Christianity and Kundalini

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I agree that anything not Christ Centered should be rejected…

but I don’t really understand the point about priests, etc, I mean they didn’t get possessed through something Catholic.

I agree with you…

this reminds me of something in the Scriptures. I can’t remember what chapter this is in, but there was a woman who could tell the future, or had some similar ability… and then she kept on saying that Christ is the Son of God. He commanded a demon to come out of her, and then she no longer had this ability to tell the future. This shows that there are many powers that people might have that might not originate from God. That is why we must test the spirits. The Holy Spirit certainly does a lot of miraculous things, - for example in Christ’s life, everything that Jesus did was by the Holy Spirit. He can heal people, cast out demons, prophesy, etc. But the miracles that God does are always real and have a true purpose to them. The false “miracles” of the devil are usually based on appearances - for example not real healings, but the appearance of a healing. There are some “powers” that people in Hinduism or other religions have, that we don’t know where they are from, so it’s best to just stay to Christianity and where we know the Holy Spirit is.

God bless

I also agree with JimR-OCDS. Anyhting that is not Christ-centered we need to reject.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Thank you very much for your advise

You’re very welcome. I just realized too that I’m overlooking the obvious, and this may be so obvious that you’re already doing it! That is - PRAY. Pray a simple prayer that whatever leads you closer to Christ you will be able to understand to the level that is necessary. Pray also that anything that might distract or lead you away from Christ, Christ Himself will “delete” from your life or at least help you to be able to deal with properly. Ask the Blessed Mother for help with this because that’s her job, to lead us to her Son.

 

[FCEGM]

What is demonic?

Well, pretty much everything about Hinduism is demonic, or at least potentially demonic. Hinduism is merely a very sophisticated form of paganism - paganism being a system of belief whereby elements of creation itself (or the “spirits” of these created elements) are proclaimed to be “divine” and worshipped as if they are “gods.” This is what Hinduism does, and in regard to paganism we are taught by the Apostles themselves in Scripture that the so-called “gods” of paganism are actually demons. E.G., in 1 Cor. 10:20-21, St. Paul says:

“… the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and also the cup of demons; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.”

We are Christians it is very difficult to understand something in another language and culture.

It’s not difficult if one takes the time to become educated on such things, especially as there is the need to discern what is or isn’t acceptable for us to believe and practice as Christians. It’s presumptuous and dangerous to dive headlong into something thinking we can sort the differences out afterwards or to assume that because something is “spiritual” it is therefore, at the worst, benign.

The Hindu religion has been around much longer than our own.

Has it? This is a secular-liberal perspective which denies what we are told in Divine revelation that, in the Beginning, man did know the God of Israel. It was only through isolation from Him (through the sin of our first parents and their immediate descendants) that man embraced the error or paganism, i.e., worshipping created elements or created spirits (i.e., angelic beings or demons) as if they are Divine.

To attempt to grasp it on our terms would take years of study.

Welcome to real Catholic scholarship. The Church has done its homework on this subject and offers you correct instruction on it.

All I have tried to suggest here is the similarity between this Hindu word and the Christian holy spirit.

But there is no such similarity. We know of the Holy Spirit and His Divinity through Divine revelation (and please note that Holy Spirit is capitalized). He is not known in Hinduism.

Obviously they are not manifested the same between two different cultures and religions.

“They”? The Holy Spirit is not known to Hinduism at all. Hinduism, as I touched on above, makes no distinction between Divinity and the created universe. As with all forms of paganism, Hinduism worships the universe itself. We Christians, otoh, do not believe that the Holy Spirit is part of the created universe, but that He is God and thus a Being Who is distinct from the created universe and Who transcends and is over and above the created universe, and Who is actually its Creator and Author. There is no place for this concept in Hinduism, which is what makes Christianity different from it.

But as all of creation is of God I do not think that it is impossible for the holy spirit to exist for non christians and obviously they would not use the same name.

Apples and oranges. While the Holy Spirit (as God and Author of Creation) obviously touches the lives of all human beings, at least in His creating them and keeping them in existence, it is quite another thing to claim that Hinduism itself (as a belief system) has a concept of the Holy Spirit or that it believes what we believe about the Holy Spirit. You seem misled because you do not grasp What or Who the Holy Spirit is or why we Christians believe in a Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit, as it says in Romans 8:15, is the Spirit of Sonship which exists eternally between God the Father Who eternally begets God the Son and God the Son Who is eternally begotten of God the Father. In Christ, we participate in this Divine Sonship and thus receive the Holy Spirit. Yet, without this concept of Divine Sonship there is no reason to believe in a Personal or Divine Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Hindus do not believe in Him.

The bible refereances many times the preparation of the bride(soul) to unite in the bridal chamber with her husband(holy spirit).

The “Bride” in Scripture is not the soul, but the Church itself (see Eph. 5:25-32), and also each individual member of the Church, which is the Bride of Christ because it is the Body of Christ - one-Flesh with Christ the Bridegroom. IOW, the Church in this world is a mysterious extension of Christ’s own human Incarnation: His hands, and voice, etc. So, the Bridegroom-Bride motif is a “Flesh and Blood” dynamic, a reference to the “one-Flesh” Covenant between the Incarnate Jesus Christ and His Church (and each individual member of His Church).

continued. . .

 

[FCEGM]

Before there is a process of purification of the soul. Kundalini is this process in the Hindu religion. This term is not nessacery in christianity.

It’s not? We Catholics call it “Purgatory” Further, Kundalini is not the purification of the soul through its union with God, but the experience of an enlightenment aimed at channeling the energy of the universe and through this entering into oblivion wherein the personality doesn’t exist. Not very Christian, that.

But this forum is about kundalini and I have no problem with learning and appreciating other religions. I practiced unconditional love without falter and all of a sudden something changed. It was a very huge physical and mental cleansing. You loose everyting that seperates you from god.

Which “god” would this be? Seeing this experience as corresponding to Kudalini is your error, and a dangerous one to make since you presume that the “god” experienced is necessarily the God of Christians. You may indeed have experienced a deep conversion and experienced physical sensations because of God’s movement in your soul, but, as the great mystical Doctors of the Church teach, such experiences in themselves are not God, but are rather one’s physical being responding to the spiritual (and unfelt) touch of God drawing you to a deeper awareness of His transforming Presence. Further, and as the Doctors would teach you, there is still much work to be done, because that first experience is only the onset of what should be an ever greater desire to be united to the Crucified Christ; there is still much that separates the soul thus touched by God from complete union with Him.

You also gain a deep repect for all of creation.

While this may be so, in failing to distinguish Kundalini from an authentic Christian experience, one is in danger of seeing God Himself as One with Creation and not distinct from it. One then would be worshipping creation - of which one is a part - and not the Creator.

Trivial things in life loose there meaning and you truly trust in god at all times.

The question is: which “god”? If yours wasn’t an experience of an encounter with the Living God, but one arising from yourself, then be careful of claiming the source as Divine. If it wasn’t such, then do not place your trust in something false. If it was an authentic encounter with Him, then do not embrace a spirituality wherein the centrality of the Incarnation of the Son of God is set aside. As has already been recommended, a knowledgeable spiritual director would help you discern your experience and guide you to the foot of the Cross.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Great post, FCEGM.

 

[FCEGM]

Great post, FCEGM.

Thank you very much, MtnDweller.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Not to hijack the thread but if anyone could answer this - is seeing vivid colors while praying a kundalini thing? I know someone who has this phenomenon.

 

[Mary_Jessica]

Honestly I am not sure how to answer this so that your friend will not bee seen as non catholic. I have not found a guide for catholics on what to do if you see lights when you pray.
Yes this happened to me before I ever tried to figure out what was going on before I ever knew about kundalini. As you can see if you use this term even as a reference your friend will be seen as a non catholic no matter how strong her faith is. seeing lights when you pray is often described during a kundalini awakening. It is described for christians as well we just do not get a guide book. We get a mystery of faith. When the mystery occurs then we see stories of people who later became saints condemned by their families and even priests. Not always but it is not rare. But who would think of themselves in this way? This only happens to super holy people. Who ever feels they are holy enough. Tell her to look into the Marian Movement of Priests. This really helped me and it is catholic. She is very lucky to have a friend in christ to turn to like yourself. She is truly blesses and in the end I am sure she will find her place in the church and have a very strong catholic faith even if during research she heard of kundalini. God Bless

 

[Mary_Jessica]

Also I would like to say that that I am speaking from my own perspective. I am in no way advocating kundalini as a good thing here. I just know a little about it because of my own journey which lead me very quickly back to the church. I can see lights when I pray and I do see God in everything but I do not pray to any God other than the one formulated here and I ask for the intercession of the Virgin Mary and I long to be one with christ. I am speaking from a personal experience. I am not trying to be an expert on anything. If you wanted to see how well I remembered the chapter and verse in the bible or exactly what page on a book I am referencing I would fail. I am speaking from my heart my heart and it is my deepest wish that no matter how it is received that it will not cause anyone to question their faith or feel further from christ. My only intention was to hopefully make people who have had a similar experience feel that they still belonged in the church even if they at one point or another faltered and found useful information in another faith. Every thing we need to know is provided us in the Church sometimes it was harder for me to grasp because of my circumstances and I learned of other similar things but inevitably found answers through christ. We all have doubts we all have challenges and we all belong with christ. And we should always welcome others who long for him as I do and looking back always have.

 

[Mary_Jessica]

Thank you very much for your lesson on Christianity and Hinduism. I will rethink my reasons before I pray for a dying rabbit or realize how lucky we are to have grass. I will ask the snake in my spine to kindly exist as well. And the next time I go to the doctor I will make sure there is no caduceus symbol because if I take the medicine I may become possessed by the pagan god Mercury. I never said that Hinduism was valid here I was just creating awareness on a subject so people would not be afraid to discuss symptoms of a spiritual awakening with other Catholics and possibly revert to another faith for answers. I do believe in one God one God that made the universe. I believe that because we are all made by that God we all deserve to be treated with respect even snakes. I also believe we are privileged to have been shown how to return to God through Christ his son.
A Hindu child is raised by Hindu parents and I do not think if you told this child his parents were worshiping demons that they would be likely to turn to Christ you would scare them. And honestly even as a Catholic I have found the readiness on this forum to be so oriented on proving your knowledge on a subject or saying anything other than what you know to be true must be demons rather than seeing the person speaking sad. I think the worst deamons are created through our own ignorance and hatred. Mass murders have occurred to defend a God. Were those catholics possessed? Or is it just the ones that say things you might not get or use a word that sounds “pagan”. The only thing I am saying here is just be nice. You may find the people you are trying to argue with agreed with you all along.

 

[Mary_Jessica]

I do not think there is much else useful to be spoken of in this thread. Go out and love each other create peace and realize we all have so much to learn. I do not think that we will make a better world through memorization or arguing. Allow all pride you have to die and surrender to God. The only good thing that can come from faith is how you live it. Realize you are nothing without God. If we were all a little more humble it would go a long way. We all need to change our perspective sometimes. We are just humans and we do not have control God does. We just need to see him. Tonight I heard a teenager say something very beautiful in a Church group." I do not always see God but he is always with me sometimes I forget to look but he is never where I expect because I realized that what I expect is usually wrong so I try to let him do the talking".

 

[AlanFromWichita]

So would attempting to open the so called “third eye” use kundal*(“Redirecting...”)ni energy?

I don’t remember the exact termijology, so don’t quote me …

I have heard various religious leaders talk about an extra sense. For example, I think “third eye” in some religions refers to the “enlightenment” of a person. In Christianity I’ve heard this called “divine union,” or “opening the eyes of faith,” or “born of the spirit.” These are roughly the same sorts of phenomena these different religions are trying to explain, although there are important difference which I’ll leave to the scholars to figure out. For my purposes in this post, the fact of their distinctions doesn’t come into consideration.

Albert Einstein said that how ever many dimensions a problem is in, it takes an understanding of at least one more dimension, to be able to clearly see the problem. It’s kind of like you really can’t understand directions around town unless you have a map or are in a helicopter, or at least cna imagine being in one – to understand how “left” and “right” correspond to “north,” “east,” or whatever.

The book Flatland is really cool. It’s a short book, and it does a great job of explaining how difficult it is for a person to try to explain something to another person, when the second person simply doesn’t have the mental faculties to comprehend. To me, explaining mathematics to somebody who hates or is afraid of math, is about like trying to herd cats.

So it is with some of these relidions that end up with so many people behaving in a superstitious fashion that they honestly wouldn’t know Truth if it slapped them in the face. This is a very dangerous situation, as people end up not perceiving reality as it truly is.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

A real practitioner of kundalini yoga will freely tell you that 1) it is extremely dangerous if you or your teacher does not know what they are doing, and 2) it requires serious commitment.

Yoga - of which kundalini is one branch - is not an exercise program. It is a type of highly specific spiritual practice that developed within the Hindu tradition. Now it has been adapted in various ways by New Age practitioners. Either way, it cannot - especially in forms such as kundalini - be separated from specific religious beliefs which are contrary to Catholicism. I believe it would be a violation of the first commandment for a Catholic to practice it.

I think the problem is that people simply don’t know what leaders are leading them astray, and which are leading them to God. This may apply to all leaders of anti-Catholic, or non-Catholic if you prefer, but unfortunately the Church isn’t completely free of deception yet, either, except for the fact that Jesus has said that hell will not win.

Alan

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Either way, it cannot - especially in forms such as kundalini - be separated from specific religious beliefs which are contrary to Catholicism. I believe it would be a violation of the first commandment for a Catholic to practice it.

I would very much contest that. Anybody can do yoga without the Hindu. You just take pics of some postures and start twisting your body like a pretzel.

Okay, rather reductionist I’m sure but I fail to see anything spiritual about following any physical, step-by-step form of body manipulation. I have yet to see anyone explain to me why people can’t separate yoga from Hinduism in the same manner that many secular martial arts practitioners have already separated moves/stances from Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Shintoism etc.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Also, I might add it’s good to keep in mind that there are spiritual experiences we really can’t tell most, if any others about. We have to keep some things in our hearts. I believe these things will come out in how we relate to our brothers and sisters, without our needing them to understand what we’ve experienced.

WOW! You have no idea how this speaks to me.

:extrahappy:

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

but I don’t really understand the point about priests, etc, I mean they didn’t get possessed through something Catholic.

I’m sorry I haven’t read the whole thread, but I would like to offer my :twocents: .

There are two ways you can be without sin, as I see it. One is if you don’t know what you’re doing, like before Adam and Eve ate the apple, but there’s a problem.

Now that we ate the apple we know what’s right or wrong – so what do our egos automatically do? Some are drawn to shiny objects, some to drama. Problem is, we cannot remove the temptation once it’s there – like you can’t just “uneat” an apple.

So the only thing we can do is to trust someone who’s been there, and walked right through the greatest evil in the world without any doubts or fears, and made it out better than He went in. This is the friend we want with us when we’re in temptation or danger, or for that matter when we find a hidden treasure together, we can both be rich.



Alan

 

[3DOCTORS]

Also I would like to say that that I am speaking from my own perspective. I am in no way advocating kundalini as a good thing here. I just know a little about it because of my own journey which lead me very quickly back to the church. I can see lights when I pray and I do see God in everything but I do not pray to any God other than the one formulated here and I ask for the intercession of the Virgin Mary and I long to be one with christ. I am speaking from a personal experience. I am not trying to be an expert on anything. If you wanted to see how well I remembered the chapter and verse in the bible or exactly what page on a book I am referencing I would fail. I am speaking from my heart my heart and it is my deepest wish that no matter how it is received that it will not cause anyone to question their faith or feel further from christ. My only intention was to hopefully make people who have had a similar experience feel that they still belonged in the church even if they at one point or another faltered and found useful information in another faith. Every thing we need to know is provided us in the Church sometimes it was harder for me to grasp because of my circumstances and I learned of other similar things but inevitably found answers through christ. We all have doubts we all have challenges and we all belong with christ. And we should always welcome others who long for him as I do and looking back always have.

Thanks for this explanation. You see, my friend was away from her Catholic faith for some years and dabbled in some New Age stuff. The seeing colors during prayer has kind of overlapped but she is convinced it’s from the Holy Spirit now. It’s out of my depth and alien to my experience - and I confess I’ve sometimes questioned it vigorously in conversation with her. I kind of backed off of that and just take an approach now of, “Well, I can’t really comment as I’ve not experienced that myself.”

This person’s charity toward others I think was the saving grace that protected her in those years of drifting and ultimately led her to return to the Church. And from what I gather, this lights business doesn’t happen but once in awhile - she prays intensely, though, and seeks closeness to God, prays intercessory prayers on behalf of people she knows and for the world situations that concern us all. Her heart seems to be in the right place.

But at first right after her reversion I was worried she would get distracted by the attention-grabbing phenomena (and there were other issues, like not being sure which parish to join), and I feared she would want to leave the Church again at times. Things seem more settled now, so maybe God has truly given her some sort of charism that I just don’t understand everything about. And I don’t need to understand, as long as my friend is in no spiritual danger.

Mary Jessica, I get a sense that you are sincere and trying very hard and I hope that you won’t feel like you are being made to feel guilty. There’s nothing wrong with seeking answers and it sounds to me like you’re checking things out, wanting to bounce them off others. We need to take time and prayerfully discern things, test the spirits, and so on. It’d be one thing if you were saying “I am casting spells and worshipping trees and I don’t care if y’all have a problem with that.” That is not what I hear you saying at all.

I made a Lenten pledge to only post on threads that would help me or others spiritually and not get into debates, so I must tread a fine line here - so I’ll stop there, though you’re always welcome to PM me. Have a good day!

 

[Mary_Jessica]

I’m sorry I haven’t read the whole thread, but I would like to offer my :twocents: .

There are two ways you can be without sin, as I see it. One is if you don’t know what you’re doing, like before Adam and Eve ate the apple, but there’s a problem.

Now that we ate the apple we know what’s right or wrong – so what do our egos automatically do? Some are drawn to shiny objects, some to drama. Problem is, we cannot remove the temptation once it’s there – like you can’t just “uneat” an apple.

So the only thing we can do is to trust someone who’s been there, and walked right through the greatest evil in the world without any doubts or fears, and made it out better than He went in. This is the friend we want with us when we’re in temptation or danger, or for that matter when we find a hidden treasure together, we can both be rich.


Very nicely put. Sometimes I think God gives us challenges and puts us through “hell” in order to “uneat the apple” as you so eloquently said(I really liked that). Sometimes we have to suffer in order to see were we went wrong. If you let Jesus lead you through eventually you will see the light. As humans sometimes I think we are too blinded by ourselves to see the truth. Sometimes if we surrender we open a door to let Christ and Our Blessed Mother come in and lift away some of the veil. I have never heard that following the Lord would be easy. I think it could be a little less painful if we just let go of our silly selves and not resist.
God Bless, Mary
Alan

 

[benedictus2]

I think that perhaps we should rethink our approach to this subject. I am a Catholic and I have never done anything that would be considered occult practice and yet I have undergone what would be called a “kundalini awakening” in the Eastern world. I do suggest that the subject should be approached with caution.

If it has to be approached with caution then it can’t be good can it?

True spiritual phenomena is so rare in western society that we forget it is possible.

How do you determine what is a true spiritual awakening? And how do you know that the sprituals awakening is not from the evil spirit but from the good spirit?

I am afraid many christians who have experianced similar phenomena hide in fear of ridicule. With few references to turn to and after being treated like I was possessed by the devil I did find useful information on the topic from buddhist and responsible yogic teachings.

Again, how do you know that this spritual phenomena is from the good spirit?

We forget that similar phenomena is referred to in the bible and catholic teachings. The virtues, gifts, and charisims of the holy spirit. These things are actually possible.

Was there ever any doubt that the virtues and gifts of the holy spirit are possible? Whoever told you that?

The question is what you experienced, can that be truly from the Holy Spirit since the only ones you consulted were Yogis and Buddhists. They don’t even believe in the Holy Spirit let alone the Triune God.

As a Christian I had little information on how do deal with the manifestation of these things.

You should be careful with regards such manifestations. St Teresa of Avila always advised that if nun’s should claim to be having visions they should be sent to scrub the floors.

I think we should be more compassionate toward others and put aside judgment. Unless someone has experianced this there is no way to truly understand.

In which case those who should be consulted should be properly designated exorcists who can determine what sort of spirit is in charge.

The only thing I have found unable to truly identify in christianity is chakra points.

Because there is no such thing as chakra points. All these Hindu terminologies are incompatible with Christianity.

But perhaps we should look a little closer.

There is no need. We have the one true God coming to us and feeding with His very own self. There is no need for any other.

How many times do we hear about the heart or “seeing with the eye of faith”.

That is not the same as chakras or the the “eye”. The eyes of faith pertain to an enlightenment by the Holy Spirit, by the Third Person of the Trinity.

I have active chakras, but not by my own attempts.

Yeah right

When trying to figure out the sensations I was feeling the list of chakras perfectly fit. And I love and have more faith and humility than I ever imagined.

Don’t you think that to say that one is humble shows that one is proud?

To claim humility and not follow the Church is actually an act of rebellious pride cloaked in the fuzzy wuzzy feel good spill of new age.

This supposed force should not be confused with pshychic power or eroticisim. It is feeling gods prescense on a deeper undeniable level.

Which god? The devil manifests Himself as an angel of light.

God created us all. Different cultures express it with different words and symbols at times. That does not mean they do not have the capacity to experiance his love.

And there is only One Christ and He has already come.

If every religion is the same, then considering the Hinduism has been around longer than Judaism or Christianity, then tell me, why Did Christ have to come? If it is just as good, then all the incarnation and dying on the cross is pure nonsense don’t you think?

There is only one way to the Father and that way is Christ.

You should read this document.

Jesus Christ - Bearer of the Water of Life
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

 

[benedictus2]

Did you even finish reading my reply? I am not advocating changing church doctrines at all. I was merely trying to create awareness on the subject. Kundalini is just a word. Chakras are just areas in your body where you feel emotion. Have you ever felt love in your heart literally? Have you ever felt embraced by the spirit?

Which spirit?

These things are very catholic.

I don’t think so. I don’t think you will find anything about chakras and awakening the kundalini serpent in any Catholic teaching.

You should hear about Claire Myrkle McGrath’s experience.

There is no writing that states feeling the prescense of God is bad.

You are assuming that it is God.

The holy spirit as we all know transforms us, works through us, is a real prescense.

You are assuming that what is at work in Kundalini is the Holy Spirit. It is not.

What saint has not reported spiritual bliss, trials, overwhelming love and compassion. How does this happen? From pure devotion, humility, and love.

The saints have done this from being centred on Christ.
They were not chasing after spiritual bliss they were after Christ.

Do you not think they had a deeper connection with God?

The saints yes. But not because of Kundalini awakening.

Gods " beyondness" was a bit less beyond to them.

That was purely a gift from God which they did not strive achieve. What they strove to achieve was a closer following of Christ.

If today you were praying and all of a sudden felt the bliss and unconditional love of God in your entire being and felt the holy spirit moving through you it would be wonderful.

If it is indeed the Holy Spirit yes.

But it is also life altering. I no if few saints that did not experiance this or a dark night of the soul. The charisims of the holy spirit are a catholic teaching.

Yes, but you have to make sure that it is indeed the Holy Spirit.

But who do you know who truly has them?

How do you determine who truly has them and who is a fake. How do you know that those who claim to be gifted by the Holy Spirit might actually be under the influence of the devil.

The devil is very subtle and masquerades as an angel of light.

Who would guide them today in a society that shuns the notion of truly manifesting the promises given by Christ?

Huh, who shuns that notion? But discernment is very important. And when discerning it is not the Hindus or Yogic than kind guide you but rather holy priests.