meltzerboy
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By all means, PM me!
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Interesting thoughts, I agree, I also believe as you mention with your ex-girlfriend there a certain amount of spiritual pride existed, we all need to be carefull of this in regards to spiritual knowledge. Not uncommon and I see this often. Of course people won’t hear that when you tell them, so you must work around it. Which can be difficult. When people can talk on a spiritual level an the dialogue is productive, the its a fire building between people. When one brings spiritual pride to the dialogue its no different that pouring water on the fire. We are humans we all make mistakes, the biggest mistake is to overlook a mistake and continue to make it.
Moving on, the history of Israel is facinating and to me the idea of anyone trying to convert followers of Judaism is simply diabolical. Your talking about Gods chosen people, the land has been destroyed and rebuilt not once but 5-times, and the Lord bought those people back from every corner of the world. IMHO its safe to say mankind should leave those people be until God himself reveals a new truth, which we obviously don’t have yet.
I find it facinating one should go to the Jews and preach Jesus words. Who do you think you are? You do realize they didn’t listen to Jesus himself. Who are you? Jesus is not a mystery to these people. You again escalate to spiritual pride on this path. The right path is to learn to respect, trust and love one another. And admitt we don’t have all the answers and fall miserably short trying to read the mind of God and His will. Jesus didn’t have the time is a short human life which ended in His early 30’s and He was sent from God to complete a specific task when the word became flesh, and He did that. You simply will have to wait on the return of the Messiah for the verdict to be told on the Kingdom of God. Nobody here has that knowledge.
I’m convinced that all christians need to support the Jewish Faith and Israel. We already have demonic forces trying to wipe that land off the map. That will bring mass destruction and death to the world. Thats all that will accomplish. And thats not to say the God of Abraham isn’t lived as the true God in many muslims minds. But there has been a idea steeped in hate, violence, power and wrath imprinted on the minds of many Islamic sects in regards to Israel and Christians and the world. Its a lie and it won’t stand. When the God of Abrahams people comes dressed in hatred and violence, then they chose to abandon the truth and imbrace false idols of power. When one could find any reason to attack the Holy Land God chose himself, I see a major problem. The creature now thinking as he would know the creators thoughts.
Mans thinking is so shallow in regards to the spiritual world and God we can’t even begin to comprehend what an Omnipotent God is capible of. Ideas that armed forces, strength in numbers, or any other human conceived thinking could defeat Gods will, is all folly. Seperate religions and their idealism of how the perfect world should be has no bearing on the Holy Land. One ought admit its Gods chosen land and leave it be.
Its a path of Babylon, you would be weighed in the balance and found wanting, and you won’t even see it coming.
There won’t be anymore destruction and scattering of that land. Its here to stay now. The only destruction coming now is world destruction and Gods wrath. Do you think its by chance the land stands in the middle of Chaos? Don’t be mislead, mankind is the war of good of evil. And that land represents God through time and all He is capable of.
God Bless, Gary
meltzerboy
New member
Gary, I agree with what you say, except you’re still a trifle hard on Muslims (less than before, I admit) but I understand why. Taking the Christian perspective for a moment, I think the rebuttal to your argument is that Jesus (or was it the apostles, or both?) instructed Christians to preach and spread the Gospel to ALL people, and I suppose that would include the Jews. It’s considered a Holy commandment and responsibility for many Christians to evangelize. (BTW, it is forbidden for Jews to evangelize; in fact, even when another wishes to convert to Judaism, they are supposed to be cautioned by the rabbi three times about the challenges that becoming a Jew poses.) Also, many Jews obviously DID follow Jesus at the time, though many did not. It was a new “movement” and Jews of the period were so close to the Hebrew Bible, it’s no wonder many of them refused to change course. In the modern era, however, as you say, Jesus is no mystery to the Jews, so Christians may feel this is a better time to spread the Word of Jesus to them and show them that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. What some Christians may not realize is that informed Jews are prepared: we have rebuttals to all the so-called proof-texts in Isaiah and elsewhere in the Old Testament, predicting the coming of Jesus, some of which are mistranslations of the Hebrew text, including tense changes and what not. Some Jews (mainly those ignorant of their own religion and history) may, however, be more vulnerable to attempts at converting them.
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trdchubi
Guest
What latest trend? It has been going on for centuries already. Do you know that much of the customs of the Catholic church are based on the Jewish customs? Catholic prayers from Jewish prayers? Look on this wesite: crucifiedrabbi.com/
As for me, the miracle of the Modern State of Israel is significant with my faith. The preservation of the Jewish State signifies that the God who made promises centuries ago exists. Every fulfillment of the promises made makes this God the One True God who knows what He is doing and has all the Divine Integrity to back it up. Yes He will always remember His chosen people. He remembered them during The War of Independence, the Sixth Day war, Yom Kippur War, The First and Second Intifada etc. These things exemplify the awesome power of the God of Israel.
It is written,
If the atrocities of a nation can be forgiven through grace then we serve a Mighty God who is ever faithful to His people. Assuring us that this God knows patience.
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ryanoneil
Guest
I’m convinced that Christians need to support Jews also, but I don’t understand your statement (and I’m not saying it to pick a fight). Jesus didn’t tell the disciples to sit around and wait. He sent them out to recover the “lost sheep” of Israel. Jesus told them to go make disciples of all nations by baptizing them and teaching them to observe all that he commanded.
Would you say “Who do Peter and Paul think they are?” They knew first hand what others thought about Jesus and that He was very much a mystery to them. Was it diabolical spritual pride that had them boldy preaching the Gospel to their kin? They knew very well that there was hardened opposition to the Gospel, which was considered scandalous and rediculous to those who didn’t accept it. But they were convinced that the gospel of Jesus Christ brought salvation.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: for Jew first, and then Greek. For in it is revealed the righteousness of God from faith to faith; as it is written, “The one who is righteous by faith will live.” (Rom 1:16-17)
I urge you to read Romans 9-11 (with an eye on 10) and prayerfully consider it. I agree none of us has all the answers, but I just don’t understand what you are trying to say. Peace!
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GaryTaylor
Guest
The path has been well established since John Paul II and continued with Benedict. I believe the correct thinking is written in the works of John Paul II. Since his lifelong childhood friend was jewish he took a interest in the Holy land. The idea is building relationships based on common bonds and seeking to understand through friendship and love and trust. This is how I see the path. To believe you can disolve one faith into another isn’t even a considered option today nor is it with islam. The Popes don’t even believe this nor believe its the solution. Open dialogue with those capible of it, and this doesn’t mean beating others with Bible verse.
As far what I believe is diabloical is when a lose sect of the protestant faith make an all out effort to convert for some self serving agenda. When in fact many of these denmoninations fall away at the 4th ecumenical council. What they believe is in question.
Approaching others in a fanatical way with your belief is accomplishing what? It would be no different I walking up to you with a Book and saying this is the truth read it and accept it immediately or you will perish.
We simply may not have reached a point in time where this is possible. The idea is to maintain open dialogue with those who are capible, with respect to each other, this is the correct path.
And who is out here preaching on Fire like Peter and Paul today? We have entered into a modern society where life is lived very differently. Does it mean the NT isn’t valid? of course not. But it does mean the approach and how one goes about everything has changed. How would Peter and Paul do today going into Iran and Preaching? Or Saudia Arabia?
Its a very different world today. You also cannot preach a Holy Chistian life while living like pagans in America. Should one want to evangalize something I believe we should start right here in this new sodom and gomorrah. And this is 75% christian? What message does this life here send the rest of the world? Islam calls this Babylon. Maybe its time we get our own act together again then we can worry about the entire world. We are losing civil society which was bought about by Jesus Christ. How are we doing?
God Bless, Gary
As far what I believe is diabloical is when a lose sect of the protestant faith make an all out effort to convert for some self serving agenda. When in fact many of these denmoninations fall away at the 4th ecumenical council. What they believe is in question.
Approaching others in a fanatical way with your belief is accomplishing what? It would be no different I walking up to you with a Book and saying this is the truth read it and accept it immediately or you will perish.
We simply may not have reached a point in time where this is possible. The idea is to maintain open dialogue with those who are capible, with respect to each other, this is the correct path.
And who is out here preaching on Fire like Peter and Paul today? We have entered into a modern society where life is lived very differently. Does it mean the NT isn’t valid? of course not. But it does mean the approach and how one goes about everything has changed. How would Peter and Paul do today going into Iran and Preaching? Or Saudia Arabia?
Its a very different world today. You also cannot preach a Holy Chistian life while living like pagans in America. Should one want to evangalize something I believe we should start right here in this new sodom and gomorrah. And this is 75% christian? What message does this life here send the rest of the world? Islam calls this Babylon. Maybe its time we get our own act together again then we can worry about the entire world. We are losing civil society which was bought about by Jesus Christ. How are we doing?
God Bless, Gary
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nickiswank
Guest
I have actually read quite a bit about this, and there are several websites you can visit in order to better understand where these people are coming from. They believe that since Jesus was a Jew and followed Torah, we should all follow Torah as best we can, but not the Rabbis’ interpretations and laws, just the Torah as it’s written in the first five books of the bible. (There are differing beliefs on what laws to follow between groups, but the main body of them seem to go with this.)
They don’t believe that the law offers salvation, they know that salvation comes from Christ alone, but they believe that following the Torah is pleasing to God and they want to become ‘set apart people’ in this way. They follow biblically based kosher food rules, family purity, the sabbath and feast days, and the other laws they can follow without the Temple or a Jewish government in place.
Some of them also believe that Jesus (or ‘Yeshua’, which is apparently His Hebrew name) fulfilled the first half of the Feasts outlined in the Bible, and will fulfill the rest on His return. It’s actually a really interesting parallel, which others might have explored already outside of the Messianic Jewish movement.
Anyway, I think the main focus for them is to become more holy people for God. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but I think some of them go a little far in the Jewish direction. I’m also not sure it’s a sign of spiritual pride, although it could be, and they tend to become very zealous about their beliefs. You could argue that this is a good thing though, at least they’re committed!
There’s another version of Messianic which is for Orthodox/practicing Jews who become Christians. It’s my understanding that they accept those who continue to follow the Torah in honor of their Jewishness (if that’s even a word
) but believe in Christ as Lord and Savior. I think they also meet in synagogues and follow Jewish forms of worship with added things to honor Jesus.
Some websites you can visit are:
www.bereansonline.org
www.eliyah.com
www.lightofmashiach.org
www.houseofyeshua.org
www.restorationoftorah.org
www.torahresource.com
Once again, I’m not affiliated with these groups, I’m really just posting to help with information gathering.
God bless!
Nicki
They don’t believe that the law offers salvation, they know that salvation comes from Christ alone, but they believe that following the Torah is pleasing to God and they want to become ‘set apart people’ in this way. They follow biblically based kosher food rules, family purity, the sabbath and feast days, and the other laws they can follow without the Temple or a Jewish government in place.
Some of them also believe that Jesus (or ‘Yeshua’, which is apparently His Hebrew name) fulfilled the first half of the Feasts outlined in the Bible, and will fulfill the rest on His return. It’s actually a really interesting parallel, which others might have explored already outside of the Messianic Jewish movement.
Anyway, I think the main focus for them is to become more holy people for God. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but I think some of them go a little far in the Jewish direction. I’m also not sure it’s a sign of spiritual pride, although it could be, and they tend to become very zealous about their beliefs. You could argue that this is a good thing though, at least they’re committed!
There’s another version of Messianic which is for Orthodox/practicing Jews who become Christians. It’s my understanding that they accept those who continue to follow the Torah in honor of their Jewishness (if that’s even a word
) but believe in Christ as Lord and Savior. I think they also meet in synagogues and follow Jewish forms of worship with added things to honor Jesus.Some websites you can visit are:
www.bereansonline.org
www.eliyah.com
www.lightofmashiach.org
www.houseofyeshua.org
www.restorationoftorah.org
www.torahresource.com
Once again, I’m not affiliated with these groups, I’m really just posting to help with information gathering.
God bless!
Nicki
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Nicki, isn’t there even another sect, maybe the JWs {though I may be wrong}, who are convinced the converstion of the Jewish faith to their faith will usher in the Second Coming of the Lord? Its one of the denominations thinking for sure.
But yes this is basically where I’m coming from. Much of it is fringe thinking.
God Bless, Gary
But yes this is basically where I’m coming from. Much of it is fringe thinking.
God Bless, Gary
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Saul_DelTarso
Guest
Nicki,
I didn’t look through all of those sites, only about three, but they are much different than the folks I’ve been dealing with. Ala Lew White.
It’s a different animal, a much different ‘sensibility’ if you can call it that.
fossilizedcustoms.com/
I didn’t look through all of those sites, only about three, but they are much different than the folks I’ve been dealing with. Ala Lew White.
It’s a different animal, a much different ‘sensibility’ if you can call it that.
fossilizedcustoms.com/
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SempirVeritas
Guest
as far as Jews arent supposed to convert folk or missionize, Im gonna disagree or at least remain neutral. bejewish.org/ read the right hand column all the way down
So here we have a case.
1 rabbi quotes x rabbis as saying we SHOULD missionize in 2011.
1 rabbi quotes x rabbis as saying we shouldn’t missionize in 2011
parshanuth.blogspot.com/ what I really enjoy about this guy is he seems to take all the verses in the NT that folk might use when saying things like “Jesus did away wtih the law, or we no longer have to keep kosher, or we dont have to do the feasts we have our own days” and provides a plausible interpretation…
youtube.com/user/ancienthebreworg is slightly different but enjoyable
youtube.com/watch?v=NwyzBRwbWA0
So here we have a case.
1 rabbi quotes x rabbis as saying we SHOULD missionize in 2011.
1 rabbi quotes x rabbis as saying we shouldn’t missionize in 2011
and both rabbis maintain they have the authority from G-d through moses to provide a G-d given interpretation or dogma… The reason i suspect ill never convert to Judaism, is I could only accept the rulings of the last Sanhedrin while Israel was still Israel in the land with the temple, and while id appreciate post Sanhedrin (name removed by moderator)ut, I would ultimately base everything by going back to that original kernel, and not off of understandings of understandings of the kernel.
The fringe group called “messianic Jews” are not entirely fringe. They appear fringe. But the belief in Gods law as the law of the land is not new at all. Puritans did it(witch trials hello!) Catholics did it (heretic hunting) their view is a little more historic probably call it “theonomy”… However in my study of that sect, theres no real “unified teaching authority” for instance while mainstream baptist and Presbyterians disagree, they still have seminaries, lots of in depth study of scripture, so forth.parshanuth.blogspot.com/ what I really enjoy about this guy is he seems to take all the verses in the NT that folk might use when saying things like “Jesus did away wtih the law, or we no longer have to keep kosher, or we dont have to do the feasts we have our own days” and provides a plausible interpretation…
youtube.com/user/ancienthebreworg is slightly different but enjoyable
youtube.com/watch?v=NwyzBRwbWA0
I think between ^ one might better understand the shift from a “God is an american” 21st century view back to a “I follow God like Abraham did” view.
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ryanoneil
Guest
I don’t disagree with you about approach, and thanks for clarifying. I thought you were saying we should not spread the good news, which is the power of God after all.
They would probably be martyred like they were in Rome. Just as many of todays martyrs die living out their faith.
Fundamentally, I don’t think its a very different world today. Scandals have always existed starting with the apostles, just as they have existed outside of Christianity. But I absolutely agree that faithfully living the gospel is the best witness.
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Disinherited
Guest
I’m only interested in Judaism and what the Jews believe in the sense that I study what they believe jus tto know stuff. Without meaning to offend anyone (and this isn’t in the elast offensive) if you know what another religion believes then you can refute that religion even more easily. I believe that the Catholic Church is the only true religion and that Judaism WAS only a figure of the real religion that Jesus was to found. I was even suprised that Jews don’t believe in Satan but believe in a devil for instance.
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Disinherited
Guest
I don’t hold wiht supporting the jewish faith or any other faith. I’m not saying that we kill Jews and destroy their monuments and buildings; far from that. We’re far from the atrocities which racist fanatics of the middle ages and of today commit against other races. What I’m saying is that we MUST preach to the Jews and in no way encourage them to keep on following their religion. Since Christ is the way, Judaism isn’t valid anymore. If we support their religion, we’d be letting them go to hell. And it is a dogma of the faith that outside the Church there is no salvation (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus#Catholic_statements_of_this_teaching.
If we prech to them we are not being proud, we are being charitable. Preaching isn’t the same as killing like what the crusaders did. The crusaders didn’t go to Jerusalem to preach, they went to Jerusalem to stop the Muslim empire.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
In its proper context, we may be talking two differnt things here. let me explain what I do believe is wrong. When you say charitable that makes me me automatically see you in a different light which wouldn’t be pride.
Communicating with others takes TWO to have a conversation. When you insist you are right and its your way or the highway. Then you’ve entered into a one-way dialogue. And should you choose to believe it or not the conversation just ended. People do not change because your tell them to. They change because through honest communication they see a “need” to change.
Speaking publicly is one thing but interpersonal dialogue takes on another level of the personal self. You are now giving of yourself in humility, this is what others respond to. Here they see a real person they can identify with. Not someone standing on streetcorner downtown say “Repent or burn in hell” That guy on the streetcorner has to literally chase people down, they run to get away from him.
The word you chose to use be it teach, preach, evangelize, is symantics. The approach is whats important.
Your selling something which can’t be seen but to a rare few, so only understood, so you have no item which sells itself. Whats sells the “truth” is your personal testimony of the supernatural on a heart felt level which is the Truth. When someone could feel what your feeling through your words, “then” you onto something and realy communicating.
If nothing else you both walk away knowing you encountered a very real dialogue. And if nothing else you planted a seed in someones’s mind which may take time to grow. And if nothing else you came upon a follower of another faith which may be an allie.
Spiritual pride is common when followers first come upon the Truth of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. And then want to run around and talk everyone to death. And people can’t wait to get away from them or change the subject. And while its wonderful that they found truth? The first room in Gods house is called Humility. And to reach humilty you must pray. Prayer is the door to the room. So here to is the state of mind in approaching others. And there is no place where humility doesn’t exist in overcoming the self. So it must go along with your forever, or you take a step backwards?
And really here is what John Paul II is talking about and even on a lesser level of just two human beings who are spiritual entering into honest communication. There you have people building trust and walking away saying Geez thats a pretty all right guy".
Not saying, hey you know that religion you been following since you were conscious at 5? Well its gonna lead you to hell. How far are you going with that conversation. One sentence and the individuals mind is closed and the rest becomes a lesson in ignorance.
To take it step further when you walk into someone else’s country, your a stranger and they know that immediatly. So what will you do to first be accepted? Announce to everyone they are condemned in Gods eyes?
And while you may feel one way or another about the Jewish faith, I’m here to tell you, God bought them back to Israel from the far corners of the Earth. They are not condemned by God. That land has been leveled 5X and they are “back” today. No culture in the history of the world survives that except the Jews in Israel. So its safe to say we don’t have the all the answers in regards to Isreal. There’s an unsolved mystery there. The fact that God chose to take His reality out of an ethnic barrier through Christianity, doesn’t leave His chosen people for dead yet, and History to date proves it. Realizing a truth is supporting them, the fact that Gods will isn’t done on Earth yet is just another mystery. And of course its your responsibilty to be true to your faith. But they are not different people than you, they pray to the same God. They just are not convinced Jesus Christ is God. So yes there is much conversation which need take place. But how shall that happen? By starting out with your opening sentence which is “I don’t hold with supporting the jewish faith or any other faith. I’m not saying that we kill them”
Thats not gonna get you anywhere but shown the door out. Would you listen to that if someone of Judaism or Islam approached you like that? Whats the difference? So its I’m not with your faith, I won’t kill, you but you need to convert? Theres an opening line for ecumenism
But you follow what I’m saying my brother?
And yes to a degree this is what I do see with fringe Protestant dooms day cults doing.
Tact and respect for others is what I’m preaching in humility. And when I fail to uphold my own better thinking, than that makes me wrong and human. I admit it easier said than done. I have hard time with islam in this regard.
God Bless, Gary
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Disinherited
Guest
Gary, I understand what you mean but do you know how much good we did with actually preaching? Alot of people convert when debates take place or when they read books saying refuting Judaism. The important thing is that these books refuting Judaism and glorifying the Church should not glorify the Church as a political or material thing but should 'show why Her faith is the only real faith and all that. As you said, commanding them to join the Church isn’t the option; we must give them reasons why they must join the Church, just as we aren’t supposed to command atheists to join the Church but give them reasons to believe in God and miracles.
More good was done by preaching to the Jews and gentiles and by bringing things down to their level than by any pope who, to be honest and tact, emptily talked with Jewish leaders ‘trying’ to reconcile Catholicism with Judaism. No Pope before 1960 ever even tried telling the Jews to reconcile their religion with the Catholic one.
We believe that the Jews are wrong while they believe we are wrong. Yet, without any offense intended, God and Mary know that they are wrong because not only was our religion founded by Christ who is true God and Man, we have proof why Christ is God and man and are able to defend our religion, while the Jews have what remains of the old religion, plus alot of views which contradict even the Judaism of the old testament. Their religion has no value in God and Mary’s eyes as like the Bible said, God does not favor any race but favors only the true religion.
Another thing Gary: you wouldn’t mind writing shorter responses would you? I mean man, that was one long post and you repeated alot of stuff there. I’m just saying.
More good was done by preaching to the Jews and gentiles and by bringing things down to their level than by any pope who, to be honest and tact, emptily talked with Jewish leaders ‘trying’ to reconcile Catholicism with Judaism. No Pope before 1960 ever even tried telling the Jews to reconcile their religion with the Catholic one.
We believe that the Jews are wrong while they believe we are wrong. Yet, without any offense intended, God and Mary know that they are wrong because not only was our religion founded by Christ who is true God and Man, we have proof why Christ is God and man and are able to defend our religion, while the Jews have what remains of the old religion, plus alot of views which contradict even the Judaism of the old testament. Their religion has no value in God and Mary’s eyes as like the Bible said, God does not favor any race but favors only the true religion.
Another thing Gary: you wouldn’t mind writing shorter responses would you
? I mean man, that was one long post and you repeated alot of stuff there. I’m just saying.meltzerboy
New member
Jews do believe in Satan, but it’s not the Satan of Christianity or Islam. We believe that Satan is a messenger from G-d that is sent to tempt mankind, but actually wishes that we resist the temptation, as does G-d. Satan also has the role of the Angel of Death and is the executioner of G-d’s judgment if our sins cannot be atoned for in Gehenna (Purgatory) and our soul is thus separated from G-d.
meltzerboy
New member
Having learned something about Catholicism on this Forum, I believe the issue regarding whether Jews who do not convert to Catholicism, or Christianity in general, go to Hell is a matter of controversy. I’ve heard more than one side to this topic. Some Protestant denominations are less flexible on the issue.
meltzerboy
New member
I’m not an Orthodox Jew, but a Reform Jew. However, I’m quite certain that Judaism does NOT approve of proselytizing. I took a look at the website and seriously doubt its legitimacy (it says it is endorsed by Orthodox Judaism). Perhaps it has good intentions but it is disobeying one of the tenets of the faith. Sometimes in New York City, Orthodox Jews (usually the Chasidic variety) come up to me to talk about Judaism, but they always ask first if I’m Jewish: this is a requirement. If, however, an audience comes of their own free will to hear a rabbi who is the speaker discuss Judaism and why one should consider converting, that is permissible. But advertising on the Internet as a campaign to lure converts sounds indefensible. But I will ask on the Jewish Forum. Messianic Judaism, in whatever form, is most assuredly a fringe group; most Jews don’t even consider it a part of Judaism at all.
meltzerboy
New member
Jewish scholars have plenty of counterarguments regarding the purported Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament. Some of those arguments are based on mistranslations and tense changes in the Hebrew text. One of the basic disagreements concerns whether the Messiah was ever supposed to be G-d in the first place.Gary, I understand what you mean but do you know how much good we did with actually preaching? Alot of people convert when debates take place or when they read books saying refuting Judaism. The important thing is that these books refuting Judaism and glorifying the Church should not glorify the Church as a political or material thing but should 'show why Her faith is the only real faith and all that. As you said, commanding them to join the Church isn’t the option; we must give them reasons why they must join the Church, just as we aren’t supposed to command atheists to join the Church but give them reasons to believe in God and miracles.
More good was done by preaching to the Jews and gentiles and by bringing things down to their level than by any pope who, to be honest and tact, emptily talked with Jewish leaders ‘trying’ to reconcile Catholicism with Judaism. No Pope before 1960 ever even tried telling the Jews to reconcile their religion with the Catholic one.
We believe that the Jews are wrong while they believe we are wrong. Yet, without any offense intended, God and Mary know that they are wrong because not only was our religion founded by Christ who is true God and Man, we have proof why Christ is God and man and are able to defend our religion, while the Jews have what remains of the old religion, plus alot of views which contradict even the Judaism of the old testament. Their religion has no value in God and Mary’s eyes as like the Bible said, God does not favor any race but favors only the true religion.
Another thing Gary: you wouldn’t mind writing shorter responses would you
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SempirVeritas
Guest
right, didnt mean for the MJ link to get caught up with “being a legit form of Judaism” but, I think of MJ as sort of the gateway through which you have normal Christians starting to explore Hebrew roots, etc… is they start trying to think… okay- if im a first century Jew, who has lived my entire life as a Jew. how would i understand “____”
but after looking into the haredi a little, the chassid, modern orthodox, Yemenite jews etc. It seems there is great commonality, but huge differences at times… in my mind I tend to look for what they all have in common, and box the differences up as “to each his own” so for instance- in the sharing judiasm with all… If we set aside the dogma of the NT, and go with just history, it suggests that the pharisees did “mission work”.The biggest problem I have in general with organized religion is (time to play with graphs)
I subscribe to “A religion” I hold to tenants
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
someone else claims to subscribe to “A religion” and holds to
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
that some both of ^ have a tendency to denounce the other as "not really part of “A Religion” because they have 1 tenant to little, or 1 tenant to many.
im gonna PM you with an ot question you might know the answer too
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