Christian Truths are Christian Truths! Most Christians are Catholic and they don’t realize it.

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These statements make it look you didn’t read what I posted or I was not clear. I will try again. Yes there have been popes who have made mistakes in their own morality. No pope is infallible. Period! We are human, even the Pope!

After the pope meets with his bishops and discusses issues of faith and morals, he may choose to make an Official statement of the teachings of the Catholic Church on Faith or Morals. This is not the Pope’s personal opinion. The Holy Spirit guides the leaders of the Church. Catholics do not believe anything the pope says or does is infallible.

Since you brought it up, please give examples and/or references to Popes making an official statement related to faith/morals that is incorrect.
Transubstantiation, for example. And not that the intent, as I understand it, was wrong. There were those who were denying the Eucharist, and the church felt a need to respond, to protect the mystery of Christ’s true body and blood therein. The tue faith of the real presence. Transubstantiation takes defending the mystery one step further into trying to explain it. I think that was a mistake.
Once again, I agree that the HS guides the pope and bishops. I think he guides Lutheran and EO and other Christian leaders as well. My prayer is He will guide them closer together.
 
It is well known that Protestants don’t believe in Transubstantiation. It is one of the biggest issues that separates us. I don’t expect to convince you that it is real. I’ll leave that to Eucharistic miracles.
 
Fasting on Fridays or during Lent

There are many “Protestants” and non-Catholic Christians who have a problem with fasting on Fridays and during Lent, yet, the “Diet Industry” is a multi-billion dollar industry. Where are all those who are against “fasting”, when it come to the “Diet Industry”? Is this one of those things, which is generally accepted for the purposes of vanity but not accepted for Catholics?

Does anyone see a pattern devoloping here?
Jimmy, you are the best, THE BEST! :knight1: :knight2:
 
Jimmy, you are the best, THE BEST! :knight1:
Righteousone, you are the best, THE BEST!

… I am thankful and glad that there are other Catholics like you who are here who help me defend our faith.

Sometimes it seems like we are completely surrounded.

:mad: :mad: :knight2: :highprayer: :knight1: :mad: :mad:
 
It is well known that Protestants don’t believe in Transubstantiation. It is one of the biggest issues that separates us. I don’t expect to convince you that it is real. I’ll leave that to Eucharistic miracles.
It is not just protestants, the Orthodox don’t express the real presence in this way, either. What I do believe is real is the true and substantial body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. To the extent that Transubstantiation is the Catholic expression of that real presence is fine by me. It is not my place to condemn the belief. Lutherans and Orthodox express it in different ways.
I will leave myself open to the Eucharistic miracles and the HS to convince me. And if that happens, Amen.
 
It is not just protestants, the Orthodox don’t express the real presence in this way, either. What I do believe is real is the true and substantial body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. To the extent that Transubstantiation is the Catholic expression of that real presence is fine by me. It is not my place to condemn the belief. Lutherans and Orthodox express it in different ways.
I will leave myself open to the Eucharistic miracles and the HS to convince me. And if that happens, Amen.
I have to say I do agree with what you have said i do believe that only the RCC believes in it. And I also do agree that some times the Holy Spirt has a way of opening our hearts up, and gives us understanding, and it is the only way understanding can be achieved. I really do believe that. Its just so hard for a RC to understand because we have this understanding. But you are right it has to come from God. And believe it or not some RC dont understand it. But you are right, I guess it was a gift God gave me that i just didnt realize unill i learned other faiths. But you did give an beautiful response. And i pray i does happen some day for you.
 
I have to say I do agree with what you have said i do believe that only the RCC believes in it. And I also do agree that some times the Holy Spirt has a way of opening our hearts up, and gives us understanding, and it is the only way understanding can be achieved. I really do believe that. Its just so hard for a RC to understand because we have this understanding. But you are right it has to come from God. And believe it or not some RC dont understand it. But you are right, I guess it was a gift God gave me that i just didnt realize unill i learned other faiths. But you did give an beautiful response. And i pray i does happen some day for you.
Thank you for that. It is easy to give thoughtful responses when people like Believe_85 and yourself come to these threads and discuss, explain their points of view, and try to understand mine without criticism and condemnation.
I’d also say that some people seem to think Jimmy just puts out bait threads. I don’t think so, as he, too, seems very respectful and charitable.
 
Thank you for that. It is easy to give thoughtful responses when people like Believe_85 and yourself come to these threads and discuss, explain their points of view, and try to understand mine without criticism and condemnation.
I’d also say that some people seem to think Jimmy just puts out bait threads. I don’t think so, as he, too, seems very respectful and charitable.
🙂 We are glad you are here! I worry every time I post that the message will come off as rude since you can’t include tone of voice in text 😊 I think Jimmy baits sortof, but not in a malicious way, to point out how wrong people are…more to spark debate and discover gaps in communication. I like it. That’s how my husband first began to question his faith and eventually converted. So I see good in it if the intent is in the right place. That’s my opinion. 🙂
 
🙂 We are glad you are here! I worry every time I post that the message will come off as rude since you can’t include tone of voice in text 😊 I think Jimmy baits sortof, but not in a malicious way, to point out how wrong people are…more to spark debate and discover gaps in communication. I like it. That’s how my husband first began to question his faith and eventually converted. So I see good in it if the intent is in the right place. That’s my opinion. 🙂
Thanks, Believe_85. I sensed no rudenss in your posts. You asked very probing and important questions. I hope I answered them in the same respectful manner, respectful not only to you personally, but to the Catholic faith as well.
If Jimmy baits, I think it is an attempt to disspell misconceptions of the Catholic faith. And he does a good job, from what I can tell, of presenting catholicism. Of course, Catholics would be a better judge of that. 🙂
 
Well Jim how did you do? I see you are still alive, did you seem to get anything across? My old man got ten on you, i got ten on the comp. sorry. But you know women we hate to lose. Keep going bud.
 
These are college students. They’re up until midnight anyway. They also eat a lot of Taco Bell, especially when they’re getting food late at night, so yeah. I don’t think it’s a huge craving for meat, more a “I want this food and it has meat in it so I can’t eat it till after midnight.”

The whole thing seems legalistic to me. Then again, I’m not Catholic. I would definitely consider fasting on my own though.
I have stayed up until midnight to have a chicken wing.

If I give up meat on a Friday, I give up meat on Friday. If I am hungry on Friday, and all that’s in the fridge are Thursday’s leftover wings, I have a choice:

  1. *]break my fast; or
    *]wait.

    I choose to wait.

    I see no legalism. I think legalism comes into the picture when people try to “max out” what they can have to stay within the letter of the law, but not its spirit. Like going to an all-you-can-eat sushi bar. Or being a vegetarian and then “giving up” meat on Friday.

    I see more penitential effort in someone who subsists on a ham sandwich and nothing else on a Friday than someone who pigs out on a 3-pc fish with large chips-dressing-‘n’-gravy and a side of onion rings from Ches’s.
 
**Christian Truths are Christian Truths! Most Christians are Catholic and they don’t realize it. **

What I mean is, that we share many of the same beliefs, the only difference is, .in many cases it comes down to the wording. Much of non-Catholic Christianity is an exercise in semantics and word games, anti-Catholic word games. Word games in which, non-Catholic Christians are involved in “Catholic behavior”; they just won’t use the “Catholic words” to describe that behavior. Additionally, many non-Catholic Christians share “Catholic beliefs”; they just won’t use the “Catholic words” to describe those “Catholic beliefs”.

This (in many cases), is caused by an anti-Catholic element, built into many non-Catholic Christian denominations, where Christians are conditioned to resist or avoid anything “Catholic”. This creates a problem for many, in “connecting the dots”. One cannot “connect the (Christian) dots” if one leaves out all of the “Catholic dots”. All of this creates division and confusion…

I have many examples of this and I will post them on separate posts and if you disagree, please let me know. Keep in mind that there are literally thousands of different non-Catholic Christian denominations, so my comments in most cases will apply to “some” Christian denominations and not to “all” Christian denominations.

If what I post here catches your attention or applies to your beliefs or denomination, then please provide a response from your point of view or particular Christian perspective. Also, please post the post number that you are addressing so that we can all follow your argument.

**Doesn’t this post collide with what some Catholics have said, to the effect that Protestants do not have faith…? :cool: IMHO, your first paragraph is spot on 🙂 **​

 

**Doesn’t this post collide with what some Catholics have said, to the effect that Protestants do not have faith…? :cool: IMHO, your first paragraph is spot on 🙂 **​

Hello Gottle of Geer,

Thank you for your post.

In a perfect world, all Catholics and all Christians would agree on all Christian beliefs…but unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world …However, everything that is true and good in any religion, represents truth and goodness because real truth and real goodness never changes.

All Truth and All Goodness originate from God.

All properly Baptized Christians are, in this sense, “brothers and sisters in Christ”.

We all share Christian Truths; however, Catholicism represents the Full Deposit of Faith.

The serious error committed by some Christians, occurs when that person learns about a Christian Truth and then willfully and knowingly rejects that Truth.

Peace 🙂
 
A friend and I were reading those words of Jesus recently and I notice that the setting was Jesus speaking only to the Apostles. this started me wondering if maybe the protestants aren’t making an error in thinking that this refers to all Chrictians.

Could it be that Jesus was speaking about the Magisterium? Maybe he meant that when the bishops gather to consider a question that they would be lead by the Holy Spirit.
👍
 
If you really think and i mean truely think about this, everyone you talk to that has had any religion will be related to someone that was Catholic, a great gram whatever. Someone in the family broke off from the RCC. ITs impossible not to. Now what is the RCC about the ten commandments and respect. Thats really it. Now who is our Father really God. Who is our Mother the Blessed Mother. Jesus said that hanging on the cross. Who really fights about scripture, they really dont, its the church they fight about not letting them turn scripture into what they want. But the only reason goes back to the ten commandments, Honor your Mother and Father. They dont want to, How many people today broke off from the RCC. Now how many today dont respect their Mother and Dad. How many dont even talk to them. How many dont even respect old people. There you have it, They want to do what they want. And a good Mother and Father is going to say no if it is going to hurt their kid, And so is the RCC. They have your best interests at heart.
 
As a former Protestant who has recently converted to Catholicism, I think the one thing that really is different is the notion of Faith in the Catholic Church. I wasn’t ready for what a huge change it would be.

For a Catholic, Faith is the Faith of the whole Church, it means accepting what the Church believes, accepting that faith in Christ is also the faith of Christ. It’s not just about what I can personally understand, it’s something much bigger than that. My faith builds up the faith of the whole Church, and when my own understanding fails or my own faith is shaken, the faith of the whole Church, in heaven and on earth, is there to back me up.

In a Protestant context, you can have faith in Christ while choosing what to believe about almost everything in the world. In theory, we should choose based on that faith, and on reason, but in reality, many people, myself included (and I’m a Philosophy graduate and doctoral student), just don’t have the mental discipline to arrive at the right faith based on our own reason alone. That’s why there are so many disputes.

I think the tipping point for me was the realisation that Protestantism had built up its’ own canon of Tradition in the last 500 years, because our personal reason needs an interpersonal dimension to avoid error, but that the canon of Protestant Tradition just wasn’t as good as the Catholic canon.

Still, it’s a different starting point as to what faith means, and where it comes from. That’s a pretty big difference.

Scripture and purified reason will eventually lead you to the truth, but it’s taking the long way round.

I am very grateful to the Protestant reformers, they thought they could see an error, where the Church had gone astray, so they went back and worked it out for themselves, starting after the 7 Ecumenical Councils. 500 years later, they have come to very similar conclusions to the Catholic Church (5 point Calvinism is almost dead, as is anti-Catholic hatred, there’s a rediscovery of monasticism in many protestant churches, the notion of authority in the Church is being rediscovered, etc.), and have had to work hard to catch up, but their conclusions tend increasingly towards unity with Catholic truth, and provide a whole different set of proofs for our one shared Christian faith.
 
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