Christian Marriage Bed Ethics

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(name removed by moderator) said:
. Sexual pleasure is not the end of the marital act; procreation is. It is not permissible to seek sexual pleasure outside of its procreative purpose

If it is not permissible to seek sexual pleasure outside of its procreative purpose then Catholics must be sinning when they practice NFP because that is saving sex for the time in which they conciously know that pregnancy will not occur.

If this is not a complete double standard then please explain how it is not. Thanks.
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This is arguing that God made women in such a way as they are set up to be continually unfulfilled during marital relations.

Seems odd.
 
lanman87 said:
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humbleseeker:
Because those “loving acts” alluded to are a lie communicated through your body.
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Why is it a lie to serve my spouse? Isn’t service an act of love.
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Luke 4
8 And Jesus answering said to him: It is written: Thou shalt adore the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
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Wow, so it is a sin to have a servants heart toward someone other than Christ? That is a pretty big stretch considering pretty much everything in Christianity is about serving God and others.

For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Galatians 5:13-14
 
lanman87 said:
Wow, so it is a sin to have a servants heart toward someone other than Christ? That is a pretty big stretch considering pretty much everything in Christianity is about serving God and others.

For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Galatians 5:13-14
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Service to God only will mean love of God and neighbor.

Mark 12
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.
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If a married Catholic couple enjoy sexual relations with the " intention of not conceiving" then it seems to be happening for the decided pleasure of it. And that is a God given gift to both men and women that are married. Our bodies are wonderfully made.
 
LumineDiei said:
I couldn’t find it on the Vatican site, other than in French, Spanish, and Italian.
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This piqued my curiosity and I went to read the French version (interspersed with a few Latin paragraphs). Now I obviously don’t have problems with French ( :crazy_face:), my Latin is passable albeit rusty.
LumineDiei said:
there was NOTHING about foreplay within marriage, touching each other before or during the marital embrace, or anything of the kind.
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I didn’t see it either.

It does discuss masturbation, but in the context of its liceity in order to procure semen for IVF. (Hint: it’s not licit.)
Is there something here I’ve missed?

(And here I was thinking I was done with CAF… 😅)
 
This was asked about in my husband’s highschool class in the late 90s to a Catholic priest who taught there. We live in a moderate size city, in a relatively conservative midwestern diocese. The priest essentially said that other stimulation can happen beforehand-for men and women-as long as it ends with the husband ejaculating in the wife. He said that the Church tries to stay out of the specifics of married couples sex lives other than to say that much.
 
Of course a married couple may have sex for the pleasure of it, they just can’t separate the act from it’s procreative nature.

This is why the terminology is not “sex must be done with the intent of procreation,” but “sex must be ordered towards procreation.” The couple doesn’t have to make sure that every sexual act is done for the purposes of procreation, but they must make sure that they are open to the gift of pregnancy with every act. That’s true even for completely infertile couples.
 
There is a matter of interpretation in delineating one act from another: whether or not the manual stimulation is the same act or a different than to the completion. If I recall correctly, according to magisterial documents, each completed intercourse, resulting in an orgasm, is a complete act in itself and cannot be combined in moral judgment with other intercourses starting earlier or later. As for parts, it is not so clear.
 
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This is where these threads sometimes end up - suggestions declaring that which is required for the act to occur is illicit.
 
lanman87 said:
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1ke:
The sixth commandment encompasses all sins against chastity and marriage.
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Adultery means Adultery. To say otherwise is to add to the text a biased opinion.
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And yet Christ said that lusting after someone is committing adultery, so clearly the commandment goes beyond the physical act.
 
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