Christ is everything

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I believe Jesus Christ is everything for the Christian. All of the unsearchable riches are found in Christ. All of the promises are yes in Christ. I am confused why the Catholic Church is so important to Catholics when Christ is everything to the Christian. Do you want to help me understand why the Catholic Church is so important to Catholics when our life is hidden in Christ?
Because the Church is the Body of Christ. Deny this, and you deny Scripture.

Of course, if Christ were really “everything” in a way that excluded the Church, He would also be “everything” in a way that excluded Scripture. So maybe you don’t care about Scripture either. But if you care about Scripture, you should certainly care about the Church.

Edwin
 
The Church is the Body Of Christ, established by Jesus with Peter as the first pope, and is the pillar of all truth.
Why do you guys want to talk about Peter and not Jesus, especially in light of the thread topic. Do you love your church denomination more than the living Christ?
 
The Church is not a denomination. Denominations are those communities that split off from the Curch. Did you miss the part where I said that Jesus estalished the Church? Just wondering? To love the Church is to love Christ.
 
No, I posted several times that the Roman Catholic way of salvation is by grace, faith, and Christ. For clarification, the life and death of Jesus Christ are both significant for the Christian. If Jesus did not merit God’s favor by His perfect obedience, we would not have the righteousness of Christ. Therefore, I understand the importance of Christ to the Roman Catholic Christian. Within justification, God does not declare a Roman Catholic to be finally and permanently justified until that person actually become just by cooperating with God through the sacraments, correct? The Roman Catholic Christian is never declared just on the sole basis of the life and death of Christ, correct? The key to salvation is to access the means of justifying grace merited by Christ, kept in the Treasury of Merit and dispensed by the Catholic Church through the sacraments. Please correct or confirm my understanding at this point. The Roman Catholic way of salvation is not that easy to understand, even many Roman Catholic Christians seem confused too.
Let me see if I understand what you are saying.

Your model of salvation: Jesus died for us, we are all saved. Is that correct?

Catholics hold that we are justified by the Works of Jesus Christ. However, we hold that being Justified is not the same as being saved. In order to be saved, we must cooperate with the Holy Spirit. this means living the life of service spelled out by Christ in the Gospel. This means living the sacraficial life. It is all tied in together. The Treasury of Merit IS NOT a guidebook on salvation. It is a way for man to understand one part of the faith. The Sacraments distribute Grace even if the concept of the Treasury of Merit did not exist. However, Jesus did talk about storing up your treasures in heaven. Paul talks about using our sufferings to help others.

I really think that in order for you to understand what we are saying, you need to understand what we are saying.

We must be Justified. No human cooperation is needed.

We must be sanctified. This is the daily cooperation between us and the Holy Spirit. We find aid in the Sacraments and prayers of others.

If we die after being justified and in a state of sanctification, we will be saved.
 
Let me see if I understand what you are saying.

Your model of salvation: Jesus died for us, we are all saved. Is that correct?

Catholics hold that we are justified by the Works of Jesus Christ. However, we hold that being Justified is not the same as being saved. In order to be saved, we must cooperate with the Holy Spirit. this means living the life of service spelled out by Christ in the Gospel. This means living the sacraficial life. It is all tied in together. The Treasury of Merit IS NOT a guidebook on salvation. It is a way for man to understand one part of the faith. The Sacraments distribute Grace even if the concept of the Treasury of Merit did not exist. However, Jesus did talk about storing up your treasures in heaven. Paul talks about using our sufferings to help others.

I really think that in order for you to understand what we are saying, you need to understand what we are saying.

We must be Justified. No human cooperation is needed.

We must be sanctified. This is the daily cooperation between us and the Holy Spirit. We find aid in the Sacraments and prayers of others.

If we die after being justified and in a state of sanctification, we will be saved.
Thanks Ralph for your time and effort for what you have posted. For clarification, I don’t believe in universal salvation for all. Jesus died for all means all who are part of the actual body of Christ. If you posted official Roman Catholic teaching, it sure doesn’t line up with this:

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. - Romans 5

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Christ is everything to the Christian!
 
Why do you guys want to talk about Peter and not Jesus, especially in light of the thread topic. Do you love your church denomination more than the living Christ?
and i ask you again, would you ask the same to a JW? when a JW tells you Jesus is not God, does the scripture you use to refute them become more important than Jesus?
 
Thanks Ralph for your time and effort for what you have posted. For clarification, I don’t believe in universal salvation for all. Jesus died for all means all who are part of the actual body of Christ. If you posted official Roman Catholic teaching, it sure doesn’t line up with this:

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. - Romans 5
Actually, it does line up. Read the last part: it separates Justification from Salvation. It uses the term reconciled as justified.

You must also remember that Paul can only be understood by reading Christ first. Jesus teaches that those who do the will of the Father are the ones that are saved. Does Paul agree or disagree?
 
Actually, it does line up. Read the last part: it separates Justification from Salvation. It uses the term reconciled as justified.

You must also remember that Paul can only be understood by reading Christ first. Jesus teaches that those who do the will of the Father are the ones that are saved. Does Paul agree or disagree?
Nobody is able to do the will of the Father perfectly with the exception of Jesus Christ. That’s my whole point of the thread. Jesus is everything to the Christian because we do not walk in the will of the Father perfectly. Christ did not come to abolish the law, but to fufill the righteous requirement of the law for us. That is why we should love Christ more than our churches.

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“The Scriptures cannot be broken” - The Lamb of God

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Romans 8
 
I’m sorry, I didn’t understand your question. Please try again.

The Lord is our mighty Rock!
when a JW brings his Bible and tells you Jesus is not God, don’t you use scriptures to refute him? does it mean using scripture is more important than Jesus? no but you have to use something to refute his false teachings about Jesus exactly because what Jesus said and did is of utmost importance.

likewise, not anyone can use scripture and know everything correctly, so we talk about the church that Jesus established, because Jesus is important. Take the example of the Eucharist, some made a joke out of it, but we use scriptures and Tradition *because *Jesus is the most important. If anyone is free to interpret as he wishes, then Jesus is not that important, even though the person might be sincere, but sincerely misled.
 
when a JW brings his Bible and tells you Jesus is not God, don’t you use scriptures to refute him? does it mean using scripture is more important than Jesus? no but you have to use something to refute his false teachings about Jesus exactly because what Jesus said and did is of utmost importance.

likewise, not anyone can use scripture and know everything correctly, so we talk about the church that Jesus established, because Jesus is important. Take the example of the Eucharist, some made a joke out of it, but we use scriptures and Tradition *because *Jesus is the most important. If anyone is free to interpret as he wishes, then Jesus is not that important, even though the person might be sincere, but sincerely misled.
You must have a fun time with that kind of sharing with Mormons.
 
Nobody is able to do the will of the Father perfectly with the exception of Jesus Christ. That’s my whole point of the thread. Jesus is everything to the Christian because we do not walk in the will of the Father perfectly. Christ did not come to abolish the law, but to fufill the righteous requirement of the law for us. That is why we should love Christ more than our churches.

Future Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Romans 8
So tell me, according to the words of Jesus, and only Jesus, who will go to heaven?
 
So tell me, according to the words of Jesus, and only Jesus, who will go to heaven?
The best that I can do on short notice. - John 6

I Am the Bread of Life
22 On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone. 23 Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. 24 So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and went to Capernaum, seeking Jesus.

25 When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you come here?” 26 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. 27 Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread [3] the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 Jesus [4] said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.

The Words of Eternal Life
60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. 67 So Jesus said to the Twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” 71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.
 
You must have a fun time with that kind of sharing with Mormons.
you name it, Mormon or JW, it doesn’t matter but Jesus does 😉 that is why we do not only rely on scriptures (which can be twisted by anyone) but on the Church who held the apostolic teachings *because *Jesus is the Head of the Church. hope you understood my answer now.🙂
 
The best that I can do on short notice. - John 6

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Ah, yes, those who participate in the Eucharist. Good one. I love the Gospel of John.

I am partial to Matt 25:31-46
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37"Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40"The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44"They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45"He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Notice who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?

It is not about being perfect, it is about being a follower of Christ. We ask forgiveness when we fail. However, we must DO what God asks of us.
 
It’s interesting that most of you would rather discuss the Roman Catholic Church instead of the living God. Jesus Christ is at the right hand of the Father interceeding for those who are Christians.
If you met someone who lived all Jesus’s teachings except one, would you not insist that they work harder on the one?

Doing so wouldn’t mean you think that one teaching is more important than Christ himself, would it?

If you think we always think about the Catholic Church more than Christ, you’re wrong. Exploring other threads on this site could reveal this. You’ll find we are quite passionate about Jesus as well 😉
 
you name it, Mormon or JW, it doesn’t matter but Jesus does 😉 that is why we do not only rely on scriptures (which can be twisted by anyone) but on the Church who held the apostolic teachings *because *Jesus is the Head of the Church. hope you understood my answer now.🙂
But do you see the dilemma when you share with the JW organization and Mormon missionary? You have no basis of divine authority. The Mormon missionary is telling you that the Roman Catholic Church is apostate, and God restored His church through modern day prophets. The Mormons claim that exact same thing that you are claiming. But, thank you for sharing with the JW and Mormon missionaries. They too need to understand that the Christ found in the Bible is everything to the true believer.
 
If you met someone who lived all Jesus’s teachings except one, would you not insist that they work harder on the one?

Doing so wouldn’t mean you think that one teaching is more important than Christ himself, would it?

If you think we always think about the Catholic Church more than Christ, you’re wrong. Exploring other threads on this site could reveal this. You’ll find we are quite passionate about Jesus as well 😉
I like this thread because it forces all of us to speak about the central figure of Christianity. Christ is the central figure of Christianity. I like to see the passion Christians really have for Jesus Christ.
 
Ah, yes, those who participate in the Eucharist. Good one. I love the Gospel of John.

I am partial to Matt 25:31-46

Notice who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?

It is not about being perfect, it is about being a follower of Christ. We ask forgiveness when we fail. However, we must DO what God asks of us.
We all sin and fall short of the glory of God as Christians. So, what happens when we don’t do all God command us to do as Christians?
 
We all sin and fall short of the glory of God as Christians. So, what happens when we don’t do all God command us to do as Christians?
If we allow ourselves to hear the Holy SPirit, we will repent of that sin, strive to do better, and keep working out our salvation with fear and trimbling (a little Paul action for you).

If not, if we stay persistant in our failures, we will be lost.
 
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