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gt8952b
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What a fantastic sentiment! Amen Brother.
Christian unity: Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox unity possible; unity with Protestants impossible
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Mannyfit75
Guest
I am weary of approved private revelations. They are required for the faithful to believe. Church teaches does say they are worthy of belief. You got some Catholics here devote to the message of Fatima while some are more devoted to St. Faustina’s Divine Mercy Message that she received from Jesus Christ in the 1930s.
I do think Fatima could be worthy of belief, but I think in this current age. God’s mercy is needed. So I have devoted myself of preaching the Divine Mercy and praying the Divine Chaplet on a regular rosary bead.
We all should prepare for God’s Judgment that could be on the Last Judgement Day or on the moment of our death.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
The source of authority in the Catholic Church is God. He has revealed himself to us through his Divine Revelation in the person of Jesus Christ. I do not believe this is a flawed thinking. Before the Reformation, the doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide is completely alien to the Early Church Fathers. Just read their memoirs.
I also believe that you misunderstand Catholic Church teaching on authority. It is not just the Pope. There is trinitarian element to Catholic Church. Authority lies from Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Magisterial Authority (Teaching Office of the Church, the Pope in UNION with all the Catholic Bishops).
Your post indicate that we submit to the Pope Alone! That is a major misunderstanding of your part.
I recommend you read or listen to Fr. Corapi, who insist and repeatly told his students that "Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Magisterial Teaching are one. Without Sacred Scripture, there is no Sacred Tradition, and no Magisterial Teaching. Without Sacred Tradition, there is no Sacred Scripture, and no Magisterial Teachinn. They are depend upon one another.
If this were true, then Rome would not be in dialogue with various traditions since Vatican II. With all respect, yours is an artifical limit, not based on what is actually happening, or could happen.
The likelihood of Lutherans coming into communion with Protestants that are not sacramental is far, far smaller than with Rome. The notion that all Protestants come from the same reformational roots is faulty. IOW, Lutherans were never joined with calvinists or Baptists, and the like in the first place, and our differences with some of them are greater than those we have with you. That said, there is movement between Lutherans and Anglicans - Porvoo and Call to Common Mission, etc.
Jon
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Mannyfit75
Guest
It’s speculation and the unification for Christian unity is a process. For example, I believe it was around the 19th Century or 18th Century that a small portion of the Eastern Orthodox reunited with Rome. These are uniate Churches.
Not to mention that Schismatic Church that just reunited with Russian Orthodox Church. I do not recall which one… It was an old article I read.
I would like clearly somethings in this thread. I have stated unification with Protestantism and Catholicism is unlikely and that Eastern Orthodox is likely to happen. However, by relying on ourselves, unity will not be possible. All Christians should pray for unity and God will answer the call.
I do not know the exact detail with this unity comes but I think it might be close, especially when Islam starts to threaten the souls of billions of people.
Consider the political reaction when all Christians are united in One Church. I think the Muslims would be in for a shock of their lives.
Then again, some Evangelical Christians who adheres to Rapture, might view this One world Church as against God. That is kinda foolish thinking…
Jon
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Hesychios
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Harpazo
Guest
I think brother Manny could possibly be referring to the Eastern Catholic Churches? I personally see it happening the other way around.
In Christ,
Andrew
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Hesychios
Guest
I think brother Manny could possibly be referring to the Eastern Catholic Churches? I personally see it happening the other way around.
In Christ,
Andrew
I think the Eastern Catholic churches should be granted full autocephaly, so that they can dialog freely with the Orthodox unencumbered and without duress from the central office.
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trophybearer
Guest
Never.
On your side, Josaphat Kuntsevych needs the title “Saint” removed from his name and replaced with his proper title, “The butcher of the Orthodox”…
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Hesychios
Guest
Our friend Material does not realize that Saint Photios is a pre-schism saint. In other words he belongs to the Roman Catholic church as much as to the Eastern Orthodox church.
And they should be proud of him!
He launched the missions (with extensive preparations) which evangelized half of Europe under his protege’s Cyril and Methodios.
And, he fathered a Pope! Who wouldn’t be proud to see his own son land that appointment?
Why, what could be more Catholic than that?
http://www.comeandseeicons.com/p/nbo01.jpg
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SonofMonica
Guest
sigh. More past… what about the now? What about God? You folks were not alive when these people committed these acts. What about being the Church? What about forgiveness?
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trophybearer
Guest
Unity at the expense of orthodox belief is a perverse unity.sigh. More past… what about the now? What about God? You folks were not alive when these people committed these acts. What about being the Church? What about forgiveness?
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SonofMonica
Guest
I’m not talking about giving up doctrine. I’m talking about forgiving past wrongs and atrocities and focusing on what can be expended besides doctrine for the sake of unity.
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Hesychios
Guest
Hey, I forgive!sigh. More past… what about the now? What about God? You folks were not alive when these people committed these acts. What about being the Church? What about forgiveness?
Anyway, there is a lot of love between us. My entire family, including my parents (God rest their souls) and my children (that’s how I raised them) are Roman Catholics. I love them all.
I am thankful for my Roman Catholic upbringing, it carried me through some dark times and taught me my values which hopefully make me a good Christian. No regrets whatever
Roman Catholicism taught me to kiss the Bible when I open it, and when I close it, I still do. Roman Catholicism taught me to pray for others, even those who despise me, this I still do. Roman Catholicism first taught me the Good News, and it is a thing of joy! I learned my scripture recited in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and in the CCD class (that’s what it was called then). I learned to read the Bible, and learned to love it. I learned the importance and meaning of the sacraments, and I learned to love Our Lord and Savior.
I will always be grateful.
This always seems to be the concern when it comes to dialogue: “we can’t give up doctrine”. I really don’t think any of our respective leaders intend to sell the farm for unity.
But I do think doctrine can be explained in new ways, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that permits convergence on doctrine.
Jon
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SonofMonica
Guest
Aye. :aok:
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Matariel
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Huh? Never heard of him. I’ll have to look into it to make sure you’ve not been told a one-sided story. Photius, however, was illegally elevated through caesaro-papism, unfortunately, and at one time was a heretic, if I remember correctly.Never.
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Matariel
Guest
Huh? It appears that St. Jpsephat K. was butchered by Eastern Orthodox who took and axe to him and shot him… he was on the recieving end of the persecution.
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Hesychios
Guest
What you will learn depends upon your sources, and I don’t think it is wise to restrict oneself entirely to Catholic or Orthodox sources.
What is clear is that he was an extremely violent an intolerant man, and he reached a violent and regrettable end.
It seems that he had no people skills, and he was warned about that by his own co-religionists. As it is said…one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar, and just when the Union of Brest needed to win the hearts and minds of the Orthodox in Poland, he was persecuting them. He did have a great opportunity and blew it.
His legacy was such that in the region where he operated, there are virtually no Eastern Catholics today. As soon as the border shifted and the kingdom of Poland was no longer able to prop it up the Unia fell apart. Much like Anglicanism collapsed among the Irish when the British government decided not to support it legally and financially any longer.
Bishop Jazafat Kuncevič is, of course, a popular saint for Polish people. But his own people, the Belorussians…the children of his diocese, revile his memory.
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Hesychios
Guest
Contrary to anything you may remember reading, Saint Photios was never a heretic. His theology was perfectly Orthodox, the same as that proclaimed by Saint John of Damascus (a Doctor of your church and completely Orthodox) and as that proclaimed by modern Holy Orthodoxy over one thousand years later.
Pope John VIII, Pope Marinus, Pope Adrian III and Pope Stephan V were all in communion with him in succession.
If you wish to make an issue of Ceasaro-Papism (something the RC knows intimately well) you should know that it was the scourge of Roman Catholicism for many hundreds of years, infecting the Papacy and many Metropolitan Sees for centuries.
So if one should say the Roman Catholic church knows corruption when it sees it, they would be quite right!
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