Christian Denomination that believes/teaches faith AND works

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Ok I hope this is posted in the correct area…

IS there are Christian Denomination that teaches and believes that both FAITH AND WORKS are needed?

James 2:14-26 faith without works is dead.
Ephesians 2:8-10 faith and grace alone.
James 2:24 righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Would they not go hand n hand? (faith grace and works)
Should not faith and works sow each other naturally?

I ask this because I know the big argument with Protestant vs. Catholism is that one is by faith and grace alone and the other is by works… but I do not believe things are black and white and there is gray area…
I was curious if there is a denomination that does teach and believe both and who… and/or if there are denominations that does teach both but are falsely accused of just one or the other.
 
KjetilK said:
Well, the Roman Catholic Church does.

Most Lutheran churches who actually follow Lutheran teaching does too.
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Actually, it includes the entire Catholic Church as well as the Orthodox, not just the diocese of Rome. 😉 That means that the great majority of Christians believe this.
 
SteveVH said:
Actually, it includes the entire Catholic Church as well as the Orthodox, not just the diocese of Rome. 😉 That means that the great majority of Christians believe this.
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For myself, it was taking a fresh, hard look at the contents of the NT, to honestly see whether my belief as a Lutheran was consistent with the entirety of the words of Christ and His apostles. It was hard to admit (and still is) that it wasn’t.
 
Per_Crucem said:
For myself, it was taking a fresh, hard look at the contents of the NT, to honestly see whether my belief as a Lutheran was consistent with the entirety of the words of Christ and His apostles. It was hard to admit (and still is) that it wasn’t.
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That’s called “integrity”. :clapping:
 
Our faith in Jesus Christ saves us. Works are not include in the saving act, yet a good tree produces good fruit. An Evangelical Pastor, Chip Ingram, described it best IMO. “Our faith in Jesus saves us, yet if we do not live out that faith it will become a empty faith.”

Our works do not save us so that no man shall boast, yet if we claim to have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, we should live as he commanded us to live. Acts of charity strengthen our faith and makes God’s creation a better place.

Not sure you will find any Christian faith tradition that does not think good works of faith are not required or need. My 2cents:)
 
aidanbradypop said:
Our faith in Jesus Christ saves us. Works are not include in the saving act, yet a good tree produces good fruit. An Evangelical Pastor, Chip Ingram, described it best IMO. “Our faith in Jesus saves us, yet if we do not live out that faith it will become a empty faith.”

Our works do not save us so that no man shall boast, yet if we claim to have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, we should live as he commanded us to live. Acts of charity strengthen our faith and makes God’s creation a better place.

Not sure you will find any Christian faith tradition that does not think good works of faith are not required or need. My 2cents:)
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The times that Jesus Himself speaks about justification, he doesn’t mention faith. Rather, per Jesus, we are ‘justified’ by our words (Matt. 12:37) and by genuine, humble repentance (Luke 18:9-14). Not to deny that we are justified by faith; we are. Very noteworthy that Jesus uses that language in connection with works alone, however.
 
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Per_Crucem said:
The times that Jesus Himself speaks about justification, he doesn’t mention faith. Rather, per Jesus, we are ‘justified’ by our words (Matt. 12:37) and by genuine, humble repentance (Luke 18:9-14). Not to deny that we are justified by faith; we are. Very noteworthy that Jesus uses that language in connection with works alone, however.
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Proclamation that Jesus is Lord and Savior could quite possibly be the greatest words one could ever speak. I believe that a good tree should put forth good fruit. Even Baptist believe that. As I stated above, you would be pressed to find a denomination that is completely against doing good. That is basic human morality 101. The divide comes when some take a more Pharisees view of it. Our works matter because our reward in Heaven will depend on our deeds here when we stand before the Seat of Judgment. I am an Evangelical and believe that what good we produce is reflective of our faith.
 
TheSeeker2014 said:
I ask this because I know the big argument with Protestant vs. Catholism is that one is by faith and grace alone and the other is by works… but I do not believe things are black and white and there is gray area…

I was curious if there is a denomination that does teach and believe both and who… and/or if there are denominations that does teach both but are falsely accused of just one or the other.
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Just to clarify the Catholic position is that we are saved by grace alone through faith working in love. In a nutshell Ephesians 2:8-10.

Some other faith communities within my local area that also believe this are the Amish and Mennonite. Many people may not consider them Christian but they definitely are.
 
aidanbradypop said:
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Proclamation that Jesus is Lord and Savior could quite possibly be the greatest words one could ever speak. I believe that a good tree should put forth good fruit. Even Baptist believe that. As I stated above, you would be pressed to find a denomination that is completely against doing good. That is basic human morality 101.
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Understood. However, the New Testament understanding of works and how they relate to salvation are far, far deeper than mere human morality. Christianity is not a system of morals or ethics. It is fundamentally about eschatological transformation. This is why works are part of salvation/justification.
The divide comes when some take a more Pharisees view of it. Our works matter because our reward in Heaven will depend on our deeds here when we stand before the Seat of Judgment. I am an Evangelical and believe that what good we produce is reflective of our faith.
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The Pharisees were not criticized by Christ for teaching that works affect our relationship with God. They were criticized by Christ for teaching false, dead works, based on human tradition; and later, by the apostles (vis a vie the Judaizers) for teaching that Gentiles must abide by the Mosaic Law, which was ended by the blood of the cross.
 
C.S. Lewis is said to have written: “Arguing whether ‘faith’ or ‘works’ is more important, is like arguing which blade in a pair of scissors is more important.”
 
Per_Crucem said:
Understood. However, the New Testament understanding of works and how they relate to salvation are far, far deeper than mere human morality. Christianity is not a system of morals or ethics. It is fundamentally about eschatological transformation. This is why works are part of salvation/justification.

The Pharisees were not criticized by Christ for teaching that works affect our relationship with God. They were criticized by Christ for teaching false, dead works, based on human tradition; and later, by the apostles (vis a vie the Judaizers) for teaching that Gentiles must abide by the Mosaic Law, which was ended by the blood of the cross.
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Agree with everything you just wrote. :eek: lol

IMO, they are part of salvation as being the good fruit the good faith.
 
Aslan10 said:
C.S. Lewis is said to have written: “Arguing whether ‘faith’ or ‘works’ is more important, is like arguing which blade in a pair of scissors is more important.”
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Lol gotta love that guy.

I believe everyone would say they both are important.
Debating whether not both are need for salvation is probably the best debate
 
aidanbradypop said:
Agree with everything you just wrote. :eek: lol

IMO, they are part of salvation as being the good fruit the good faith.
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Then you would have to deny that justification before God is sola fide, if you agreed with the above, as defined by traditional Protestant understanding (meaning the Lutheran/Reformed paradigm). Not all of Protestantism embraces such, of course (see for example N. T. Wright, whose writings on the subject are genius).

Reducing it to simply an issue of bearing good fruit is to miss about 80% of the NT, aidan.
 
Just to jump in to the discussion (because I usually learn something everytime I read others faith regarding this topic). And I am curious as to your specific question to non Cats.

I think they are inseperable in the greater sense. But Faith precludes works. This is important in knowing that Jesus does His work in and through us as oppose to us working to meet Him. Faith justifies outside our works in the sense that Jesus fullfilled what God required of mankind. But faith that saves through trials and to the end, accomplishes what began as conversion of heart.

This is Taught from John the Baptist, to Jesus, to Paul.
**Matthew 3
**
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sad′ducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bear fruit that befits repentance,

**Matthew 31-46 **The Judgment of the Nations

Acts 26

19 “Wherefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those at Damascus, then at Jerusalem and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God and perform deeds worthy of their repentance.
 
Per_Crucem said:
Then you would have to deny that justification before God is sola fide, if you agreed with the above, as defined by traditional Protestant understanding (meaning the Lutheran/Reformed paradigm). Not all of Protestantism embraces such, of course (see for example N. T. Wright, whose writings on the subject are genius).

Reducing it to simply an issue of bearing good fruit is to miss about 80% of the NT, aidan.
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I am Evangelical and believe that I am saved by Grace trough faith in Jesus Christ. People do wonderful things everyday that do not believe in Jesus. They are very charitable and loving towards mankind. We can all produce “good fruit” but by becoming a disciple of Jesus, I am)commanded to do so. Go above and beyond the average non believer. Not because I believe it will get me closer to heaven but because Christ commanded such actions and I am responding in love.

My name is Dustin btw. Pleasure meeting you.
 
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