Christ as God in the Bible (evidence for our Muslim members)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rand_Al_Thor
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Psalms 110:1 - the Lord (Yahweh) said to my Lord - Jesus = Yhwh
Acts 2:34-36 - God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

Psalm 148:1-2 - the angels worship the Lord God
Heb. 1:6 - the angels worship Jesus. Only God is worshiped.

Prov. 3:12 - who the Lord loves He corrects
Rev. 3:19 - who Jesus loves He corrects.

Isaiah 7:14 - a virgin will bear a Son named Emmanuel which means “God is with us”
Matt. 1:23 - this Son is Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.
Isaiah 9:6 - the child to be born shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 25:8 - God swallows up death in victory
2 Tim. 1:10 - Jesus abolishes death and brings life and immortality.

Isaiah 40:8 - the Word of God shall stand forever
Matt. 24:35 - the Words of Jesus shall not pass away.

Isaiah 42:8 - God gives His glory to no other
John 17:5; Heb. 1:3 - yet Jesus has the same glory as the Father.

Isaiah 43:14 - the Lord God is redeemer
Titus 2:14 - Jesus is the redeemer.
Isaiah 44:6 - the Lord God is the first and the last
Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13 - Jesus is the first and the last.

Isaiah 45:19 - I, the Lord God, did not speak in secret
John 18:20 - Jesus said “I have said nothing secretly.”

Isaiah 45:23 - to God, every knee shall bow and every tongue swear.
Phil. 2:10-11 - at Jesus’ name every knee should bow and tongue confess.
Isaiah 48:17 - God is the Holy One
Acts 3:14 - Jesus is the Holy One.
 
Isaiah 60:19 - God is everlasting light
Revelation 21:23 - Jesus the Lamb is eternal light.

Jer. 17:10 - the Lord searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds
Rev. 2:23 - Jesus searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds.

Ezek. 1:26-28; Daniel 7:9 - God’s glorious appearance
Rev. 1:13-16 - Jesus’ glorious appearance.

Ezek. 34:11-31 - God the Father is the shepherd of the flock
John 10:7-29 - Jesus is the shepherd of the flock.

Ezek. 34:16 - God seeks to save that which was lost
Luke 19:10 - Jesus seeks to save that which was lost.

Ezek. 34:17 - God judges between cattle, rams and goats
Matt. 25:32 - Jesus judges and separates the goats from the sheep.

Ezek. 43:2 - God’s voice was like a noise of many waters
Rev. 1:15 - Jesus’ voice was like the sound of many waters.

Dan. 2:47 - the Lord is the God of gods and the Lord of Lords
Rev. 17:14 - Jesus the Lamb is the Lord of Lords.
 
Jesus Christ’s Witnesses Claim that Jesus is God

John 1:1 - John writes, “the Word was God.” This is clear evidence of Jesus Christ’s divinity. (Note: in the Jehovah’s bible, the passage was changed to “Word was a god.” This is not only an embarrassing attempt to deny the obvious divinity of Christ, but it also violates the first commandment and Isaiah 43:10 because it acknowledges that there is more than one God).

John 1:2-3 - He (the Word) was in the beginning with God and all things were made through Him (the Word who was God).

John 1:14 - the Word (who is God) became flesh (Jesus) and dwelled among us, full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 - the Greek word for “only-begotten” is “monogenes” which means unique, only member of a kind. It does not mean created.

John 3:5 - Jesus says without baptism one cannot enter into the Kingdom of God
Col. 1:13 - Paul says this is Jesus’ Kingdom.
John 6:68-69 - Peter confesses that Jesus is the Son of God who has the words of eternal life.

Acts 2:36 - God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ
Acts 4:24 - Sovereign Lord who made heaven and earth. This means Jesus is God.

Acts 3:15 - Peter said the men of Israel “killed the Author of Life.” This can only be God
Acts 14:15 - who made all things.
Acts 20:28 - to care for the Church of God which He obtained with His own blood. This means God shed His blood. When? When He died on the cross. This means Jesus is God.

Rom. 1:1 - Paul is an apostle of the Gospel of God
Rom. 15:19 - Paul preached the Gospel of Christ.

Rom. 7:22 - Paul says he delights in the law of God
Gal. 6:2 - Paul says fulfill the law of Christ.
Rom. 8:9 - Paul refers to both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ.
 
Rom. 9:5 - Jesus Christ is God over all, blessed forever.

Rom. 11:36 - God for from Him through Him and to Him are all things
Heb. 2:10 - Jesus for whom and by whom are all things.

1 Cor. 15:9 - Paul says he persecuted the Church of God
Matt. 16:18; Rom. 16:16- it is the Church of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 15:28 - God may be all in all
Colossians 3:11 - Christ is all and in all.

Gal. 1:5 - God the Father to whom be the glory forever
2 Peter 3:18 - to Jesus Christ be the glory both now and forever.
Phil. 2:6-7 - Jesus was in the form of God, but instead of asserting His equality with God, emptied Himself for us.

Col. 1:15 - Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the “firstborn” of all creation. The Greek word for “first-born” is “prototokos” which means eternal preexistence (it never means created).

Col. 1:26 - God’s saints 1 Thess. 3:13 - at the coming of Jesus Christ with all His saints.

Col. 2:9 - in Jesus Christ the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. He is the whole and entire fullness of the indivisible God in the flesh.

Titus 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of God
Rom. 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of Jesus Christ.
Titus 1:3-4 - God our Savior = Christ our Savior = Jesus Christ is God.

Titus 2:11 - the grace of God that has appeared to save all men
Acts 15:11 - through the grace of Jesus we have salvation.
Titus 2:13 - we await our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Titus 3:4 - 3:6 - great God and Savior Jesus Christ = God our Savior = Jesus Christ our Savior = Jesus is God.

Heb. 1:6 - when God brings His first-born into the world, let all the angels of God worship Him. Only God is worshiped.

Heb. 1:8 - God calls the Son “God.” But of the Son He says, “Thy Throne Oh God is forever and ever.”
 
Heb. 1:9 - God calls the Son “God.” “Therefore, God, Thy God has anointed Thee.”

Heb. 1:10 - God calls the Son “Lord.” “And thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning and the heavens are your work.”

Heb. 13:12 - Paul says Jesus sanctifies the people with His blood
1 Thess. 5:23 - the God of peace sanctifies the people.
2 Peter 1:1 - to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:20 - “that we may know Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.”

Jude 4 - Jude calls Jesus Christ our only Master and Lord. Our only Master and Lord is God Himself.

Rev. 2:8 - the angel of the church in Smyrna wrote, “The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life.” See Isa. 44:6.

Rev. 22:6 - the Lord God sends angels -
Rev. 22:16 - Jesus sends angels.
 
Jesus Christ Claims to be God

Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, “you shall not tempt the Lord your God” in reference to Himself. Satan was tempting Jesus.

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, “You heard it said…but I say to you…”

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, “Lord, Lord.” Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is “Lord of the Sabbath.” He is the Lord of God’s law which means He is God.

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself “Lord.” “The Lord has need of them.”

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God “Abba,” Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus’ unique intimacy with the Father.

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said “tell how much God has done for you.” And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, “whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.”
 
John 6:38 - Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven.”

John 8:12 - Jesus says “I am the light of the world.” - 1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.

John 8:19 - Jesus says, “if you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.

John 8:58 - Jesus says, “Before Abraham was, I AM.” Exodus 3:14 - “I AM” means “Yahweh,” which means God.

John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, “I and the Father are one.” They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus’ statement in John 14:28, “the Father is greater than I,” cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus’ statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is “the Son of God.”

John 10:38; 14:10 - “the Father is in me and I am in the Father” means the Father and Son are equal.

John 12:45 - Jesus says, “He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.” God the Father is equal to God the Son.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, “You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM.”

John 14:6 - Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 16:15 - Jesus says, “all things that the Father has are Mine.” Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

John 16:28 - Jesus says that “He came from the Father and has come into the world.”

John 17:5,24 - Jesus’ desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.
 
John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying “My Father and your Father.”

Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the “Alpha and the Omega.” In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the “Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end.” The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, “I am the First and the Last.” ***This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12. ***

Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says “I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore.” When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, “The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life.” When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
Jesus Christ is Worshiped

Rev. 4:9-11; 5:8,12-14; 7:11-12 - both Jesus and the Father are worshiped. The Greek word for worship is “proskuneo” which always means the worship of God.

Matt. 2:2,11 - the magi who came to see the newborn Jesus came to worship Him.

Matt. 8:2 - a leper came to Jesus and worshiped Him without rebuke.

Matt. 14:33 - the apostles who were in the boat worshiped Jesus without rebuke.

Matt. 28:9 - Jesus’ disciples took His feet and worshiped Him without rebuke.

Matt. 28:17 - Jesus’ disciples saw Him and then worshiped Him.

Mark 5:6 - the man with the unclean spirit ran to Jesus and worshiped Him.

Luke 1:11 - Mary accepts Elizabeth’s declaration “the Mother of my Lord” = the Mother of my God (Elizabeth used the word “Adonai” which means “Lord God”).

Luke 24:52 - as Jesus ascended into heaven, the apostles worshiped Him.

John 9:38 - the blind man who was cured by Jesus worshiped Him.

John 20:28 - Jesus accepts Thomas’ statement “My Lord and my God!” Literally, “the Lord of me and the God of me!” (in Greek, “Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou”).

Note: resource www.scripturecatholic.com

God bless,

Pio
 
40.png
Faith101:
no, but thanks anyway

.

You can also see it the way i stated before…just depends what background your coming from.
off topic: i thought all those who believe in Jesus will go to heaven?

Ryan, you will have to present your point of view to God when (after a long healthy life) you stand in front of him to be judged. Make sure you have it figured out in your head 100 percent.

Ive come to the conclusion that i will never understand the trinity, and as a Muslim, I can live with that. I just hope it makes sense to you

Shalom,
RyanL
Click to expand...
Faith101, Don’t you think it is a bit presumptuous to think that you can know all there is to know about God? If He is all everything, infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, etc. Don’t you think that in our human weakness, intellectual and otherwise, there might be some things that we cannot know about our Creator? That there might be things that are a mystery (i.e. Trinity)?

I agree that we will be questioned on why we believe what we believe, but I don’t think a merciful God who is the beginning and the end, will condemn you for not being able to grasp everything about Him. Quite simply, He is too much for the human intellect to completely wrap its mind around, unless He wills it.
 
Faith101, Don’t you think it is a bit presumptuous to think that you can know all there is to know about God? If He is all everything, infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, etc. Don’t you think that in our human weakness, intellectual and otherwise, there might be some things that we cannot know about our Creator? That there might be things that are a mystery (i.e. Trinity)?

I agree that we will be questioned on why we believe what we believe, but I don’t think a merciful God who is the beginning and the end, will condemn you for not being able to grasp everything about Him. Quite simply, He is too much for the human intellect to completely wrap its mind around, unless He wills it.
Click to expand...
We dont know everything about God. But we do know (from the previuous messengers, and scriptures) that He is One. We have 99 names to decribe God (given to us by God himself). We know Him through them and through His revelation…however we can NOT presume to know evertying about God…this is not what i am proposing.

What i am saying is, what we DO know should be something everyone can understan…or else, why have we been given a brain?
 
hlgomez said:
Jesus Christ is Worshiped

Rev. 4:9-11; 5:8,12-14; 7:11-12 - both Jesus and the Father are worshiped. The Greek word for worship is “proskuneo” which always means the worship of God.

Matt. 2:2,11 - the magi who came to see the newborn Jesus came to worship Him.

Matt. 8:2 - a leper came to Jesus and worshiped Him without rebuke.

Matt. 14:33 - the apostles who were in the boat worshiped Jesus without rebuke.

Matt. 28:9 - Jesus’ disciples took His feet and worshiped Him without rebuke.

Matt. 28:17 - Jesus’ disciples saw Him and then worshiped Him.

Mark 5:6 - the man with the unclean spirit ran to Jesus and worshiped Him.

Luke 1:11 - Mary accepts Elizabeth’s declaration “the Mother of my Lord” = the Mother of my God (Elizabeth used the word “Adonai” which means “Lord God”).

Luke 24:52 - as Jesus ascended into heaven, the apostles worshiped Him.

John 9:38 - the blind man who was cured by Jesus worshiped Him.

John 20:28 - Jesus accepts Thomas’ statement “My Lord and my God!” Literally, “the Lord of me and the God of me!” (in Greek, “Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou”).

Note: resource www.scripturecatholic.com

God bless,

Pio
Click to expand...

Thanks guys for all the work you have done here. I still dont see one statement BY Jesus Christ peace be upon him where he says that he is God. An important statement like that should be made clear, dont you think
 
:banghead: I remember reading just that in *The Case for Christ *that I loaned someone. I believe it had to do with their linguistics and that they wouldn’t understand the Trinity and the Father/Son thing? Besides, it is implied beyond implied that he believes he is God.
 
We also have 2000 years of historic witness to the truth. Here is only the first 200 years after Christ. My question is, what is the earliest testimony that you can produce (Faith 101) that teaches otherwise? Where were all the Muslims during this time period? Or did they all start with Muhammed? So besides all the scripture that can be produced and argued till kingdom come, here are real life examples of the constant faith preserved for 2000 years. Was this some crazy idea? Jesus being God? By the way, Faith101, keep searching this sight and asking questions in the manner you are. You are very respectful and a joy to read. Do not let some (like USCATHOLIC) scare you off with his judgemental approaches. Catholics work in love.

This is off of Catholic.com:

Is Jesus truly God?

IS Jesus God? Early Christian writers didn’t seem to have any doubts. Just look at what they wrote:

Ignatius of Antioch

"Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God (*Epistle to the Ephesians *1 [A.D. 110]).

Ignatius of Antioch
"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit (Epistle to the Ephesians 18:2).

Ignatius of Antioch
". . . to the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is (Epistle to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).

Aristides
“[Christians] are they who, above every people of the Earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit” (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).

Tatian
“We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man” (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).

Melito
“It is no way necessary in dealing with persons of intelligence to adduce the actions of Christ after his baptism as proof that his soul and his body, his human nature, were like ours, real and not phantasmal. The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism; of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages” (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s, The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).

Irenaeus
"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the Earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and Earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the Resurrection from the dead, and the bodily Ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to re-establish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on Earth and under the earth . . " (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 180]).

Irenaeus
“Nevertheless, what cannot be said of anyone else who ever lived, that he is himself in his own right God and Lord . . . may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth” (Against Heresies 3:19:1).

Tertullian
“God alone is without sin. The only man who is without sin is Christ; for Christ is also God” (*The Soul *41:3 [A.D. 208]).
 
Tertullian"The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: from the one, born, and from the other, not born…" (The Flesh of Christ 5:6-7 [A.D. 208]).

Tertullian
“That there are two Gods and two Lords, however, is a statement which we will never allow to issue from our mouth; not as if the Father and the Son were not God, nor the Spirit God, and each of them God; but formerly two were spoken of as Gods and two as Lords, so that when Christ would come, he might both be acknowledged as God and be called Lord, because he is the Son of him who is both God and Lord” (Against Praxeas 13:6 [A.D. 213]).

Hippolytus
“Only [God’s] Word is from himself and is therefore also God, becoming the substance of God” (Philoso-phoumena 10:33 [A.D. 222]).

Hippolytus of Rome
“For Christ is the God over all, who has arranged to wash away sin from mankind, rendering the old man new” (*Philosophoumena *10:34).

Clement of Alexandria
“The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning, for he was in God, and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things” (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [ante A.D. 200]).

Clement of Alexandria
“Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is] the Expiator, the Savior, the Soother, the Divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son.” (*Exhortation to the Greeks *10:110:1).

Origen
“Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was, God” (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:Preface:4 [A.D. 220-230]).

Origen
“While we have been sketching the proof of the divinity of Jesus, we have made use of the prophetic statements concerning him, and have at the same time demonstrated that the writings which prophesied about him are divinely inspired” (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:1:6).

Cyprian
"One who denies that Christ is God cannot become his temple [of the Holy Spirit] . . . " (Letter to Jubaianus 73:12 [A.D. 255])

Arnobius
“‘Well, then,’ some raging, angry, and excited man will say, ‘Is that Christ your God?’ ‘God indeed,’ we shall answer, ‘and God of the hidden powers.’” (Against the Pagans 1:42 [A.D. 305]).

Lactantius
“He was made both Son of God in the spirit and Son of man in the flesh–that is, both God and man” (The Divine Institutions 4:13:5 [A.D. 310]).
 
40.png
Faith101:
What i am saying is, what we DO know should be something everyone can understan…or else, why have we been given a brain?
Click to expand...
This is not the exact quote, but St. Augustine said something along the lines of “If we understood him, he would not be God.” Finite minds cannot grasp an infinite God, it would be like trying to put the entire ocean into a thimble.
 
Thanks guys for all the work you have done here. I still dont see one statement BY Jesus Christ peace be upon him where he says that he is God. An important statement like that should be made clear, dont you think
Click to expand...
Faith101,

I can’t believe your utter ignorance. I have shown you numerous verses including Jesus’ own words:

**Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the “Alpha and the Omega.” In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the “Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end.” The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, “I am the First and the Last.” *This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12. *

Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says “I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore.” When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, “The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life.” When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. **
Truly, the words in Scriptures are being fulfilled;

‘You shall indeed hear but not understand you shall indeed look but never see. Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and be converted, and I heal them.’

I’ll be praying for you, and I pray that the Lord will not held your ignorance against you.

Pio
 
faith101,

as regards Muhammad, where does it say in Quran a particular verse that say; “I am Allah, and Muhammad is my prophet.”

It seems to me that it is another person that is speaking that; “…Muhammad is his prophet” and not the words of God himself attesting that Muhammad is “my” prophet.

There is a radical difference between Muhammad and Jesus because God Himself, from his own words say; “This (Jesus) is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased” attesting to the fact that Jesus is his Son. (emphasis added)

Pio
 
40.png
Faith101:
We dont know everything about God. But we do know (from the previuous messengers, and scriptures) that He is One. We have 99 names to decribe God (given to us by God himself). We know Him through them and through His revelation…however we can NOT presume to know evertying about God…this is not what i am proposing.

What i am saying is, what we DO know should be something everyone can understan…or else, why have we been given a brain?

What’s the point of a brain if we already understand? The brain is there to teach us the ways of truth. According to your thesis, we know all we need to know about God, and therefore He is not a mystery. Doesn’t this idea undermine the concept of rationality? Understanding God isn’t necessary for salvation, because if it were, no one would be saved. Shouldn’t we search for God, and seek to understand Him? Why bother with seeking truth if all we need to know we already know?

The truth is elusive, all the philosophical and theological arguments prove this point. If God is Truth, then don’t you think understanding Him would be elusive too? We can’t know everything about God.

The Trinity is not something that we NEED to understand. Understanding it has nothing to do with our salvation. Quite simply, belief in the Trinity requires faith.

Here’s a way to conceive of it. If you look at your hand right now, you will see five fingers, fingernails, a palm, and a wrist. That is surface knowledge of the hand. You know it functions, you can move it, and can use it the way you want. However, your hand is much more complicated than that.

Your hand requires blood flow to operate, so it needs your heart. The blood is dependent on your stomach, liver, lungs, etc. The movement of your hand requires your brain, spinal chord, nerves, electrical signals, etc. Now, looking at your hand, on its surface, you would never know the inner mysteries that make it function unless you questioned it, and then studied it.

Let’s move this analogy to God. If God is the hand (this is not completely analogous because we can know everything about the hand, but not about God), and you can only see the surface, that is sufficient for your salvation, so long as you believe what the inner mysteries are on the basis of trust. That is basically what all Christians do in regards to the Trinity. There are inner mysteries to God beyond the surface. Part of what makes God, God is precisely because there are things about Him that we cannot understand.

Yes, God gave us rationality so we could know Him and seek Him, but that doesn’t mean we have to understand. In fact, Jesus said we had to be as innocent as children to inherit the kingdom. The reason we have to be innocent is because we cannot know everything about God, our minds are to finite. The more we attempt to know, the more it is we realize we don’t know. So God tells us to simply trust Him.

Since Jesus spoke of HImself in Trinitarian terms, I trust like a child, because I know there are mysteries to God. The concept of a Trinity, which we cannot wrap our minds around, makes God demonstrably God. It says to us, “You cannot know everything about Me. I am larger than your rationality because I gave you rationality.” It’s part of the proof that He is God.
 
beautifulislam.com/intro/names_of_god.htm
  1. He is God; there is no god but He. He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God; there is no god but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of the Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God, the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the Almighty, the All-Wise. (59:22-24)
2.There is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows what lies before them, and what is after them, and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His throne comprises the heavens and earth. The preserving of them oppresses Him not; He is the All-High, the All-Glorious. (2:255)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top