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juliamajor
Guest
Well is Missler a nasty little bigot and liar.! Tens of millions!Please! He is certainly no historian or mathematician. After the Black Death how many people were left in Europe? Do they actually think killing tens of millions after the Black death or the other plagues and the shortness of lifespan in general(if you hit thirty you were lucky)wouldn’t have made Europe a empty hole? Jeez .Use your brains!Just another good ole boy making money on hatred.
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Trishark
Guest
It is clear the Old Testament didn’t operate off of Sola Scriptura. The word of God was passed on orally long before anything was written and than when it was wrote down it was preached and taught by men in authoritative positions. Many examples of this but here is a good one from our Lord and Saviour:
Mt: 23 Then said Jesus to the crowds and disciples. "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses seat so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but do not what they do; for they preach but do not practice…
Where in the Old Testament does it speak about this authoritative Moses seat? It doesn’t but we know it to be true because Jesus himself shows us it existed. This is authoritative tradition operating in the old testament. A foreshadowing of what was to come not as complete or as great as the New Testament Church Christ would build that would eventually include the New Testament Cannon (put together by the Church at the councils of Hippo and Carthage in 393 and 396 AD).
The scriptures properly interpreted are the authoritative word of God! The Bible Alone is an unscriptural teaching in itself. Reducing Gods word to only scripture is subtracting from his word.
Thanks for the discussion great stuff!!
Peace be with you…
Mt: 23 Then said Jesus to the crowds and disciples. "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses seat so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but do not what they do; for they preach but do not practice…
Where in the Old Testament does it speak about this authoritative Moses seat? It doesn’t but we know it to be true because Jesus himself shows us it existed. This is authoritative tradition operating in the old testament. A foreshadowing of what was to come not as complete or as great as the New Testament Church Christ would build that would eventually include the New Testament Cannon (put together by the Church at the councils of Hippo and Carthage in 393 and 396 AD).
The scriptures properly interpreted are the authoritative word of God! The Bible Alone is an unscriptural teaching in itself. Reducing Gods word to only scripture is subtracting from his word.
Thanks for the discussion great stuff!!
Peace be with you…
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DFWChristian
Guest
Well that’s simply because Chuck Missler uses a non-demoniminal point of view and looks at scripture honestly and like so many others has determined that the Catholic faith can be one that leads to spiritual death and no salvation. Can Catholics be saved? Of course! But the fact is your Church teaches so much blasphemy that it hurts people’s walk, and does not emphasize a personal realtionship with the Lord. The idea of purgatory, sacraments, justifiction through works are not biblical. The idea that Mary is a virgin is contrary to scripture. Mary had children and it’s right out of Matthew 13 I believe, and the term relative was available for Matthew to use, but he used the term brother. The idea that Peter is infalliable is a joke as he is consisently being rebuked by both Jesus and Paul after your infamous “Rock” comment. Here’s a good link for y’all to study.
gospellightbiblebaptist.com/insidepg/62errors.html
There is only one way to salvation and that is believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he died on the cross, was buried and was raised three days later. If you believe that, you are saved and will inherit the kingdom. If you believe that you must do other things, then you are calling God a liar and then you are setting yourself up for a major disaster.
Have a blessed day
gospellightbiblebaptist.com/insidepg/62errors.html
There is only one way to salvation and that is believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he died on the cross, was buried and was raised three days later. If you believe that, you are saved and will inherit the kingdom. If you believe that you must do other things, then you are calling God a liar and then you are setting yourself up for a major disaster.
Have a blessed day
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Prove this statement.
This is merely personal opinion.
Of course they are.
There is no scripture which proves that Mary had other children.
You have obviously confused infallibility with impeccability.
There is nothing unreasonable about the gospel’s demand for a commitment to Christ also requiring a corresponding commitment to the Catholic Church which He founded beginning with Peter, the rock.
As a convert to the Catholic Church, I always do.
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joe370
Guest
Unless Chuck Missler’s church was founded by God in the 1st century, on Pentecost, in Jerusalem, forever guided by the spirit of truth into all truth, I really don’t think there is any reason to put much stock in what he says about the CC, unless of course the CC is not the church founded by God, which is not the case, or at least no protestant will endeavor to give me the name of the man (other than Jesus Christ) - that reputedly founded the CC and when.
You ever wonder why most protestants attack the CC as opposed to the EOC or other protestant churches?
You ever wonder why most protestants attack the CC as opposed to the EOC or other protestant churches?
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DFWChristian
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NewsTheMan
Guest
It amazes me that anybody can hold this view and seriously believe it. Unbelievable. But sad
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DFWChristian
Guest
Wait! You are Catholic and you don’t believe that Jesus died on the cross, was buried and raised 3 days later?? Wow, the lack of faith in the Catholic Church was scarier than I thought! Let me tell you something, it happened!!! C’mon baby. What is your opinion on it? You brothers need to help this guy out.
If you accept in your heart that he is the Son of God and that he died on the cross and was raised three days later, you will be saved. End of story, end of discussion. No works are needed, no sacarments- only a belief that Jesus was who he said he was. Works are great and it proves you are saved, but faith and faith alone in Christ is what gets us saved. It’s too bad the Catholic Church doesn’t get that message.It amazes me that anybody can hold this view and seriously believe it. Unbelievable. But sad
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duffyk4
Guest
DFWChristian obviously is not here to learn and honestly discuss the Catholic faith. It’d bebest if everyone ignored him
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NewsTheMan
Guest
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DFWChristian
Guest
Well when I hear defaming words about an incredible man of God, I’m curious as to why these things are being said about a brother in Christ. He knows scripture better than anyone here and it’s not a matter of causing conflict, but spreading the gospel.
I will say it again, Jesus Christ is the son of the God, was buried for our sins and rose on the third day. Nobody here should have a problem with that statement, and we should all be rejoicing over Christ. All you need to do to enter into heaven is believe what Paul said, and you will be saved. There is nothing else you can do to draw closer to God. It was all paid for on the cross.
I will say it again, Jesus Christ is the son of the God, was buried for our sins and rose on the third day. Nobody here should have a problem with that statement, and we should all be rejoicing over Christ. All you need to do to enter into heaven is believe what Paul said, and you will be saved. There is nothing else you can do to draw closer to God. It was all paid for on the cross.
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NewsTheMan
Guest
Ohhh… so thats who this “Jesus” guy is. I’ve heard a a little bit about him. sigh.
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Shannon9791
Guest
So the Devil is saved? I’m sure he believes all those things about Jesus, right? I’m pretty sure he knows Jesus is who he says he is. By your logic, they’re both hanging out together in Heaven.
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joe370
Guest
DFW, show me the official teaching of the CC where the CC teaches that Christians are saved by works outside of Jesus?
The Catholic church teaches that Christians are save by the free gift of our savior Jesus alone, however, that faith without works is dead my friend. Not my words; they are the words of your bible:*What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
*
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DFWChristian
Guest
Cmon dude. For all of the Catholic conflicts believes with the Bible, that’s all you can say to defend your faith? No the devil isn’t saved, and let me add not only do you have to believe those three things, but you have to admit Jesus is your Lord and Savior. I hope everyone here gets saved. Just don’t buy into non biblical beliefs like I mentioned above.
Have a blessed day
Have a blessed day
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joe370
Guest
DFW, sounds like the bible is your final authority so, perhaps you can answer a question no one else will field:
In one corner we have some isolated autonomous churches, eg Evangelical churches - that defer to the bible as their final authority for doctrinal clarification and authoritative resolution, and they come away from the bible believing that Jesus was speaking in metaphor regarding the Eucharist. In the opposite corner we have some isolated autonomous churches as well, eg, some Lutheran churches - deferring to their bible as their final authority for doctrinal clarification and authoritative resolution and they too come away from the same bible believing the exact opposite.
How can one know who’s interpretation is correct regarding the preceding impasse, if in fact the bible is to be the Christians final authority for resolving doctrinal differences.
Perhaps you will be the first non-Catholic to answer this question.
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UnityofTrinity
Guest
You fail to give me these explanations:
_ The Book of James said “the devil also believes and shunder”, it is clear that the Devil knows these things, and the Devil also professes in his heart that God has the power, only through Him that salvation comes, the Devil also know that Jesus died on the Cross and was raised 3 days later, why isn’t the Devil saved? Are you suggesting that the Devil is saved?
_St.James also stated that faith without work is a DEAD faith, and that man is not justified by faith alone but by works. Abraham works were active with faith, and he was declared as “friend of God”. Now if we imagine Abraham doesn’t do anything God told him to do, yet still profess in his heart that “God is real” then would Abraham be saved? If Abraham didn’t do anything would Abraham be considered righteous anymore? Then based on your salvation model, Dead faith could actually saves, despite it being…dead.
_ If a Christian only need to acknowledge those things above in order to be saved, then why should a Christian pray for forgiveness when he sins? Do you pray for forgiveness when you sin? Praying, reading the Scripture, or going to church are all actions and activites, they’re still “works” which you perform daily. Why do you pray ffor forgiveness anyway if you could be saved by only believe in “Jesus died on the cross and raised in 3 days”? If you don’t pray, don’t read the Bible, don’t go to church, even how many sins you commit, you don’t need to confess, you don’t need to do anything, just go out drinking and living life because you already “born again” and “accepted Jesus, and believe that He died on the cross and raised up in 3 days”.
(Given that faith only is right, why would St.Paul have to write extensive letters to the churches and tell them to fight off temptations? The only thing St.Paul should just wrote them something like: “Keep on in faith” or maybe send them a recording of “Don’t stop believing”, problem solved.)
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Your response is a mess, so I’ll try to recreate your post and respond to it.
Here is an overview of the Biblical basis of purgatory:
The Doctrine of Purgatory Proved from Scripture
2 Maccabees 12:42-46
Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; or if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.
Even those Christians who deny that Maccabees 1 & 2 belong are inspired and belong in the canon of the Old Testament must admit that this passage reveals that the Jews believed that that the living may pray for the dead and make sacrifices for them in order that they might be freed from the sins they had committed. It was with this cultural understanding as a backdrop that the following New Testament verses come into focus.
Luke 12:42-48
The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. "That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”
Notice that there are not two but three categories of servants in this parable: 1) the “wise and faithful manager” who is rewarded (heaven); 2) the unfaithful servant who knows his master’s will but does not do it and who is “cut to pieces and assigned a place with the unbelievers (hell)l; and 3) the one “who does not know and does things deserving punishment.” This final servant is beaten with “few blows” (purgatory).
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1 Peter 1:7
These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
He did in 1 Peter 1:17.
Here is an overview of the Biblical basis of purgatory:
The Doctrine of Purgatory Proved from Scripture
2 Maccabees 12:42-46
Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; or if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.
Even those Christians who deny that Maccabees 1 & 2 belong are inspired and belong in the canon of the Old Testament must admit that this passage reveals that the Jews believed that that the living may pray for the dead and make sacrifices for them in order that they might be freed from the sins they had committed. It was with this cultural understanding as a backdrop that the following New Testament verses come into focus.
Luke 12:42-48
The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. "That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”
Notice that there are not two but three categories of servants in this parable: 1) the “wise and faithful manager” who is rewarded (heaven); 2) the unfaithful servant who knows his master’s will but does not do it and who is “cut to pieces and assigned a place with the unbelievers (hell)l; and 3) the one “who does not know and does things deserving punishment.” This final servant is beaten with “few blows” (purgatory).
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1 Peter 1:7
These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Let’s take a closer look at these verses, okay? :yup:
Brothers of Jesus, Not Sons of Mary
Many non-Catholics deny the Perpetual Virginity of Mary by referring to passages of scripture that mention the “brothers” of Jesus. A rigorous analysis of scripture, however, proves their position is false. Consider the following:
1. Jesus had a “brother” named James.
"Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?”(Matthew 13:55)
2. James, the Lord’s “brother”, is an apostle.
“Then, after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. (Galatians 1:18-19)
3. There are two apostles named James.
“When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.”(Luke 6:13-16)
4. One James (the brother of John) is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his father is Zebedee.
“James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder)” (Mark 3:17)
5**. The other apostle named James is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his father is Alpheus.**
“And when it was day, he called his disciples, and chose from them twelve, whom he called apostles: Simon, whom he named Peter and Andrew his brother, and James and John and Philip and Bartholomew, and Matthew and James the son of Alpheus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, and Judas the son of James and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.” (Luke 6:13-16)
6. Therefore, neither apostle named James was a uterine brother of Jesus.
7. The man named Joseph (or Joses) is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his mother is Mary and his brother is James. Therefore, this Mary is the wife of Alphaeus.
“Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.” (Matthew 27:55-56)
8. Judas is not a uterine brother of Jesus because he is the son of James.
“When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James.” (Acts 1:13)
- While Matthew 15:35 declares James, Joseph and Judas to be the “brothers” of Jesus, it has been demonstrated from scripture that they are NOT uterine brothers of the Lord. From this, it is apparent that scripture must be using the term “brothers” to mean relatives other than sons of Mary.
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