope he continues to undo some of the egregious mistakes launched under JP2’s disastrous pontificate. Rabbinic Judaism is one of many bridges to hell.

I’d like to take a small simple example of how “Rabbinic Judaism is one of the many bridges to hell”

And God created man in His own image. In the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Beraishit Genisis ]1;27

This passage is so familiar to us that perhaps we tend to read it without fully understanding its implications. However, thousands of years of reflection have led to many insights and raised various ideas that can be mined from the text.

One of the things that the rabbis understood was that, if all of mankind started from one human being, then underneath all the differences, all people are equal. No human being can plead superiority to another on the grounds of descent as we all come from the same father-figure. Moreover the fact that we are all made, according to this verse, in the image of God, makes it clear that each human being has an innate value that no other person should take away lightly. Human beings may differ from each other, but everyone has the same inherent value, all being made by, and in the spirit of, God.

The best formulation of this viewpoint is found in the tractate Sanhedrin of the great rabbinic work, the Mishnah. Here we find the following statement:

A single man was created in the world to teach that if any man destroys a single soul, Scripture charges him as though he has destroyed a whole world; and if any man saves alive a single soul, Scripture charges him as though he has saved a whole world. Again [a single man was created] for the sake of peace among mankind, that none should say to his fellow “My father was greater than your father”… Again [a single man was created] to proclaim the greatness of God, for a man stamps many coins with the one seal and they are all like one another, but God has stamped every man with the seal of the first man, yet not one of them is like his fellow.

Tractate Sanhedrin 4:5

 

[pnewton]

Another bridge built by Pope John Paul II built, that Pope Benedict has burned.

God have mercy on us.

Jim

The bridge was not burned from Rome, but rather Jeruesalem. By using the logic that has been leveled against the Catholic Church by this Rabbi and others, he, and all Jews by extention, must be rabidly anti-Catholic.

Twenty years from now, well most likely be praying to Saint John Paul II. Can’t say the same for Pope Benedict.

How many times have I heard posters like you warn traditionalists againts judging the Holy Father. You are not Pope Benedict’s authority. He is yours. Best remember that.

 

[Kaninchen]

The bridge was not burned from Rome, but rather Jeruesalem. By using the logic that has been leveled against the Catholic Church by this Rabbi and others, he, and all Jews by extention, must be rabidly anti-Catholic.

Perhaps you can point out the rabbinical rabidly anti-Catholic statements for us?

 

[jimmy]

All that’s being said is that, in the circumstances, it’s difficult to see how a particular set of conversations can be continued - how is that ‘arrogant’?

Of course the Catholic Church has every right to run itself just as it wants but that has consequences (both intended and unintended) and other people also have the right to deal with those consequences as they see fit - which may include not wanting to have particular conversations.

It seems like the Rabbi is trying to bully the Vatican into acting how he wants them to act. It is arrogance.

 

[Kaninchen]

It seems like the Rabbi is trying to bully the Vatican into acting how he wants them to act. It is arrogance.

Canceling a meeting is bullying?

 

[MrDickerson]

Twenty years from now, well most likely be praying to Saint John Paul II. Can’t say the same for Pope Benedict.

Jim

Who will be praying to “Saint” John Paul II?? NOT ME!

 

[MrDickerson]

Please elaborate

Simple–it rejects Jesus Christ. There is no other name under heaven given among men–other than JESUS CHRIST–whereby we can be saved.

 

[cathguy]

Canceling a meeting is bullying?

Certainly not.

I think the thoughtful Catholic would put it this way.

1. The Pope did a relatively poor job announcing the lifting of these excommunications. There were better ways to go about it.
2. That said, lifting the excommunications may HELP us fight anti-semitism as opposed to hurting us.

Why?

Look at what has already happened.

1. The Pope lifted the excommunications and already Bishop Fellay has silenced the lunatic Williamson. That is a good thing.
2. The SSPX are going to have to deal with the fact that the Pope has now categorically condemned anti-semitism and holocaust denial. If they want back in, they are going to have to show humility.
3. This change WILL effect those drawn to the SSPX.

The argument I am trying to make here is that lifting the excommunications will help the Pope fight antisemitism as opposed to stoking it.

In light of this I think the German Rabbis’ actions are unfortunate. As someone who spends a portion of his time fighting anti-semitism and hate, it is sad to see the Rabbis giving fuel to the anti-semitic fire by taking this action.

 

[cathguy]

The SSPX in general, are problematic for the Jews and Roman Catholics as well.

I think it was a bad decision, much like some of his other decisions.

Jim

I don’t agree with this post at all.

1. The Pope’s lifting the excommunications will help him fight anti-semitism more, rather than less, effectively.
2. The Pope has a done a masterful job. Consider Regensberg and the Motu Proprio as two prime examples.
3. You defend John Paul II to the teeth. This is the man who governed the Church through one of Her greatest declines in history.

 

[MrDickerson]

1. You defend John Paul II to the teeth. This is the man who governed the Church through one of Her greatest declines in history.

No kidding! Although I think the term “governed the Church” isn’t quite accurate when it comes to JP II.

 

[7_Sorrows]

i did not know much about bishop richard williamson, so i took some time to learn something before commenting on this thread.
he seems to be a controversial figure and very much a traditionalist and critical of both JPII and Pope Benedict XVI.
i don’t know how serious it is when the Chief Rabbinate of Israel break ties to the Vatican, but I can understand their taking offense at what this Bishop has said about the Holocaust.

i know the parable of the lost sheep and i guess the Pope is happy to welcome back bishop williamson, and i guess we will have to wait to see how the Pope can mend the relationship with the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.

 

[Kaninchen]

In light of this I think the German Rabbis’ actions are unfortunate. As someone who spends a portion of his time fighting anti-semitism and hate, it is sad to see the Rabbis giving fuel to the anti-semitic fire by taking this action.

It was Israeli rabbis in this case.

Antisemitism isn’t a Jewish problem, it’s a non-Jewish problem - historically, we’ve just had to live with the consequences, it’s the consequences that are a Jewish problem.

What has been said is that it’s not possible, in the current circumstances, to hold a particular meeting - the reaction to this, I would suggest, is very revealing. Not holding a meeting has been transformed in the minds of non SSPX supporters, never mind SSPX supporters, into ‘Jewish demands’, ‘Jewish arrogance’ and so on - Catholics like yourself and many, many others who also find the remnants of historical prejudices a dreadful legacy, should find that instructive - as instructive as your conversations elsewhere with defenders of Williamson.

The Pope is bringing the SSPX back into the fold and it’s for Catholics to sort out - we just have to deal with the consequences. We don’t have to do that silently and with a gracious smile, however.

 

[pnewton]

Perhaps you can point out the rabbinical rabidly anti-Catholic statements for us?

He made none. That is the point. But neither has the Holy Father. This Rabbi should use the same standard he wishes others to live by. It is he that assumes anti-Semetism under every rock. If he wasn’t Jewish and it wasn’t politically incorrect, we would call the backlash to the the lifting of these excommunications paranoia. Well, this Rabbi can pick up his football and go home and pout if he wants. Perhaps one day he will see his childish act for what it is.

 

[Kaninchen]

He made none. That is the point. But neither has the Holy Father.

I wouldn’t expect the Pope to make rabidly anti-Catholic statements.

This Rabbi should use the same standard he wishes others to live by.

Perhaps you might explain exactly how he has not.

It is he that assumes anti-Semetism under every rock.

No, just rocks like Williamson.

 

[7_Sorrows]

He made none. That is the point. But neither has the Holy Father. This Rabbi should use the same standard he wishes others to live by. It is he that assumes anti-Semetism under every rock. If he wasn’t Jewish and it wasn’t politically incorrect, we would call the backlash to the the lifting of these excommunications paranoia. Well, this Rabbi can pick up his football and go home and pout if he wants. Perhaps one day he will see his childish act for what it is.

is the chief rabbinate, one rabbi or a group of rabbi (s)? i think anytime a catholic or a christian denies the Holocaust is serious.
i don’t see the reaction as childish at all. they have worked so hard to mend relationships between the Catholic church and Jews and, to me, what this bishop said is a setback. hopefully, once the media attention died down, the bridge can be constructed again. it is unfortunate that this bishop made these remarks during the interview.

 

[chosen_people]

Rabbinic Judaism is one of many bridges to hell. (PLEASE ELABORATE C.P.)
Simple–it rejects Jesus Christ. There is no other name under heaven given among men–other than JESUS CHRIST–whereby we can be saved.

So basically we have over five billion people people who reject the notion that Yehoshua bar Yosef was god incarnate on earth and some fourteen million of them are Jews or a fraction of one per cent of the world population that rejects your beliefs concerning this man. Please list which of the remaining five billion or so people and their religions are also bridges to hell.

Are the Jews in league with Satan? This is what Jews have been doing in the last two hundred years when Christians finally let them begin to integrate into general society:

jinfo.org/index.html

Is it true that these things are the work of the devil? If so, shouldn’t good Christians like yourself avoid having anything to do with them? What do these things say about the Jews?

 

[pnewton]

i don’t see the reaction as childish at all. they have worked so hard to mend relationships between the Catholic church and Jews and, to me, what this bishop said is a setback.

The remark by this bishop, who was excommunicate at the time, was not the cause of this break, or it would have happened at the time or the statement. The immediate cause was the lifting of the excommunications, and act of mercy, which I guess is a foreign concept to Rabbi’s. The bridge may be rebuilt, and should. No doubt the Vatican will be responsible for this task. But make no mistake, this break in ties was one-sided. The Vatican did not withdraw ties.

 

[chosen_people]

The remark by this bishop, who was excommunicate at the time, was not the cause of this break, or it would have happened at the time or the statement. The immediate cause was the lifting of the excommunications, and act of mercy, which I guess is a foreign concept to Rabbi’s. The bridge may be rebuilt, and should. No doubt the Vatican will be responsible for this task. But make no mistake, this break in ties was one-sided. The Vatican did not withdraw ties.

Indeed there is nothing like an act of mercy to rile the Jew,

 

[pnewton]

Indeed there is nothing like an act of mercy to rile the Jew,

It sure upset Chief Rabbinate Director-General Oded Weiner enough to break off official ties with the Vatican indefinitely.

 

[Corki]

The bridge may be rebuilt, and should. No doubt the Vatican will be responsible for this task. But make no mistake, this break in ties was one-sided. The Vatican did not withdraw ties.

Good point.

The bridge building is not a single event, it is a process with starts and stops. Sometimes it must feel like two steps forward and one step back.

But I think it is important to remember that the Vatican, especially the Pope, is called to be a healer of rifts but also to be a leader for the Church. This means working on many relationships at the same time for the good of the Church. The Vatican has been making progress with the “bridges” with the Orthodox, the Anglicans (at least the TAC), the Muslims, and internal mending with the SSPX, the Charismatics, the NeoCatechumanate, etc.

The Vatican cannot succeed at any of this if it takes the position of always favoring one group outside the Church, the Jews in this discussion. While the “feelings” of others are important, the biggest and most pressing issue is whether this if for the long term good of the Church and the faithful within Her.

For those Jews on this thread, were you equally upset when the Pope’s comments upset the Muslims?