Christian Unity

[JonNC]

=Lek;12383038]Christian unity will never come about by one side fully accepting the beliefs of the other. Unity will only occur if we can come to together as a body and accept that we have different opinions concerning doctrine, but are still all members of Christ’s church.

I think I can agree that we are all members of Christ’s Church, but disagreement on doctrine seems contrary to full unity.

A large number of protestants can accept this concept, but I don’t think the catholic church will ever come to that point. If it hadn’t been for the secular power of the CC, I feel pretty certain that there would have been numerous break offs long prior to Luther’s time. Prior to Luther the CC was able to put a stop to any such attempts.

Well, maybe except for one really big schism in the 11th century.

Concerning possible unity between the CC and the Anglicans and Lutherans: On the outside they appear similar in many ways, but on the inside the differences are very profound, especially pertaining to the Lutherans. I would be fine with seeing a reunion, but it surprises me that anyone would think that there’s a chance that Lutherans would abandon sola scriptura and “faith alone”.

Full unity doesn’t come from someone “abandoning” a teaching. It comes from being guided by the Spirit in prayerful dialogue, and the steps taken these last 50 years between Lutheran and Catholics have been significant, even in these two areas.
There’s lots out there now - not doctrinal agreement - but dialogue-based groeing convergence on such topics. Example:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html#Scripture_and_tradition
Now, there’s a good bit here that needs lots of work, and I’m not trying to paint a rosy picture, but the chance of reconciliation between Lutherans and Catholics may be as strong as between Anglicans and Catholics, or Orthodox and Catholics.

Jon

 

[Kliska]

“We proceed along the road leading to the conversion of hearts guided by love which is directed to God and, at the same time, to all our brothers and sisters, including those not in full communion with us. Love gives rise to the desire for unity, even in those who have never been aware of the need for it. Love builds communion between individuals and between Communities. If we love one another, we strive to deepen our communion and make it perfect. Love is given to God as the perfect source of communion—the unity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit—that we may draw from that source the strength to build communion between individuals and Communities, or to re-establish it between Christians still divided. Love is the great undercurrent which gives life and adds vigour to the movement towards unity.” Ut unum sint, JPII



1 Corinthians 13: 1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy , they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly , but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

 

[Peter_J]

 

[Randy_Carson]

“We proceed along the road leading to the conversion of hearts guided by love which is directed to God and, at the same time, to all our brothers and sisters, including those not in full communion with us. Love gives rise to the desire for unity, even in those who have never been aware of the need for it. Love builds communion between individuals and between Communities. If we love one another, we strive to deepen our communion and make it perfect. Love is given to God as the perfect source of communion—the unity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit—that we may draw from that source the strength to build communion between individuals and Communities, or to re-establish it between Christians still divided. Love is the great undercurrent which gives life and adds vigour to the movement towards unity.” Ut unum sint, JPII



1 Corinthians 13: 1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy , they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly , but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (Cyprian of Carthage, The Unity of the Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251]).

 

[Tomdstone]

… the scriptures actually refer to PERFECT unity.

I don’t see perfect unity in the Roman Catholic Church. There are Catholics who believe in limbo, and there are those who do not believe in limbo. At Mass, when the creed is said, there are Catholics who say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and there are Catholics who say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son.
There are Catholic women who believe that women should wear headcovering at Mass, although most do not believe this. There are Catholics who make the sign of the cross from left to right, while others go right to left. There are differences on capital punishment.Etc.

 

[guanophore]

Christian unity will never come about by one side fully accepting the beliefs of the other. Unity will only occur if we can come to together as a body and accept that we have different opinions concerning doctrine, but are still all members of Christ’s church.

What you are describing here, Lek, is what presently exists.

You are right, unity will never happen if we accept that there can be different opinions about doctrine. Jesus taught one unified faith, and that One Faith was delivered to His One Church. He has protected it by the power of His Holy Spirit. Unity comes from adherence to the Truth. None of us are free to have “different opinions about doctrine”. On the contrary, we are to hold fast to the One Faith committed to us by the Apostles.

" As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine…" 1 Timothy 1:3–4

A large number of protestants can accept this concept, but I don’t think the catholic church will ever come to that point.

You are right, none of the Churches founded by the Apostles are at liberty to abandon the deposit of faith for “a different gospel”.

If it hadn't been for the secular power of the CC, I feel pretty certain that there would have been numerous break offs long prior to Luther's time.  Prior to Luther the CC was able to put a stop to any such attempts.

Even before the secular authority, many doctrines we see arising again today were defeated soundly as heresies.

There were many “break offs” from the first century to the present day. They need to be defeated by a return to the Apostolic faith, and you are right, secular authority will not work!

Concerning possible unity between the CC and the Anglicans and Lutherans:  On the outside they appear similar in many ways, but on the inside the differences are very profound, especially pertaining to the Lutherans.  I would be fine with seeing a reunion, but it surprises me that anyone would think that there's a chance that Lutherans would abandon sola scriptura and "faith alone".

I used to think this too, but in my dialogue here with Lutherans, I have come to realize that the evangelical meaning I was taught (it is really more “solo” scriptura) is not the one espoused by Lutherans. It is actually much more Catholic than what is found in many non-denoms.

Honestly, though, many others and I already believe that there is one church that is in unity as followers of Christ, regardless of denomination.

Yes, this is the teaching of the CC, all who are properly baptized are considered Christians and members of His One Body, ,the Church. But the divisions that exist are not God’s will for us, so we must work to become unified in doctrine as well as in Spirit.

23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.John 17:23–24

 

[guanophore]

This one should be enough. If you truly believe this you will be led by the Holy Spirit. God has already decided on these points.

Romans 10:9-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Peace to you.

I agree with you, God has already decided on these points. The issue is our perceptions of what He has revealed. By what authority is this scripture more important than any other scripture?

Loving one another is the greatest commandment…,

And how is it loving to allow your siblings in Christ persist in error? What did Jesus tell us to do if we had something against our brother (like departing from the Apostolic faith)?

I don’t see perfect unity in the Roman Catholic Church. There are Catholics who believe in limbo, and there are those who do not believe in limbo. At Mass, when the creed is said, there are Catholics who say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and there are Catholics who say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son.

There are Catholic women who believe that women should wear headcovering at Mass, although most do not believe this. There are Catholics who make the sign of the cross from left to right, while others go right to left. There are differences on capital punishment.Etc.

You are right, Tomdstone, there are many Catholics who were never taught properly, have abandoned the doctrines of the faith, or are in rebellion against them. Truth and the unity that flows from it, however, are not defined by those who depart from it. The unity of the Apostles was not changed by the fact that Judas abandoned his office.

All but one of these “disagreements” you mention above are not doctrinal, but just practices and customs, so they are all irrelevant with regard to differences in doctrine. The filoque is a major issue.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I don’t see perfect unity in the Roman Catholic Church. There are Catholics who believe in limbo, and there are those who do not believe in limbo. At Mass, when the creed is said, there are Catholics who say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and there are Catholics who say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son.

There are Catholic women who believe that women should wear headcovering at Mass, although most do not believe this. There are Catholics who make the sign of the cross from left to right, while others go right to left. There are differences on capital punishment.Etc.

Because of the divisions within Protestantism, its advocates typically do not attempt to defend the indefensible. Instead, they commonly resort to a form of tu quoque (Latin, “You are also!”) argument in which they attempt to tar Catholics with similar disunity.

For example, they might say, “Look at the Dominicans and the Jesuits. They typically hold different views of predestination. This shows that Catholics as well as Protestants disagree on essentials, and thus are no more credible than Protestants.”

In response, a number of points may be made:

1. Catholicism has a functioning magisterium that can decide that these matters are not essential differences.
2. The relevant schools adhere to the teachings of the magisterium and, if their views were reprobated, would accept the results (or cease to be faithful Catholics).
3. The differences between Catholic schools of thought have nowhere near the magnitude of the difference among Protestant schools. Compared to the differences among Protestant groups, differences among orthodox Catholic groups are trivial.
4. The fact that the Catholic Church has a magisterium means that there can be—and on the most important theological matters there is—an official Catholic position. There is no parallel standard in Protestant circles that can speak for Protestantism.

Other times, advocates of Protestantism will attempt to construct a parallel argument against Catholics by pointing to the existence of ostensible Catholics who refuse to acknowledge the magisterium’s teachings.

In response, it should be pointed out that the difference among Catholic dissidents is frequently far less than among individuals in the sweep of Protestant belief. Furthermore, individuals’ refusal to accept the magisterium’s teachings does not challenge the Christ-given authority of the magisterium any more than the refusal to accept some of Paul’s teachings undermines Paul’s authority as an apostle. Moreover, Protestant churches also have individuals who refuse to honor the teachings of their denominations. The difference is that for Catholicism there is a body—the bishops teaching in union with the pope—who “speak for the Church” and who can articulate what “the Catholic position” is, while in Protestantism there is nothing comparable.

 

[Kliska]

"11. The Catholic Church thus affirms that during the two thousand years of her history she has been preserved in unity, with all the means with which God wishes to endow his Church, and this despite the often grave crises which have shaken her, the infidelity of some of her ministers, and the faults into which her members daily fall. The Catholic Church knows that, by virtue of the strength which comes to her from the Spirit, the weaknesses, mediocrity, sins and at times the betrayals of some of her children cannot destroy what God has bestowed on her as part of his plan of grace. Moreover, “the powers of death shall not prevail against it” (Mt 16:18). Even so, the Catholic Church does not forget that many among her members cause God’s plan to be discernible only with difficulty. Speaking of the lack of unity among Christians, the Decree on Ecumenism does not ignore the fact that “people of both sides were to blame”,13 and acknowledges that responsibility cannot be attributed only to the “other side”. By God’s grace, however, neither what belongs to the structure of the Church of Christ nor that communion which still exists with the other Churches and Ecclesial Communities has been destroyed.

Indeed, the elements of sanctification and truth present in the other Christian Communities, in a degree which varies from one to the other, constitute the objective basis of the communion, albeit imperfect, which exists between them and the Catholic Church.

To the extent that these elements are found in other Christian Communities, the one Church of Christ is effectively present in them. For this reason the Second Vatican Council speaks of a certain, though imperfect communion. The Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium stresses that the Catholic Church “recognizes that in many ways she is linked” 14 with these Communities by a true union in the Holy Spirit." Ut unum sint, JPII

1. For this reason, the Council’s Decree on Ecumenism also emphasizes the importance of “every effort to eliminate words, judgments, and actions which do not respond to the condition of separated brethren with truth and fairness and so make mutual relations between them more difficult”.54 The Decree approaches the question from the standpoint of the Catholic Church and refers to the criteria which she must apply in relation to other Christians. In all this, however, reciprocity is required. To follow these criteria is a commitment of each of the parties which desire to enter into dialogue and it is a precondition for starting such dialogue. It is necessary to pass from antagonism and conflict to a situation where each party recognizes the other as a partner. When undertaking dialogue, each side must presuppose in the other a desire for reconciliation, for unity in truth. For this to happen, any display of mutual opposition must disappear. Only thus will dialogue help to overcome division and lead us closer to unity. Ut unum sint, JPII

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

 

[Randy_Carson]

John 17:20-23
20 “My prayer is not for them alone.** I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one**, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

From Dominus Iesus:

1. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him.58 The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches.59 Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church.60

On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,61 are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.62 Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church.63

“The Christian faithful are therefore not permitted to imagine that the Church of Christ is nothing more than a collection — divided, yet in some way one — of Churches and ecclesial communities; nor are they free to hold that today the Church of Christ nowhere really exists, and must be considered only as a goal which all Churches and ecclesial communities must strive to reach”.64 In fact, “the elements of this already-given Church exist, joined together in their fullness in the Catholic Church and, without this fullness, in the other communities”.65 “Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66

**The lack of unity among Christians is certainly a wound for the Church; not in the sense that she is deprived of her unity, but “in that it hinders the complete fulfilment of her universality in history”.67
**

 

[Kliska]

1. No one is unaware of the challenge which all this poses to believers. They cannot fail to meet this challenge. Indeed, how could they refuse to do everything possible, with God’s help, to break down the walls of division and distrust, to overcome obstacles and prejudices which thwart the proclamation of the Gospel of salvation in the Cross of Jesus, the one Redeemer of man, of every individual?

I thank the Lord that he has led us to make progress along the path of unity and communion between Christians, a path difficult but so full of joy. Interconfessional dialogues at the theological level have produced positive and tangible results: this encourages us to move forward.

Nevertheless, besides the doctrinal differences needing to be resolved, Christians cannot underestimate the burden of long-standing misgivings inherited from the past, and of mutual misunderstandings and prejudices. Complacency, indifference and insufficient knowledge of one another often make this situation worse. Consequently, the commitment to ecumenism must be based upon the conversion of hearts and upon prayer, which will also lead to the necessary purification of past memories. With the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Lord’s disciples, inspired by love, by the power of the truth and by a sincere desire for mutual forgiveness and reconciliation, are called to re-examine together their painful past and the hurt which that past regrettably continues to provoke even today. All together, they are invited by the ever fresh power of the Gospel to acknowledge with sincere and total objectivity the mistakes made and the contingent factors at work at the origins of their deplorable divisions. What is needed is a calm, clear-sighted and truthful vision of things, a vision enlivened by divine mercy and capable of freeing people’s minds and of inspiring in everyone a renewed willingness, precisely with a view to proclaiming the Gospel to the men and women of every people and nation. Ut unum sint, JPII

1. There can be no ecumenism worthy of the name without a change of heart. For it is from renewal of the inner life of our minds,(28) from self-denial and an unstinted love that desires of unity take their rise and develop in a mature way. We should therefore pray to the Holy Spirit for the grace to be genuinely self-denying, humble, gentle in the service of others, and to have an attitude of brotherly generosity towards them. St. Paul says: “I, therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace”.(29) This exhortation is directed especially to those raised to sacred Orders precisely that the work of Christ may be continued. He came among us “not to be served but to serve”.(30)

The words of St. John hold good about sins against unity: “If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us”.(31) So we humbly beg pardon of God and of our separated brethren, just as we forgive them that trespass against us.

All the faithful should remember that the more effort they make to live holier lives according to the Gospel, the better will they further Christian unity and put it into practice. For the closer their union with the Father, the Word, and the Spirit, the more deeply and easily will they be able to grow in mutual brotherly love.

1. This change of heart and holiness of life, along with public and private prayer for the unity of Christians, should be regarded as the soul of the whole ecumenical movement, and merits the name, “spiritual ecumenism.” Unitatis Redintegratio

Amen.

1 John4:29 Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you .

And Amen.

 

[Lek]

This one should be enough. If you truly believe this you will be led by the Holy Spirit. God has already decided on these points.

Romans 10:9-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Peace to you.

As pointed out, there is not “perfect” unity within the CC. There is unity in that all catholics have faith in Jesus Christ. If every christian complies with the above verse, then there is “perfect unity” within Christ’s church in that we’re all united as his followers. That’s were the unity comes from, not from whether we all agree that Mary was born without original sin or some other doctrine. The verse is very simple to comprehend. Even though the US is made up of republicans, democrats, independents, etc, we’re united as Americans. Being united doesn’t necessarily mean that we all necessarily share the same specific beliefs on every issue.

 

[adf417]

As pointed out, there is not “perfect” unity within the CC. There is unity in that all catholics have faith in Jesus Christ. If every christian complies with the above verse, then there is “perfect unity” within Christ’s church in that we’re all united as his followers. That’s were the unity comes from, not from whether we all agree that Mary was born without original sin or some other doctrine. The verse is very simple to comprehend. Even though the US is made up of republicans, democrats, independents, etc, we’re united as Americans. Being united doesn’t necessarily mean that we all necessarily share the same specific beliefs on every issue.

So where do the JW’s fit? Are they united in Christ as you and I are? They certainly believe in the verse above. Here is where you will extrapolate further meaning from the verse, attempting to eliminating the JW’s from unity and rightfully so as the Gospel is much more than one verse.

Peace!!!

 

[Tomdstone]

As pointed out, there is not “perfect” unity within the CC. There is unity in that all catholics have faith in Jesus Christ. If every christian complies with the above verse, then there is “perfect unity” within Christ’s church in that we’re all united as his followers. That’s were the unity comes from, not from whether we all agree that Mary was born without original sin or some other doctrine. The verse is very simple to comprehend. Even though the US is made up of republicans, democrats, independents, etc, we’re united as Americans. Being united doesn’t necessarily mean that we all necessarily share the same specific beliefs on every issue.

But if some Protestants say that Roman Catholics are not Christians, then what?

 

[Lek]

So where do the JW’s fit? Are they united in Christ as you and I are? They certainly believe in the verse above. Here is where you will extrapolate further meaning from the verse, attempting to eliminating the JW’s from unity and rightfully so as the Gospel is much more than one verse.

Peace!!!

You’re right. I am qualifying the verse. The JWs say they believe in Jesus, but they don’t because they don’t accept who he really is. If someone says: “I know Lek. He’s that guy who is a staunch democrat”, then he doesn’t know Lek. Of course, we could go on and on and further qualify the verse, but the point is that even the catholic church accepts baptized protestants as part of the church. So there must be a reasonable point at which a person is a follower of Christ short of being fully brought into the catholic church. Maybe we can’t be sure, but God knows the heart. Because we don’t know, we accept people as fellow christians, who look the part, but are not christians in the heart. But I still contend that all “followers of Christ” are part of his church–and they’re not all catholics. That’s not saying that those who know a truth about him and refuse to accept that truth are his followers. I’ll go as far as to say that if I was fully convinced that the doctrines of the catholic church were true and refused to accept them, then I would not be a follower of Christ or vice versa for the catholics.

I guess I rambled a bit here, but sometimes one thought leads to another.

 

[Lek]

But if some Protestants say that Roman Catholics are not Christians, then what?

See the prior post. It applies across the board.

 

[Peter_J]

But if some Protestants say that Roman Catholics are not Christians, then what?

Well, I can’t give a completely across-the-board answer, but generally speaking I ignore it – much as I generally ignore certain things that a small number of Catholics say.

 

[Tomdstone]

See the prior post. It applies across the board.

There is a huge difference between what you are saying and what some other Protestants such as Jack T. Chick say about Roman Catholics.

 

[steido01]

There is a huge difference between what you are saying and what some other Protestants such as Jack T. Chick say about Roman Catholics.

If Jack Chick is the measure for “Protestantism,” then a new label is needed for an arbitrary grouping of Christians, because there won’t be many “Protestants.”

 

[guanophore]

As pointed out, there is not “perfect” unity within the CC.

Yes, there is. The reason that people don’t see this is because there has been contamination of the meaning of “church”. The Church has Christ as her Head, and the Holy Spirit as her soul. Jesus is perfectly unified with His Church, so that those who are in perfect unity with Him are also in perfect unity with the Church.

Unity is lost by sin, including separation from the Truth. Those who are not in perfect unity with Christ and His church become imperfectly joined. This is not a condition of the Church, which is One and indivisible, but of those fallen persons who are joined to her.

There is unity in that all catholics have faith in Jesus Christ.

I don’t think this is true. There are plenty of baptized Catholics who have fallen away from the faith, or who have made a shipwreck of their faith by sin or rebellion. Some do so by outright disobedience. This does not change the perfect unity of the Church, but it does prevent individuals from being part of it.

If every christian complies with the above verse, then there is “perfect unity” within Christ’s church in that we’re all united as his followers.

Clearly this is not the case. Primarily because there are as many interpretations of that “one verse” as there are belly buttons. The Apostles have charged us not to have any “different doctrine”. Allowing one’s siblings to fall into error is not loving.

That’s were the unity comes from, not from whether we all agree that Mary was born without original sin or some other doctrine.

Unity comes from adherence to the Truth, so of course it is about whether or not we all have the same doctrine. It is not ONLY about that, but it is essential.

The verse is very simple to comprehend. Even though the US is made up of republicans, democrats, independents, etc, we’re united as Americans. Being united doesn’t necessarily mean that we all necessarily share the same specific beliefs on every issue.

No, just the doctrines of the faith. The faith is ONE. When a person starts pull threads from the seamless garment, the entire garment is compromised. It is not up to us to determine which doctrines are “essential”. We must preserve the faith exactly how it is handed down to us, in it’s entirety.