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GenerationHV
Guest
This is not true:shrug:
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sweetpea8319
Guest
Tay, I would agree that you have done well seeking a couple different priests advice. My husband and I are an NFP couple, and also NFP teachers of the Sympto-Thermo Method of NFP which uses all three signs of fertility to help make a more precise science. My own cycle irregularities are enough to scare any regular user of NFP, but can only say that my husband and I are a success story for “figuring things out”. That said, what you are experiencing is very difficult, but from the signs you have mentioned occurred from your first two pregnancies, it does not appear as if your situation is impossible. My husband and I volunteer teach for www.ccli.org the Couple to Couple League. If you would like, PM me and we can talk about your issues with using NFP, and if I cannot provide the assistance needed, CCLI has experts who are always available to assist, including a Nurse on staff.
Please do not give up hope; others have mentioned it to you, you do have options still, and sinning should be put as far from your own list of options as possible.
Please do not give up hope; others have mentioned it to you, you do have options still, and sinning should be put as far from your own list of options as possible.
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SED
Guest
God, from you every family in heaven and on earth takes its name. Father, you are love and life. Through your Son, Jesus Christ, born of woman, and through the Holy Spirit, fountain of divine charity, grant that every family on earth may become for each successive generation a true shrine of life and love.
Grant that your grace may guide the thoughts and actions of husbands and wives for the good of their families and of all the families in the world. Grant that the young may find in the family solid support for their human dignity and for their growth in truth and love. Grant that love, strengthened by the grace of the sacrament of marriage may prove mightier than all weaknesses and trials through which our families sometimes pass.
Through the intercession of the Holy Family of Nazareth, grant the church may fruitfully carry out her worldwide mission in the family and through the family. We ask this of you, who are life, truth, and love with the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Grant that your grace may guide the thoughts and actions of husbands and wives for the good of their families and of all the families in the world. Grant that the young may find in the family solid support for their human dignity and for their growth in truth and love. Grant that love, strengthened by the grace of the sacrament of marriage may prove mightier than all weaknesses and trials through which our families sometimes pass.
Through the intercession of the Holy Family of Nazareth, grant the church may fruitfully carry out her worldwide mission in the family and through the family. We ask this of you, who are life, truth, and love with the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
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Ms_Manners
Guest
Well, the priest is very strict with other things as well, but the way it was explained did kind of make sense, so…
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Brendan_64
Guest
So you’re advocating moral relativism?
Whether an act is sinful or not is determined by what the particular individual feels is right, given their circumstances?
That might be your personal opinion, but it isn’t what our Church teaches regarding sin.
How we, as individuals, feel things ought to be does not determine what is and what is not sin. The use of contraception is a sin (and considered to be grave matter). The Church doesn’t teach that it is OK to sin (ever) if it means keeping a marriage happy, or even keeping a marriage together.
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Tiffpark
Guest
Yes it was my own opinion and not a church teaching, however I never said she should chose sin. I was making a statement about sticking by your spouse. And your wrong about keeping marriage together- to separate marriage is ALSO a sin. Marriage is intended to be permanent (Matthew 19:6; Mark 10:9). Marriage involves a solemn promise not merely to one’s marriage partner, but before God. Divorce is not permitted…*there are only three biblically sanctioned instances of divorce
(1) sexual marital unfaithfulness (i.e. adultery); and (2) the unbelieving spouse’s refusal to continue the marriage after the conversion of the other partner (3) cases of persistent physical spousal abuse.
Sorry for the confusion I was simply stating to not chose one sin over another.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Hang on a minute, when did I ever say anything about it being OK to separate? I have said nothing supporting divorce, I never even mentioned it.
However it is not OK to commit a mortal sin in order to keep the peace within a marriage. Our Church teaches that we can NEVER commit sin in order to satisfy what we perceive as a greater good. We are NOT allowed to sin in order to try to save our marriage, never. And the sin in question here is grave matter.
If you are advising this person to do what she feels is right and implied that people are too concerned with what the Church teaches as being sin, you are in effect advising her to do what she thinks is ‘best’ for her marriage and that the sinfulness of such acts ought to be secondary to keeping the ‘stability’ of her marriage.
This is a Catholic answers board, when people come here with questions, they generally want to know what the Catholic position is on such issues. The advice you have given her runs contrary to the teachings of our Church. as Catholics we are bound to follow those teachings, we are not free to propagate views contrary to these.
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Allegra
Guest
It’s been a while since I was in health class, so you’ll have to forgive me for asking. What contraceptives are currently on the market that can be used without the woman’s consent and not amount to a charge of physical assault?
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OSUbride0708
Guest
If a husband insists on getting a vasectomy or using a condom, and the wife is clear that she is not okay with it and believes it to be a mortal sin and does not want to contracept, she is still free to have sex with her husband even though he chooses to contracept.
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Allegra
Guest
How is the wife not using the condom as well, in that case? Is she not willingly allowing it to be put inside her body?
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OSUbride0708
Guest
40% of women ovulate before their first post-partum period, so you can definitely get pregnant during post partum time. I did!
Also, I’m confused as to why you only have 2 available days? Even if you used Phase 3 only, your luteal phase (from day after ovulation to next period) should be at least 10 days or more. Even if 3 of those days were avoiding after ovulation, you still have a week left? So that should give you 7 days. If your luteal phase is less than 10 days then there may be signs of a health problem, something you would want to talk to a Dr. about.
If you haven’t gotten help from an instructor, there is no reason to resort to illicit means to prevent pregnancy. Couple to Couple league website should have a list of instructors for symptom-thermal if you need instruction.
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
OSu I’m quoting you, but you are not the first to say this, I just grabbed your post because it was the most recent I saw (I wouldn’t be surprised if you can find a quote from me saying the same thing), but I think the ladies below have a better (name removed by moderator)ut on this subject (I bolded certain sections):
This is why this is so important:
The Vademecum for confessors says:
- Special difficulties are presented by cases of cooperation in the sin of a spouse who voluntarily renders the unitive act infecund. In the first place, it is necessary to distinguish cooperation in the proper sense, from violence or unjust imposition on the part of one of the spouses, which the other spouse in fact cannot resist.46, 561).] This cooperation can be licit when the three following conditions are jointly met:
when proportionally grave reasons exist for cooperating in the sin of the other spouse;
when one is seeking to help the other spouse to desist from such conduct (patiently, with prayer, charity and dialogue; although not necessarily in that moment, nor on every single occasion).
For the innocent spouse to not have an illicit action, and of the innocent spouse to seek to help the other spouse are not sufficient (like pretty much everyone keeps saying)… There is a third factor that has to do with proportionately grave reasons, and this is something that a good (one that understands and follows the teachings) spiritual adviser that knows the OP better, would be able to help her discern. The first condition does clearly show that the OP cannot use contraceptives herself, though, and so any person or priest that suggests otherwise would be incorrect.
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Brendan_64
Guest
If a condom is used then both parties are actually using it. Just because it is on the husband’s body does not mean that is just him alone that is using it. Both parties would be using contraceptives in this case.
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Dorothy
Guest
A condom.
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Allegra
Guest
How exactly does the man slip that on without the woman noticing? Or are we talking about a situation of marital rape? In that case, I can’t see that the woman is culpable for anything that is done.
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Dorothy
Guest
I didn’t make myself clear. The wife knows her husband is determined to use contraception, but she doesn’t have to refuse him as long as she reminds him from time to time that she doesn’t agree with his use of contraception and that there are other options.
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Allegra
Guest
I wish you had been there to explain that to my mom when I was sixteen. My family was on a vacation together and my parents went out and told my older brother (23 at the time) that under no circumstances was he to give us any alchohol. We were playing Phase 10 which is a game that takes roughly 17 hours to complete and it’s generally alot more enjoyable with alchohol. Anyway, before long, he was mixing drinks for my sister and I. We TOLD him that we weren’t allowed to drink the drinks and that mom would be really mad at him for giving them to us. We TOLD him that it was actually illegal for him to give us the drinks. He explained that we were 16 and that was practically old enough and it wasn’t like he was giving a drink to one of the little kids. He PROMISED that he would take the blame if mom got mad and would tell her that it was his idea and not ours. So we drank the drinks, knowing full well that we weren’t allowed to and that our brother was going to be in “big trouble” when our mom came home. And do you know what happened? Mom came home and she punished US! Even though our brother bought, mixed, AND served the drinks, AND even though it was totally HIS idea, AND even though we TOLD him that we weren’t allowed, AND even though he SAID he would take the blame! Can you believe the injustice in the world? I sure wish you’d have been there to explain how it was his fault and not ours and how we were allowed to break the law if someone else tells us to, as long as we let them no that we don’t approve of it from time to time.
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Dorothy
Guest
I do understand the point you are making. Then, priests who explained the situation the way they did either were wrong and blatantly misrepresenting Catholic teaching, or they were correct and there is a way to explain that directive better.
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Allegra
Guest
There’s a third option. That directive is meant for couples where one spouse is using a form of contraception that the other person has no control over. A pill or a surgical procedure can be administered without the participation or even the knowledge of both parties. A condom doesn’t fall under that situation as it is impossible for it to be used without the consent of both parties.
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Xantippe
Guest
“That directive is meant for couples where one spouse is using a form of contraception that the other person has no control over. A pill or a surgical procedure can be administered without the participation or even the knowledge of both parties.”
Coitus interruptus also counts–that’s something that only one partner has control over.
Coitus interruptus also counts–that’s something that only one partner has control over.
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