China owes ‘apology and compensation’ for coronavirus, says cardinal

[VonDerTann]

The point of my post, mama jewel, is that China lies frequently, and is lying about their death toll. Nothing about your post really refutes that.

Unfortunately you are doing what some others are doing elsewhere on this board, throwing around claims that “compared to the total population covid isn’t too bad.”

Those statements come perilously close to Joe Stalin saying that the death of a million men was a statistic.

Now, let me ask you: the Chinese government claims they have had less deaths so far of covid than has the US.

China also is claiming that covid is a US virus and was brought to China by the US military in a war game held in Wuhan last year.

Let me ask you: do you believe China?

(Some are starting to ask if China’s “blame the US” is a presage of a military attack on the US, but we’ll leave that unaddressed. There was a good article on that on americanthinker.com yesterday).

For the record China’s debt to GDP ratio is like 300% worse than the US.

 

[annad347]

Sounds like your saying China is evil and should pay, if not with their lives, but with their money. They hurt us so lets hurt them.

 

[Fauken]

Sounds like your saying China is evil and should pay, if not with their lives, but with their money. They hurt us so lets hurt them.

Justice is not opposed to mercy. Without justice, mercy is meaningless. Without mercy, justice is draconian. Asking for recompense is fine so long as it’s within reason.

 

[AlbMagno]

The ammount of straw man and ad-hominem arguments in this thread is horrifying:

Straw man preamble: China artificially made the virus, therefore it has guilt. (it’s possible but it isn’t verified to make a public statement).

Ad-hominem arguments: What the Cardinal says is right, we should take down the Communist government (we should be opposed to Communism, but if the first strawman is true, the communist regime has nothing to do with the pandemic worldwide).

 

[annad347]

Justice is not opposed to mercy. Without justice, mercy is meaningless. Without mercy, justice is draconian. Asking for recompense is fine so long as it’s within reason.

This isn’t justice, its revenge… you hurt us, we hurt you… we only know what the media is saying, and though I’m not in agreement with President Trump on saying the media is reporting fake news (that’s dumb), but the media does tend to not report everything needed to truly understand the truth.

Without intensive investigation of what happened and how, saying something like a country needs to apology and pay compensation for what happened, all you are going to do is fuel hatred and prejudice to people just because they are from that country.

the article knew this which is why they included

Let me be clear — it is the CCP that has been responsible, not the people of China, and no one should respond to this crisis with racial hatred toward the Chinese.

As if that will happen. There is even some posters here asking if another poster is a commie because they disagree with what’s being said.

People at my job talk about how sick and disgusting Chinese people are because of what happened.

Articles that specifically blame someone for something to people who have no possible way of knowing what really happened do not help the situation, they just cause hatred… and for someone of the Catholic church to agree with it, isn’t showing God’s love, they are just justifying the hatred articles like this can spread. That’s not showing God’s power, mercy or grace.

Yes, this started in China. Yes, they took forever to tell the world about it to try to prevent it from spreading… but look at history, how many people have to die before anyone takes notice and do something about it. How many people died before we realize smoking can kill you and people still smoke. How many people had to die before those in charge did anything warn people about the spread of AIDS. For people realize AIDS wasn’t just aimed at certain people, it can kill all people. Do you really think the country would have just shut down and did what they had to do with out the LARGE number of deaths to happen before anyone took notice, who’s being naive now?

 

[Wesrock]

There’s a lot to denounce a country like China on, and their regime is evil and authoritarian. But to what degree can you denounce a country because a new strain of virus originated there? Plenty of other countries around the world have also had slow responses to taking the virus seriously. It’s not like they engineered the virus and set off dirty bombs or shipped corona-blankets intentionally to infect others.

Is there more to it?

 

[Randolph]

The ammount of straw man and ad-hominem arguments in this thread is horrifying:

Straw man preamble: China artificially made the virus, therefore it has guilt. (it’s possible but it isn’t verified to make a public statement).

Ad-hominem arguments: What the Cardinal says is right, we should take down the Communist government (we should be opposed to Communism, but if the first strawman is true, the communist regime has nothing to do with the pandemic worldwide).

People are dying in the tens of thousands everyday worldwide today, and the number of deaths will be in the hundreds of thousands in the coming weeks and months. People’s lives are ruined. Red China has repeatedly lied to the world about the spread of this virus which originated in Wuhan.They have refused to share the data of the this virus, and have refused scientists from all over the world to help stop the spread of this deadly virus. This data could have helped scientists to contain the spread of this deadly virus and to save human lives as we speak.

…And you are now interested in forging your fake, hypothetical straw man argument!!! How tone deaf must you be??..Seriously, what’s wrong with you???

 

[Fauken]

This isn’t justice, its revenge… you hurt us we hurt you…

Is asking a thief to return stolen goods revenge? Is asking for someone to pay for a window they broke revenge?

Without intensive investigation of what happened and how

Which is fine and no one would be opposed to.

people at my job talk about how sick and disgusting Chinese people are because of what happened.

Which is wrong and racist.

Do you really think the country would have just shut down and did what they had to do with out the LARGE number of deaths to happen before anyone took notice

I think they would have learned their lessons from the 2000’s when SARS was a problem there (and coronavirus is a form of SARS) and wouldn’t want it to happen again. And now here we are.

But to what degree can you denounce a country because a new strain of virus originated there?

If they deliberately and knowingly suppressed information about the danger regarding the disease, then I’d say they can and should be denounced.

 

[VonDerTann]

By that logic it’s vengeful to ever ask for compensation when someone wrongs you.

I don’t see anyone saying China needs to be the victim of violence. But the Chinese government has acted to the detriment of human rights and religious freedom (to say nothing of truth!) for decades, and calling them out for it does not equal being vengeful.

True Christianity need not equal blind trust and milquetoasty smiles in the face of bellicose antagonism, which is what China has been doing for years internationally.

 

[AlbMagno]

Many countries have mistreated the pandemic, including the United States. There is a reason for them to be the most infected country now. The same for Italy and many other countries.

If we are casting blame, we should cast blame on all of us.

And there have been scientific papers released from China since the origin of the pandemic.

I am not defending Communism, I am not Communist, but I don’t want to transform a worldwide tragedy into some kind of sentimentalist anti-commie raid.

 

[Randolph]

If we are casting blame, we should cast blame on all of us .

And there have been scientific papers released from China since the origin of the pandemic.

You can take the blame with Red China if you want. But I am not taking the blame—neither should people from Spain, Italy, Burma, Laos, Taiwan, Germany, The UK, and the rest the world. Yeah, tell people (and their loved ones) who have just died from this virus to take the blame. Tell the doctors, nurses, health care staff, emergency responders, etc… to take the blame… Have you lost your mind???

The data regarding this virus from Red China have been lies and more lies. They said this virus could not spread to humans—-a big lie. They jailed and silenced the Chinese doctor who, in good conscience, decided to tell the world of the dangers. He later died. Furthermore, there is another female Chinese doctor who told the world what she knew—she suddenly disappeared. Red China has the real data, but have refused to share them with the world. Their refusal to share data has cost thousands of lives of everyday.

 

[annad347]

Is asking a thief to return stolen goods revenge? Is asking for someone to pay for a window they broke revenge?

It is if have no real idea of who did you wrong and take it out on someone because you think they are responsible… no questions.

I’m not saying those, in charge, in China shouldn’t have done more to prevent this from spreading worse, then it has… but they are not the only ones to blame. To say they are just incites hatred.

I think they would have learned their lessons from the 2000’s when SARS was a problem there (and coronavirus is a form of SARS) and wouldn’t want it to happen again. And now here we are.

The USA or China?

If they deliberately and knowingly suppressed information about the danger regarding the disease, then I’d say they can and should be denounced.

yes if they deliberately and knowingly spread this virus… if they deliberately and knowingly suppressed information… if they deliberately and knowingly did nothing to stop or help… then name that person or persons who are deliberately and knowingly are responsible, not just a whole country.

By that logic it’s vengeful to ever ask for compensation when someone wrongs you.

Depends on what kind of compensation you are demanding.

God says forgive your enemies, love who do you wrong. Is demanding compensation from someone who wrongs you what God wants from us?

Never forget what is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven… is compensation from someone, what you want bound to you in haven because you demanded it on earth?

 

[Fauken]

It is if have no real idea of who did you wrong and take it out on someone because you think they are responsible… no questions.

No one is saying no questions should be asked or a kangaroo trial should be put on. But it is a fact that China has a problem with censorship and has enacted policies which have killed thousands of people. They should not be surprised that people are suspicious of what they say considering that they use lying as government policy.

The USA or China?

China. This isn’t the first time they’ve had a SARS outbreak.

yes if they deliberately and knowingly spread this virus… if they deliberately and knowingly suppressed information… if they deliberately and knowingly did nothing to stop or help… then name that person or persons who are deliberately and knowingly are responsible, not just a whole country.

And if those people are the leaders of the country? If those leaders used government agencies to enact their policies of censorship and oppression?

Never forget what is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven… is compensation from someone, what you want bound to you in haven because you demanded it on earth?

That is a misquoting of Matthew. That was said to Peter in regards to his authority, not us.

 

[KMC]

It is if have no real idea of who did you wrong and take it out on someone because you think they are responsible… no questions.

I’m not saying those, in charge, in China shouldn’t have done more to prevent this from spreading worse, then it has… but they are not the only ones to blame. To say they are just incites hatred.

First, there are no credible reports to show that it originated from any country other than China. The two most likely possibilities based on the news reports: 1) It “escaped” from a lab in Wuhan where they do research on Horseshoe Bats, and 2) It originated from a Chinese wet market.
Given they deliberately lied about it being communicable person-to-person and even jailed a doctor who alerted the world about it, it is quite reasonable to believe they were negligent.
To seek the truth is to seek the truth. The Chinese government, either through lack of safety protocols at a research lab, or lack of sanitary regulations at a wet market are culpable.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I’m certainly open to changing my mind.

yes if they deliberately and knowingly spread this virus… if they deliberately and knowingly suppressed information… if they deliberately and knowingly did nothing to stop or help… then name that person or persons who are deliberately and knowingly are responsible, not just a whole country.

Not a whole country…the government of China specifically.

By that logic it’s vengeful to ever ask for compensation when someone wrongs you.

Depends on what kind of compensation you are demanding.

God says forgive your enemies, love who do you wrong. Is demanding compensation from someone who wrongs you what God wants from us?

Never forget what is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven… is compensation from someone, what you want bound to you in haven because you demanded it on earth?

You are confusing forgiveness and justice. God calls all of us to forgive, which we must do, however, justice demands restitution be made. This is why you are still given penance AFTER you are forgiven your sins in confession.

 

[annad347]

All I’m saying is people need to be careful of what they say, how they say especially those who are responsible for others.

Look how things got misunderstood, in a simple thread based on one article.

That is a misquoting of Matthew. That was said to Peter in regards to his authority, not us.

This I think is for an entirely different thread but I must ask… do Catholic’s really believe that passage was just meant for Peter, what about the rest of the passage, was that also just meant for Peter? Matthew 18

 

[AlbMagno]

Their refusal to share data has cost thousands of lives of everyday.

The refusal of people to go into quarantine has cost thousands of lives.

The refusal of medical bureaucracy to accelerate the research has cost thousands of lives.

The refusal of governments to cancel airplane flights has cost thousands of lives.

Really, Americans? The world is burning and you enter in some rethoric for economic compensation? Can’t you tender to the pandemic? Can’t you not cast out the beam out of your own eye before casting out the one of the others?

 

[Sarcelle]

Part of being a shepherd is to look out for both the physical and spiritual well being of his flock.
It isn’t just the effects of the virus that came about from the actions of the PRC government.

Due to the one child policy and the resulting gender imbalance, there is the increased human trafficking of women from much poorer nations to China.

Not to mention the drug trafficking that originate from China. I’d be willing to bet that corrupt Communist officials in China profit from the drug trade.

China has a lot to answer for.

 

[Peeps]

I think that, just as Pres. Reagan told Premier Gorbachev to “Tear down this wall!” the rest of the world should tell China to “End the communist regime!”

Pres. Reagan had the work and prayers of Pope John Paul II in advance of his directive to Mr. Gorbachev, and God used the Pope’s advance work and prayers and Pres. Reagan’s persuasive and strong directive to bring about the end of the evil Soviet Union.

In the same way, it appears that a brave Cardinal has been working and praying for years for China, and now has discerned an opportunity for his beloved country to be free of the repression of Communism. All that is needed is for the world to come together and demand that China free its people–God WILL answer prayers, and if this is the right time in world history, God will bring it to pass.

THAT’S the justice that we should ALL pray for AND demand.

 

[Sarcelle]

So China is innocent in all this?

 

[AlbMagno]

I didn’t say they were innocent, I’ve said they were guilty among all the other nations.

No country has enacted a perfect policy. We don’t know which goverments lie with statistics. It’s futile to cast blame NOW instead of collaborating with the quarantine or trying to find a solution for the pandemic.