Child Abuse Royal Commission Calls for Dozens of Law Changes

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abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/royal-commission-into-child-sexual-abuse-recommendations/8804040

Clergy who fail to report information about child sexual abuse heard during confession would face criminal charges under a series of sweeping changes to the criminal justice system recommended in a new report.
Well for one, how could something said in a confession even be proved. It’s just a he-said she-said.

Secondly, it is interesting how governments never seem to be bothered by confidentiality between patients and doctors or defendants and lawyers, or other secular institutions. I don’t see them rushing to make it a criminal offense for a lawyer to refuse to make a report when his client admits to a crime.
 
abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/royal-commission-into-child-sexual-abuse-recommendations/8804040

Clergy who fail to report information about child sexual abuse heard during confession would face criminal charges under a series of sweeping changes to the criminal justice system recommended in a new report.
This, of course, is impossible. Naturally, secular authority does not recognize any power higher than itself, such as God. This is an attack, not on child abuse, but on the Church. Especially in Australia, which is still quite anti-Catholic. As evil as it is, it is nothing new.

In the US, there are privileges in the law guaranteeing confidentiality, such as doctor/patient, husband/wife, Priest/penitent - but in Oz, there may not be such protections. Anyway, who is going to know if something is confessed in the first place? Being a victim is not confessory material. What is their point, other than to impose secular authority on the Church?
 
Well for one, how could something said in a confession even be proved. It’s just a he-said she-said.
No, it is not priest-said-penitent-said. That is the whole point. The penitent can tell anyone they please what they said but the seal is such that the confessor can make absolutely no comment about anything that was said or things that were not said in this context.
 
I started this thread curiousmike.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1061397

The Melbourne Archbishop has made a prelim comment.
I imagine the legalities of the whole thing will be worked out and then there will be an official statement.

We had a letter from our Bishop yesterday. About other issues to do with measures to help abuse survivors. Probably he will write us about this for next Sunday. It’s kind of gutting.
 
A penitent would tell no-one except for the face that they know, under the seal of confession, their admission will get no further - hence their confession.

Hence IF, which is impossible, a secular law could be enforced that a priest had to disclose a criminal confession then NO-ONE would ever confess to any legal crime ever again - why would they, and then face prosecution? 🤷

Ridiculous and completely unenforceable, aside from the fact it will never, ever happen due to the Church’s rules for confession.

IMO, it is just another CC bashing tool to insinuate that the CC is in some way being a enabler for criminals - which of course is ludicrous, as if the CC had to report all criminal confessions to law enforcement - then no crimes would ever be confessed!
 
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Roseeurekacross:
I started this thread curiousmike.
Just one minute before me! 😃 :eek:

I think the Royal Commission also needs to focus on how to prevent abuse occurring in secular institutions going forward - as religious institutions are nowhere near as prevalents as they once were.

Unfortunately, people are using these recommendations today against us in the debacle over SSM, claiming that Christians cannot be trusted due to their “sketchy track record.” I guess we must just stand by the Rock (Jesus Christ and His Church) and weather this storm.
 
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pepipop:
IMO, it is just another CC bashing tool to insinuate that the CC is in some way being a enabler for criminals - which of course is ludicrous, as if the CC had to report all criminal confessions to law enforcement - then no crimes would ever be confessed!
Some of the comments you hear people make insinuate that somehow visiting the Confession enables one to continue the Abuse under the pretense of forgiveness.

Naturally, Confession does not work like that - the whole point is turning from sin, and all things that lead to it. Of course we are weak, and fall again - but we don’t make it a deliberate effort to fall again, it defeats the whole idea of being forgiven (and saying sorry).
 
Of course, this is simply an attack on the Church, an attempt to drive it out of Australia. Catholics and any believe in religious freedom must resist. Question every political candidate, for every office, if he/she supports religious freedom for the Church. Relentlessly oppose those who do not.
 
This is just a proposal. I seriously doubt that Australia is ready to make the Catholic faith illegal to practice, which is what this law does. I said on another thread that lawyers make poor doctors. They also make poor theologians as this rather stupid statement reveals; “We can no longer think about sexual offending against children as some kind of forgivable sin.”
 
It is a difficult dilemma: Where there is any failure to protect the innocent and victims, in leaving the offender free to potentially commit more crimes, silence seems abominable to us. This dilemma must hang heavily upon confessors.

Canon 983.1 of the Code of Canon Law,states, “…It is a crime for a confessor in any way to betray a penitent by word or in any other manner or for any reason” (No. 2490)
If a priest violates the seal of confession, according to the Code of Canon Law (No. 1388.1) states, “A confessor who directly violates the seal of confession incurs an automatic excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; if he does so only indirectly, he is to be punished in accord with the seriousness of the offense.”

The Fourth Lateran Council (1215) decreed, “Let the confessor take absolute care not to betray the sinner through word or sign, or in any other way whatsoever. In case he needs expert advice he may seek it without, however, in any way indicating the person. For we decree that he who presumes to reveal a sin which has been manifested to him in the tribunal of penance is not only to be deposed from the priestly office, but also to be consigned to a closed monastery for perpetual penance.”

May the Holy Spirit guide and protect
 
Well for one, how could something said in a confession even be proved. It’s just a he-said she-said.

Secondly, it is interesting how governments never seem to be bothered by confidentiality between patients and doctors or defendants and lawyers, or other secular institutions. I don’t see them rushing to make it a criminal offense for a lawyer to refuse to make a report when his client admits to a crime.
I don’t know about Australia, but there actually are exceptions for doctors and lawyers in the states. It comes up a lot in mental health treatment, because if a therapist knows about child abuse (future or likely future, not past), they are legally mandated to report it to the authorities. Same with lawyers - confidentiality applies to past crimes, but if the client tells the lawyer that they intend to commit certain crimes, the lawyer has to report it.
 
The latest

abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/how-the-royal-commission-will-keep-your-child-safe/8804780

And

abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/royal-commission-into-child-sexual-abuse-recommendations/8804040

The Catholic Church has signalled it will oppose any move to force priests to report details of child sexual abuse received during confession, despite calls from the royal commission to make it a legal requirement.

Clergy could face tough choice: report

The Catholic Church’s Trust Justice and Healing Council had made a submission to the commission, arguing that religious confession should remain a privileged communication under Australian law.
It said requiring clergy to disclose the contents of confession would interfere with a person’s private communication with God, and the Catholic Church in Australia did not have the power to interfere with the “seal of confession”.
 
This, of course, is impossible. Naturally, secular authority does not recognize any power higher than itself, such as God. This is an attack, not on child abuse, but on the Church. Especially in Australia, which is still quite anti-Catholic. As evil as it is, it is nothing new.

In the US, there are privileges in the law guaranteeing confidentiality, such as doctor/patient, husband/wife, Priest/penitent - but in Oz, there may not be such protections. Anyway, who is going to know if something is confessed in the first place? Being a victim is not confessory material. What is their point, other than to impose secular authority on the Church?
As a lifelong Australian ithas not been my experience that my nation is anti-Catholic, however, the concern would is more a matter of concealing a crime against children, against women, which is of serious concern to rationalist, humanists, as well as people of faith, to all people of conscience.
And yes, we do have those protections you mention in Australia, 🙂

The Royal Commission was set up, not because of anti-Catholicism, but because the victims voices rose high enough to be heard, and evidence became overwhelming as it has done in other countries, for instance in Ireland and in some American dioceses. The Royal Commission has no only addressed clerical abuse in the Catholic Church but also in Protestant Churches
A priest once said to me in anguish, "Priests aren’t accountable enough, but he has lived to see those who offend to become more accountable.

Yes, I am sad about that, but also sad that it was ever necessary, ever a reality…but priests too are very human.

Predators whose crimes are concealed often go on to offend others, in fact sometimes many, destroying innocence and lives, and destroying the faith of the victims and their families, sometimes leading to suicide. My own brother became an alcoholic due to abuse of a religious, a friend’s son suicided after priest abuse. A cousin lost her faith. These are a few of the many with similar outcomes, and misplaced abuse guilt, relationship difficulties. The toll is shocking.
The sin of abuse against innocents, against girls, boys, women, has the capacity, and does, destroy faith in others as in God, because some men of God acted entirely contrary to God’s teaching and the Church.

Abuse is a physical, emotional psychological, as well as a SPIRITUAL offense that has the capacity to destroy souls.
That the humanist mind as well as the people of faith, would be stunned that such heinous crimes could be concealed for so long, with offenders shuffled from place to place, is understandable.

For all good priests this must have been and must be a cause of deep grief.
The most high profile of our Australian Catholic churchman is accused of historical crimes, and God only knows the truth there, I pray for him fervently that if the accusations are false it will be proven, but there are many victims of past abuse and in the end their voices have combined to result in a royal commission, and rightly so.

I also find it alarming and confusing that Church canon may be held to account, but I also have great compassion for those sinned against.

In Matthew 16 verses 5-6 Jesus said: 5And whoever welcomes a little child like this in My name welcomes Me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. "

I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide all that happens from here.
May God bless the Church keeping her obedient to His Spirit.
May God bless our priests and Religious with holiness,
may God protect and bless us all,
and heal the wounded amongst us and reunite those now separated from us.
 
The latest

abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/how-the-royal-commission-will-keep-your-child-safe/8804780

And

abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/royal-commission-into-child-sexual-abuse-recommendations/8804040

The Catholic Church has signalled it will oppose any move to force priests to report details of child sexual abuse received during confession, despite calls from the royal commission to make it a legal requirement.

Clergy could face tough choice: report

The Catholic Church’s Trust Justice and Healing Council had made a submission to the commission, arguing that religious confession should remain a privileged communication under Australian law.
It said requiring clergy to disclose the contents of confession would interfere with a person’s private communication with God, and the Catholic Church in Australia did not have the power to interfere with the “seal of confession”.
Let them make it a legal requirement then,:rolleyes: no-one on planet earth can ever prove that a penitent confessed to the crime, in confession, or that a priest did not report it to the police.

Either way, IF the CC ever did state *(which will never happen) *it would report such crimes to police, then the penitents would not confess them in the first place. They may as well go to the police station and hand themselves in. 🤷
 
Catholic Church spokesperson Francis Sullivan from the Truth Justice and Healing Council agrees with the government ‘Royal’ Commission that, yes, priests would have to abide by new mandatory reporting laws.

Yep. That’s what he said.
:eek:
 
Catholic Church spokesperson Francis Sullivan from the Truth Justice and Healing Council agrees with the government ‘Royal’ Commission that, yes, priests would have to abide by new mandatory reporting laws.

Yep. That’s what he said.
:eek:
From what I can gather that organisation has absolutely no authority to make decisions, on behalf of the Catholic Church, in relation to its’ doctrines.

It really beggars belief that the most obvious fact is, that no-one will ever confess a child sex abuse case again - if such legislation was implemented. It’s a no-win situation. It would be hoped, that those who did confess, in the past, were helped never to do the crime again, to make amends, get medical treatment and/or to report themselves to the police.

By disallowing all such individuals to confess, they could continue on their path for even longer with more children being damaged.

When the two leadership groups of the Catholic Church in Australia, the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference and Catholic Religious Australia, set up the Truth Justice and Healing Council in December 2012 they did so knowing the Royal Commission into institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse would reveal enormous and confronting challenges.
 
Parents who don’t report child sexual abuse to the police should be prosecuted.

…one can only speculate as to the real reason why a parent would NOT want their sexually abused child talking to trained police psychologists about where the bad man touched them. 🤷
 
This is a report of what ifs and what would be required.

abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/breaking-the-seal-of-confession-could-pit-church-against-state/8805126

You know , I never thought being Catholic would place me in counter culture or totally in support of going against something like this.
Or that my placid quiet free western society would try this on.

Maybe it’s time for the counter culture of Catholics to rise up.

Abuse is abhorrent, what happened is abhorrent, but to attack Priests this way.

Risdale is up for more court this week, this thing is going to grow cultural teeth.
 
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