Christian Marriage Bed Ethics

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The second sentence in that paragraph indicates otherwise. That is not what he said at all.
 
No, but if you were married for any amount of time you would understand that your moral principles don’t work in the real world God created.

Are they just theory for you?
 
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Nothing justifies an accusation of heresy based on a disagreement about this subject.
 
The ignorance of human sexuality from people attempting to give advice on the matter never ceases to amaze me.
 
As I said, interesting.

My remarks haven’t been snide. They have been honest. This is a forum, for discussion.
 
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Are you married? Yes, that does have everything to do with this, if you are not ordained Catholic priest or deacon.
 
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So to stimulate a partner for the purposes of readying him or her to complete a “normal” act doesn’t fall under this definition? At least that’s how I read it.
 
“Getting into the mood” is not the same as orgasm. And, for a female, not being “in the mood” can end up being very painful and possibly damaging. For a male, not being “in the mood” is basically game over. So yes, it very much can apply.
 
You’ve refuted your position right here in your own post.

This is saying that the talked-about activity is disordered if not part of of the sexual relationship inside marriage.

To paraphrase a commercial from a year or two ago and apply to the way you are proposing couples engage in the marital embrace:

This isn’t how it works. This isn’t how any of this works.
 
lanman87 said:
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On the contrary, our point is that that is what spouses should strive to do at all times, not just in bed. That means giving a total gift of self, not a partial one.
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I agree is should be all the time in everything. But we aren’t talking about all the time. We are talking about specific circumstances. Also, sometimes a partial gift may be a total gift, because it may be all the person is capable of at that time.
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Giving all of yourself that you are capable of at the time is striving to be a total gift of love. Deliberately withholding a part of yourself that you are capable of giving is not. This is one of the major differences between an infertile couple engaging in the act and and a fertile couple sterilizing the act.
 
The idea of contraception, as an example, was summarily opposed by virtually all Christian groups a century ago. This is because it managed to limit the purpose of sex to only pleasure. The whole thing has to do with continence, in having control over ones body instead of being slaves to it- and slaves to the changeable values of the world.
 
If that here isn’t objectification (making one of the sexual partners a means to an aim, regardless of how they feel about it), then I don’t know what is.
 
Just to clear, you are referring to me?

I was hoping for a little more nuanced and intelligent conversation than if I don’t agree with you you call me a heretic and a false teacher.
 
In the context of this thread, though. Hmmm.

Well, I’m confident I’m telling the truth, so no hard feelings.
 
Personally, I don’t think it has to be over-complicated.
I believe it ultimately boils down to “make love not have sex”.
Think passionate feelings, vs sex just for sex sake.

Ignore “rule books” because that’s not very sexy is it 😉

But, at the same time, I have to be honest and say that your terms of “serving your spouse” sounds creepy to me. Somehow you have confused love with “service”, but a husband/wife is not a gas pump…

Like most thing in life, the middle ground is the best way - neither neurotic nor self-serving.
 
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