China owes ‘apology and compensation’ for coronavirus, says cardinal

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FiveLinden said:
Every new virus infecting people enters the human population somewhere. The ‘why in Wuhan’ question is meaningless. Would you have preferred China to respond like Italy?
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Don’t change the subject. Red China has lied to the world and to their own suffering people. They lied how the virus could spread. They imprisoned and forced confession out of the Chinese doctor who informed the world of the outbreak—he subsequently died. There is now another female Chinese doctor who spoke out—now mysteriously disappeared. Chinese people in China and abroad do not believe a word coming out of Red China.

Don’t be naive, and inadvertently help Red China to spread its propaganda and lies to the world.
 
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TK421 said:
Cardinal Bo, who is head of the Federation of Asian Bishops’ Conferences, denounced the Chinese regime Thursday for withholding information about the coronavirus and punishing doctors and journalists who attempted to alert the world of the virus’ potential danger.
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Here is another perspective, from the scientific journal, The Lancet, in support of the response and actions of Chinese scientists, on discovering the new coronavirus.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext

Another, from an English journalist who lived in China and returned home recently.

 
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FiveLinden said:
Wow.
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Almost like you wanted us to notice.

I have to stand with @Blimp, @Randolph and others here. You’re praising the China for ‘not reacting like Italy’ but it’s not the Italy who tried to protect their image no matter what. Communist Party of China has power to create a fake official image of their country (which is being opposed by bottom-up messages from the people, as in the case of the above-mentioned Cardinal) and imply their own version of events.

And the ‘why in Wuhan’ question is really important. Did you know how many people died already? How we could possibly prevent the possible future diseases like this when we don’t know the exact origin of it?

Also the sentences like “I thought Cardinals were meant to stay out of politics. What has this to do with his pastoral role?” only confirm your position towards the role of Catholic Church. It has to do everything with the pastoral role! The Cardinal is the bearer of the Good News and the pastor of God’s people. How could he remain aware of the lies and conceal them? If you have insight into truth, it’s a crime to protect the lies! Especially when he was at the center of events…
 
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What is my ‘position towards the role of the Catholic Church’?
 
FiveLinden said:
The ‘why in Wuhan’ question is meaningless.
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Is it though? I’m not a scientist, so forgive me if I have this completely wrong, but wasn’t the reason for the virus crossing from animal to human most likely the methods used in a traditional Chinese wet market? As I understand it, it’s likely that the virus would not have crossed to humans if (a) the Chinese did not eat wild animals and (b) they slaughtered the animals and sold the meat in a hygienic way.
 
Please read the link I posted above about this. The brief answer is: no-one knows, but the Chinese authorities have been extremely forthcoming with providing information to scientists around the world. Viruses have been leaping from other species to humans ever since we started living closely with other species about 15 thousand years ago. It could happen tomorrow in a US feedlot for cattle.

I should add that eating things is not how this virus is transmitted to or between humans.
 
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No, I didn’t think it was eating as such, but the ways in which the meat was prepared. If it has nothing to do with wild animals in wet markets, why is the western media on all sides making out that this could have been avoided if the Chinese adopted different methods for slaughter and sale of meat?
 
Aside from the amount of people who go missing in China for criticism of the government, or for having told the world about what was happening a few months ago, there is also the argument of just how irresponsible it is of China (not that they care) to give what are highly likely to be false stats of COVID-19 infections and deaths in their country (at least according to health organisation experts).

At a time like this, the world needs to work together to battle this problem, and part of that is authorities being transparent about the situation in their country.

If other nations look at the figures in China and believe them, they’ll assume the Chinese methods of battling this have been successful, and perhaps do the same, not realising China are simply lying, as people have said, to protect their own image.
 
Thom18 said:
I’m thinking the UN ought to force some recompense from the Chinese government for Corona. And if they wanted to secure freedom for the oppressed Church at the same time I wouldn’t complain.
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How about if China forgives their gigantic loan that the U.S. is no doubt using for our multi-trillion dollar Relief Plan?
 
Erundil said:
Almost like you wanted us to notice.

I have to stand with @Blimp, @Randolph and others here. You’re praising the China for ‘not reacting like Italy’ but it’s not the Italy who tried to protect their image no matter what. Communist Party of China has power to create a fake official image of their country (which is being opposed by bottom-up messages from the people, as in the case of the above-mentioned Cardinal) and imply their own version of events.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa.
I learned that accusing a person of something horrible without evidence to back it up is calumny.
I can see Five’s point.

I can also see where the complaints on China break down. Here we accuse that nation of cover-up and the putting the need to protect it’s image ahead of human lives.

But what exactly did the Chinese govt. do?
It used its absolute totalitarian authority to lock its people down and thus avoid further spread of the contagion within its borders.

How did doing so help China’s image?
One could argue from a free market capitalist perspective, what China did with that lock down was a typical totalitarian communist action. Such actions are not good for an image when you’re wanting to show how wonderful your form of govt is.

In the meantime, I am beginning to believe that it is the free market capitalists who are the ones that care more about the image of our system since we did nothing to heed the warnings of potential economic, social, and health impacts of this virus on local, national, and global levels.

I live in Florida, and I’m pretty certain we are about to become another COVID19 hotspot within the next 2 to 3 weeks because, unlike the Chinese communists, we played business as usual instead of heeding mother nature’s warnings.
FiveLinden said:
It could happen tomorrow in a US feedlot for cattle.
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True. That’s why the cattle industry wanted to take off Oprah’s head for whistleblowing beef industry facts all those years ago.
Peeps said:
How about if China forgives their gigantic loan that the U.S. is no doubt using for our multi-trillion dollar Relief Plan?
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ruh-roh

Is this a Chinese bail-out with the stimulus plan? Can you link the sources you have, because if it’s true, I’m not going to accept stim $$$
 
Blimp said:
I also don’t know where you get the imagination that they may care about the human lives.
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too many dead (especially if it’s members of their own party or military) = a collapse of the system

so yeah, they learned to care real quick

Unfortunately, it might be too late for us in the states. Cats outta the bag here in the Sunshine State.
 
Blimp said:
Do you know what Communist China is? They TO THIS DAY deny the Tiananmen Square Massacre.
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So it must have been pretty darned difficult to lock their nation down on the world stage.
People want access to their cheap products, btw.
If Chinese workers aren’t at the factories producing the goods, then there’s no products to ship overseas to the hungry capitalists.

it must have been a difficult decision, indeed. Especially since so many businesses are government owned in China.
 
@MamaJewel

Plenty can be said about how Western governments could and should have been better prepared, but that argument doesn’t transfer very well to poorer and developing countries with far more limited resources, and that is what the cardinal seems to focus on.

Also, I hardly consider lack of preparation to be on the same level of guilt as deliberate suppression.
 
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China lies, lies, and lies some more.

Their response to covid has been wonderful? Bunk.

China claims - key word, claims - to have had zero fatalities in Wuhan from covid in March.

Radio Free Asia reports the death toll in china at 400,000. Credible reports are that crematoriums are running 24/7 and that thousands of urns were only just delivered to the 7 official funeral homes in Wuhan.

Apparently a hundred thousand cell phones in the Wuhan area have just gotten cancelled. The surmise is their owners are dead.
 
Blimp said:
I’m sorry, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. “ Difficult decision ”?!
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Oh, I certainly do.
Tiananmen Square was an easy decision for the Chinese govt. The lives of those students weren’t worth anything to the communists.

The Covid19 lock down was different because of the dangers of the contagion. Nature was in control, not the communist party. At that point, a lock down was the only viable option to (collectively) save human lives. It isn’t like the communists want their comrades dead. They care about the lives of their families, friends, and party members. And on some levels, even their own fellow country men.
 
MamaJewel said:
Is this a Chinese bail-out with the stimulus plan? Can you link the sources you have, because if it’s true, I’m not going to accept stim $$$
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Where else is the U.S. going to get that kind of money? It sure wouldn’t be the first time that the U.S. has borrowed cash from China!

I couldn’t find a “proof link,” but I’m not surprised. I don’t think it would look good for all the Senators and Representatives, as well as for the current Pres. and VP, if the public knew that all the money that’s helping them out during this hard time is coming from China–although maybe I’m wrong about that! It seems appropriate for China to help us out.

But no, just speculation on my part, but again, we have borrowed a lot of money from China in the past, and I suspect that much of this money is also borrowed.

BTW, I am in favor of the stimulus package. People are in serious need–many people received their last paycheck right before their state closed many businesses. Many people live paycheck to paycheck, so their last paycheck is gone, and they still have rent, food, and other bills. Plus many small companies live the same way–on a very small profit margin or perhaps they are still not profitable but working towards it. These people and businesses need the relief right now, and for as many months as the shutdown continues. Private donations will help, but considering that the government collects taxes, it makes perfect sense to me to use some of that tax money to help the people that donated it to the government. This is not a time for “bootstraps” thinking. It doesn’t matter what Dave Ramsay says about having 6 months of funds saved up–the huge majority of Americans do NOT have 6 months or even 1 month of funds saved up! Again, I support the relief bill for humanitarian and business reasons.
 
VonDerTann said:
Apparently a hundred thousand cell phones in the Wuhan area have just gotten cancelled. The surmise is their owners are dead.
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with 11.5 million people in Wuhan, 100, 000 dead would be about 1% of the Wuhan population
TK421 said:
Plenty can be said about how Western governments could and should have been better prepared, but that argument doesn’t transfer very well to poorer and developing countries with far more limited resources, and that is what the cardinal seems to focus on.
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The poor always get slaughtered. I can respect the cardinal’s sentiments.
TK421 said:
Also, I hardly consider lack of preparation to be on the same level of guilt as deliberate suppression.
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Me, I see the lack of preparation as a form of covert suppression. Here in the states, we’ve been waiting for this bug since I was in high school. We knew better, but didn’t do better.

Maybe they suppressed because they weren’t sure of what they were dealing with at first. Although the quick collective response of a uniform, nation-wide lock down makes me wonder if the communists had a hand in bio-engineering the virus.
 
Peeps said:
Where else is the U.S. going to get that kind of money?
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My thoughts exactly. Our debt exceeds our GDP.
As far as the stimulus goes, this problem is going to last more than six months.
 
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