Christ as God in the Bible (evidence for our Muslim members)

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What are you getting at? If you mean that Allah forgives sin, does not need sacrifice etc, I think Jesus’ sacrifice has something to do with the Jew’s sacrifces for atonement for sin, as a “replacement.” I don’t know though. I urge you to go to Ask an Apologest.
 
I wasn’t getting at anything. I randomly found this a few minutes ago and I thought it would be interesting to share.

btw; what do you mean by an Apologest, I saw this on this site but didn’t know what it means.

wa salam
 
An Apologest is someone who defends the faith. Many of the people here are up-and-coming ones, or are interested in sharpening their apologetic skills. Ask an Apologest is where you make the Title a question, then elaborate on the post. An apologest (some people who work for CA or perhaps they only volunteer…) will sometimes answer it-we can be pretty sure that they know what they are talking about. Thats why I ask you to ask them. They know more than most of the people here about this stuff, or at least little ol’ me.🙂
 
Do you know where the term Apologest comes from because the first time I saw it I thought it meant apology as in saying your sorry.

wa salam
 
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fatuma:
The church also believed once that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around it. Just because the church says it, doesn’t mean it is true and that is where we come to a stand off.
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This teaching was never held as a dogma (absolute truth) of the church. If it was, I’d like to see the ecumenical council or Ex Cathedra statement that made it such. Otherwise, I’m correct in stating that we were never required to believe in geocentrism (the teaching about the earth stated in your quote) in the first place. Happy research! 😃
 
I second to exoflare questions to fatuma.

Where is that teaching? Can you give us a source.

I would suspect fatuma had read those footnotes expressing the comments of theologians at the bottom of the Bible. To let fatuma know, IT IS NOT CHURCH TEACHING.

Happy research, Fatuma. Give us a doctrinal statement coming from the church.

Pio
 
He was caught into the myths of the Church. I sent him the tract of Galileo earlier, so he understands the Church’s stance now.
 
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jjwilkman:
john 8:58
“before abraham came to be, I AM”
that’s pretty definitive.
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I would have been more appropriate to say " Before ADAM came to be, I AM".
As it is stated, Jesus could have been anyone between Adam and Abraham.

In God’s plan, we all came into existence in the same time. God who created time is not subjected to it, otherwise He is not God because God cannot be subjected to His creation.

The only explanation I found for the above verse is that Jesus meant he was a prophet the same way Abraham was.

Please note that some translations use “was” in lieu of “came to be”, showing the bias of the translators trying hard to give the verse a meaning of existence or coming to life.

Joseph.
 
I have a hard time believing this, because this is what is drummed into you at school.That the chruch belived that the earth was flat. But if you people say that this is wrong and you since provided links to back up your claim, then I will say ok.
You see this is the reason why I am on this forum, to teach and to be taught. I would also like the some curtsy applied to my fellow Muslims and me muslims on this site. When you all, say point A and we tell you it is incorrect here is proof from the Quran or haidth or from knowledgeable Muslim, then pleases read with an open heart and give us the curtsy that I give you.

wa salam
 
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fatuma:
You know I always wanted to know, that is God died for your sins does that mean that there is no more sins on earth? Or is it that when you believe that God died for your sins, then all of your sins are forgiven? And does this mean that He only died for the sins of thoes who believe in Him? Beacuse I’m thinking if God died for mankinds sins, then that means there are no more sins, no need for Hell and everyone goes to heaven.

wa salam
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Obviously there are still sins on earth, we witness them everyday. The Bible says that Jesus died “once for all,” and that He came for the salvation of “many.”

The sacrifice of the cross was sufficient for all, but will actually only save “many.” The sacrifice of the cross also requires a conversion of heart and a willingness to follow God (i.e. works.) Basically, every human being COULD be saved by the sacrifice, but not every human WILL be, based on their own free will.

As for whether or not the sacrifice is for those who believe, the Church teaches that there are three forms of Baptism. Baptism by water (normal means), by blood (martyrdom for Christ or others), and by desire.

The Church teaches that baptism by desire is when one has no contact with Christ or Christianity, but still attempts to live rightly according the natural law written on their hearts (conscience.) The thief on the cross is a prime example of baptism by desire.

However, to be safe, I would say stick with belief in Christ and follow the auspices of the Church He started. That is a means He instituted for our salvation, and therefore probably the only fool proof means of attaining salvation.

Also, I don’t know if you are familiar with the book of Leviticus and the sacrifices Israel made for atonement (or even when Abraham was to offer up his son, but God gave him a ram instead), but all of those are precursors to Christ; the unblemished male Lamb who takes away the sins of the world.
 
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fatuma:
I have a hard time believing this, because this is what is drummed into you at school.That the chruch belived that the earth was flat. But if you people say that this is wrong and you since provided links to back up your claim, then I will say ok.
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That’s okay. Just about everybody at that time believed the earth was flat, and the belief was generally accepted by the church. However, we’re not obligated to believe anything that isn’t dogma. There are some things Catholics believe that are set in stone (dogma), and some things are doctrines of the church but not infallible teachings.
 
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fatuma:
Do you know where the term Apologest comes from because the first time I saw it I thought it meant apology as in saying your sorry.

wa salam
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The word ‘apologist’ comes from the greek ‘apologia,’ meaning, ’ to give a reason for.’ An apologist gives reasons for a certain position. In this case, the apologist would be explaining the Catholic view. 1 Peter 3:15 says that we should always be ready to give a reason for the hope that is in us, and that’s basically what Catholic apologists try to do. Justin Martyr, considered one of the first Catholic apologists, wrote a “First Apology” and a “Second Apology” in the sense of apologetics, not as in saying sorry.

I’m not sure, but I assume that apology as in saying sorry is derived from the same word.
 
Thanks Grace and Glory, that’s makes sense. 👍

My belief in the sacrifice that Abraham(as) was to makes was not for sin or removing of it, it was a test to see if he would obey God. Abrahman (as) loved his son and God tested him to see if he would give up something he loved with all his heart for the sake of God. Wearing of the hijab is similar to this. You are giving up something (hair, which is a form of beauty) for the sake of God.

wa salam
 
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fatuma:
Thanks Grace and Glory, that’s makes sense. 👍

My belief in the sacrifice that Abraham(as) was to makes was not for sin or removing of it, it was a test to see if he would obey God. Abrahman (as) loved his son and God tested him to see if he would give up something he loved with all his heart for the sake of God. Wearing of the hijab is similar to this. You are giving up something (hair, which is a form of beauty) for the sake of God.

wa salam
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I thought that the wearing of the hijab was so that the opposite sex was not tempted??? Hijab is the head covering, right?
 
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fatuma:
Thanks Grace and Glory, that’s makes sense. 👍

My belief in the sacrifice that Abraham(as) was to makes was not for sin or removing of it, it was a test to see if he would obey God. Abrahman (as) loved his son and God tested him to see if he would give up something he loved with all his heart for the sake of God. Wearing of the hijab is similar to this. You are giving up something (hair, which is a form of beauty) for the sake of God.

wa salam
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I read somewhere that sometimes the obligatory pilgrimage to Mecca that every Muslim has to make if they are able sometimes involves animal sacrifices too. Is that true? It’s the only time I’ve heard of Islam possibly involving animal sacrifices.
 
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Faith101:
Ryan, you will have to present your point of view to God when (after a long healthy life) you stand in front of him to be judged. Make sure you have it figured out in your head 100 percent.
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Hmm, this interesting. WHy would anyone have their view of God figured out 100%? God is, after all, eternal and infinite and so surpassing complete comprehension by man (although he can certainly be understood to some extent).
Ive come to the conclusion that i will never understand the trinity, and as a Muslim, I can live with that. I just hope it makes sense to you
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If you are at all interested in understanding the doctrine of the Trinity I would suggest reading a book by Frank Sheed called Theology of Sanity. Sheed does a great job with explaining the Trinity in terms that do away with all of the common errors and that makes the actual doctrine graspable.

BTW, and this isn’t meant as an insult or anything, if you are trying to understand the Trinity, do not read the Qur’an on the topic. While there are several anti-Trinitarian passages in the book, when it presents what the teaching of the Trinity is supposed to entail it is wrong, i.e., all Christians would repudiate the understanding of the Trinity that the Qur’an presents!

Gray Mouser
 
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