Christian Denomination that believes/teaches faith AND works

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aidanbradypop said:
I am Evangelical and believe that I am saved by Grace trough faith in Jesus Christ. People do wonderful things everyday that do not believe in Jesus. They are very charitable and loving towards mankind. We can all produce ā€œgood fruitā€ but by becoming a disciple of Jesus, I am)commanded to do so. Go above and beyond the average non believer. Not because I believe it will get me closer to heaven but because Christ commanded such actions and I am responding in love.

My name is Dustin btw. Pleasure meeting you.
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You too, Dustin. God bless. You can call me Matt. As to the above, though, where then do you differ with the Catholic/Orthodox understanding of justification?
 
aidanbradypop said:
In this life God prunes the tree. On judgment day the tree is cut down.
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Then that must mean that our ultimate destiny at the resurrection of the dead is connected with whether we produce fruit. In that sense, it cannot be by faith alone.
 
Per_Crucem said:
You too, Dustin. God bless. You can call me Matt. As to the above, though, where then do you differ with the Catholic/Orthodox understanding of justification?
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Justification is the forgiveness of sins when one places their faith in Jesus Christ as the Lord of their life.
Per_Crucem said:
Then that must mean that our ultimate destiny at the resurrection of the dead is connected with whether we produce fruit. In that sense, it cannot be by faith alone.
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What I mean by that is God, through the Holy Spirit, constantly calls us to him. I may be a good tree, yet my sin will surely produce a bad piece of fruit here and there. Does God cut me down. No. He prunes me so that I shall continue to produce good fruit.
 
SteveVH said:
Isnā€™t that kind of the whole point? So we get pruned now only to be thrown into the fire in the end? What good did the pruning do? šŸ¤·
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If God prunes you, yet in your sin you continue to produce bad fruit then one could argue if you were truly a good tree to begin with. Correct?

Steve I am not in the OSAS camp.
 
For people not in the OSAS camp but still believe in faith alone, I canā€™t understand how this is even logically consistent. If we can be condemned through ā€œbadā€ works, then the parallel would be that works indeed play an important part in our salvation.

We are indeed saved by grace alone, but you then canā€™t separate faith and works. So my question is how is Faith Alone even a possible position to hold logically?
 
spiderweb said:
For people not in the OSAS camp but still believe in faith alone, I canā€™t understand how this is even logically consistent. If we can be condemned through ā€œbadā€ works, then the parallel would be that works indeed play an important part in our salvation.

We are indeed saved by grace alone, but you then canā€™t separate faith and works. So my question is how is Faith Alone even a possible position to hold logically?
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Our works are response to what has already occurred in our lives. God, through the death of Jesus, saves us. We are then called to action so to speak. We are commanded to spread the Gospel. You can do that in many ways that include feeding the poor or church planting. When a Protestant hears a Catholic talk about works, they get the impression that you working for salvation. In a sense that goes against the belief that salvation is a free gift from God that we are in no way worthy of.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Justification is the forgiveness of sins when one places their faith in Jesus Christ as the Lord of their life.

What I mean by that is God, through the Holy Spirit, constantly calls us to him. I may be a good tree, yet my sin will surely produce a bad piece of fruit here and there. Does God cut me down. No. He prunes me so that I shall continue to produce good fruit.
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even a little salt in freshwater is still salt waterā€¦

James 3:10-12
 
aidanbradypop said:
Our works are response to what has already occurred in our lives. God, through the death of Jesus, saves us. We are then called to action so to speak. We are commanded to spread the Gospel. You can do that in many ways that include feeding the poor or church planting. When a Protestant hears a Catholic talk about works, they get the impression that you working for salvation. In a sense that goes against the belief that salvation is a free gift from God that we are in no way worthy of.
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And I would agree with all of this, but this is not Faith Alone. What you are describing is the Catholic position of faith and works. I donā€™t think you will ever hear a Catholic talk about Work Alone.
 
aidanbradypop said:
So God cannot change the heart of a unbeliever? Not sure I understand where you are going
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I understand that Catholics, like Lutherans, believe that it is by Godā€™s GRACE alone that we are saved - BUT we define our response to that grace in different ways. Or put the accent on a different syl-LA-ble as it seems to me.

We are made anew with Godā€™s gift of Grace, redeemed by the suffering and death of Christ. If we are indeed new, and forgiven, the workings of the Holy Spirit will be evidenced in our fruit/works that are good in Godā€™s eyes.

So if we arenā€™t doing these good works after receiving grace, well, maybe we should worry about being thrown into the fire. His works/our works = not the same.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Our works are response to what has already occurred in our lives. God, through the death of Jesus, saves us. We are then called to action so to speak. We are commanded to spread the Gospel. You can do that in many ways that include feeding the poor or church planting. When a Protestant hears a Catholic talk about works, they get the impression that you working for salvation. In a sense that goes against the belief that salvation is a free gift from God that we are in no way worthy of.
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Your first part is exactly what the Catholic faith believes. Why you think that a Catholic would go off to works leading to salvation is a misunderstanding on your part. You used the correct terms ā€œwe are then called to actionā€ and ā€œwe are commandedā€. These are not options, and if you refuse to do them, you no longer have the grace of Christā€™s sacrifice, you crucify Christ again as scripture says. At judgement if we ended our lives not doing what we were called to, we will be cast out of Godā€™s kingdom. You seem to think the way the Church has taught for 2,000 years, why you think that we believe something different now must be that you have talked to the wrong people. God bless you, you seem you have figured something out that many will never discover.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Justification is the forgiveness of sins when one places their faith in Jesus Christ as the Lord of their life.
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For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fatherā€™s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. - Matt 16:27

ā€œBehold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done." - Rev 22:12

Justification is more than the forgiveness of sins. It is the life of Christ manifest in each Christian, in union with Christ, through baptism.
 
TheSeeker2014 said:
IS there are Christian Denomination that teaches and believes that both FAITH AND WORKS are needed?

James 2:14-26 faith without works is dead.
Ephesians 2:8-10 faith and grace alone.
James 2:24 righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Would they not go hand n hand? (faith grace and works)
Should not faith and works sow each other naturally?
.
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Every Christian Faith Tradition with the exception of the Protestants have always believed this. Christ clearly taught it. Not until the Protestants 1600 years after Christ did anyone teach anything different.
 
Ignatius said:
Every Christian Faith Tradition with the exception of the Protestants have always believed this. Christ clearly taught it. Not until the Protestants 1600 years after Christ did anyone teach anything different.
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Ok so everything but Protestants teach both and they go hand n hand?

I have been to many protestant churches while growing up and only two I have attended say that they go hand in handā€¦
hmmm
Thanks everyoneā€¦ I have alot of thinking/research to doā€¦
 
spiderweb said:
And I would agree with all of this, but this is not Faith Alone. What you are describing is the Catholic position of faith and works. I donā€™t think you will ever hear a Catholic talk about Work Alone.
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Very close but there difference is that my works do not save me. My faith in Jesus Christ saves me by the Grace of God. No work(s) saves me but are my response to God in love.
 
Stilldreamn said:
I understand that Catholics, like Lutherans, believe that it is by Godā€™s GRACE alone that we are saved - BUT we define our response to that grace in different ways. Or put the accent on a different syl-LA-ble as it seems to me.

We are made anew with Godā€™s gift of Grace, redeemed by the suffering and death of Christ. If we are indeed new, and forgiven, the workings of the Holy Spirit will be evidenced in our fruit/works that are good in Godā€™s eyes.

So if we arenā€™t doing these good works after receiving grace, well, maybe we should worry about being thrown into the fire. His works/our works = not the same.
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šŸ‘

But those works in and of themselves do not save you right?
 
So, Iā€™ll reword my previous post and ask againā€¦

Why do some people insist on faith alone, when they do not actually believe that it is faith alone? Why do some people reject the Catholic position when they know that the Catholic position of faith and works is biblical, valid, and that they themselves believe it?

I just donā€™t get itā€¦ Am I missing something?
 
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