Church accused of using FBI-style tactics to watch and silence priests

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The problem I am finding is that almost every article calls Fr. Flannery a “well known opponent” or an “outspoken critic” of the Church’s teaching regarding contraception and women “priests”. However, trying to get to his own words is not easy. His articles seem to have been removed from the Irish Catholic site and doing a google search gives dozens of pages about the censure but not links to his own word. If anyone finds first hand material, it would be great if you could link us.
 
The whole of that article reeks of it.
Only leading towards more troubling opinions, though…i think…?
Smoke could be a dangerous fire or the grilling of burgers. More information is better.
`s “ordination” has been mentioned a number of times on this thread.
Vaguely. It wasn’t until recently that someone posted something that gave evidence of an opinion held by Fr. Flannery.
In this case, its the blatant **hypocrisy.** Theyre quite happy to run over and bury their opponents, but any sign of a fightback, and they scream “Unfair!!!”. Theyre happy to dish it out, but they dont have the backbone to endure some of the same.
What`s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Like I said, that’s most people. I’m sure Father Leonard Feeney applauded the silencing and excommunication of liberals but was probably appalled when it applied to him.
 
I don’t know exactly in what context Fr. Flannery called for public debate on those matters. However, as a matter of principle, I’m always open to debate since I think it helps to clarify the Church’s position and expose the errors of dissent. Truth should never be afraid to confront error.
Fr. Flannery is a co-founder of the Association of Catholic Priests whose mission is to bring these issues and others (they were also very unhappy with the new English translation of the Mass) to the public square. They seem to be the Irish version of “We Are Church” or “Call to Action”. But the big problem seems to be that he was allowed to publish unchallenged in the Irish Catholic newspaper/magazine. It wasn’t really debate, just one-sided pushing of an agenda.
 
our lady said only portugal will remain faithful, how many 15 years ago would have said ireland would lose it’s faith, or at least hold fast.
i certainly would not like to bet against it now.it is for us to keep reminding these people that would like to cut ties with rome that we are here and staying
 
our lady said only portugal will remain faithful, how many 15 years ago would have said ireland would lose it’s faith, or at least hold fast.
i certainly would not like to bet against it now.it is for us to keep reminding these people that would like to cut ties with rome that we are here and staying
Exactly!! As long as there is a burning ember, there is always a chance that it will once again turn into a blaze once more! 👍
 
Fr. Kevin Hegarty’s comments in the Irish times
And it gets even worse. What is going on, I really cannot believe this so called ‘liberalism’ within the priesthood? This is going to reinforce arguments from lapsed/cafeteria catholics even more, esp. those who think the vatican is at fault and that the church needs changing. GOBSMACKED and then some.
 
i have rarely heard a sermon on what the church teaches in the last 10 years, any wonder so many are unsure what the truth is.
how many of us have heard well the church does not believe in xyz anymore because father murphy,reilly, whoever said so.
it is left to us to say well actually i know more than the priest you refer to,🤷
i wonder why so many visionaries have been forcasting chastisments for the near future.

Daily Prayer for Priests "

O Almighty, Eternal God, look upon the Face of Your Son and for love of Him, who is the Eternal High Priest, have pity on Your Priests. Remember, O most compassionate God, that they are but weak and frail human beings. Stir up in them the grace of their vocation which is in them by the imposition of the bishop’s hands. Keep them close to You, lest the enemy prevail against them, so that they may never do anything in the slightest degree unworthy of their sublime vocation.

O Jesus, I pray for Your faithful and fervent priests; for your unfaithful and tepid priests; for Your priests laboring at home or abroad in distant mission fields; for Your tempted priests; for the lonely and desolate priests; for Your young priests; for Your dying priests; for the souls of Your priests in purgatory.

But above all, I commend to you N. ] and all the priests dearest to me, the priest who baptized me, the priests who have absolved me from my sins, the priests whose masses I have assisted and who have offered me Your Body and Blood in Holy Communion, the priests who have taught and instructed me or helped and encouraged me, and the priests to whom I am indebted in any other way.

O Jesus, keep them all close to Your Heart, and bless them abundantly in time and in eternity. Amen.

Mary, Queen of Apostles, pray for us and obtain for us many faithful and holy priests.
 
i have rarely heard a sermon on what the church teaches in the last 10 years, any wonder so many are unsure what the truth is.
how many of us have heard well the church does not believe in xyz anymore because father murphy,reilly, whoever said so.
it is left to us to say well actually i know more than the priest you refer to,🤷
i wonder why so many visionaries have been forcasting chastisments for the near future.

Daily Prayer for Priests "

O Almighty, Eternal God, look upon the Face of Your Son and for love of Him, who is the Eternal High Priest, have pity on Your Priests. Remember, O most compassionate God, that they are but weak and frail human beings. Stir up in them the grace of their vocation which is in them by the imposition of the bishop’s hands. Keep them close to You, lest the enemy prevail against them, so that they may never do anything in the slightest degree unworthy of their sublime vocation.

O Jesus, I pray for Your faithful and fervent priests; for your unfaithful and tepid priests; for Your priests laboring at home or abroad in distant mission fields; for Your tempted priests; for the lonely and desolate priests; for Your young priests; for Your dying priests; for the souls of Your priests in purgatory.

But above all, I commend to you N. ] and all the priests dearest to me, the priest who baptized me, the priests who have absolved me from my sins, the priests whose masses I have assisted and who have offered me Your Body and Blood in Holy Communion, the priests who have taught and instructed me or helped and encouraged me, and the priests to whom I am indebted in any other way.

O Jesus, keep them all close to Your Heart, and bless them abundantly in time and in eternity. Amen.

Mary, Queen of Apostles, pray for us and obtain for us many faithful and holy priests.
👍
 
In today’s Indo, it is reported that 800 priests are opposed to the censure of Fr.Flannery, claiming that the Pope’s actions were unfair.

independent.ie/national-news/…ts-3075064.html

Such leading lights such as Fr.Peter McVerry have accused the Holy Father of being “afraid” of the ordination of women and celibacy. Do these people have a clue as to why these rules are in place and the thinking behind them. Someone needs to read the Bible/Catechism a bit more…
 
Smoke could be a dangerous fire or the grilling of burgers. More information is better.
Youre stuck in a groove. As ive said already, the weight of evidence is overwhelming.
Everyone else here can see it.
Vaguely. It wasn’t until recently that someone posted something that gave evidence of an opinion held by Fr. Flannery.
The rest of us noticed it right from the start of this thread. Fr. Flannery has been mentioned on another thread. The language of Dissentspeak is unmistakable, and nothing that you say can disguise it.
Like I said, that’s most people. I’m sure Father Leonard Feeney applauded the silencing and excommunication of liberals but was probably appalled when it applied to him.
Fr. Feeneys heresy is less damaging than this much wider condemning of the Churchs INFALLIBLE F&M teachings.
By supporting womens "ordination", Fr. Flannery and his supporters are making it painfully obvious that they do** NOT **understand the nature of the sacramental priesthood. They have no right to be called priests. You can argue as much as you like but theres no way out of reaching that conclusion!
In today’s Indo, it is reported that 800 priests are opposed to the censure of Fr.Flannery, claiming that the Pope’s actions were unfair.

Do these people have a clue as to why these rules are in place and the thinking behind them.
The Church doesn`t submit to the politically-correct demands of the zeitgeist!
Any priest who calls out for “priestesses” should be sent to a decent seminary, and kept there until he understands the truth. If he still dissents after that, he should be sent packing!
 
Youre stuck in a groove. As ive said already, the weight of evidence is overwhelming.
Everyone else here can see it.

The rest of us noticed it right from the start of this thread. Fr. Flannery has been mentioned on another thread. The language of Dissentspeak is unmistakable, and nothing that you say can disguise it.

Fr. Feeneys heresy is less damaging than this much wider condemning of the Churchs INFALLIBLE F&M teachings.
By supporting womens "ordination", Fr. Flannery and his supporters are making it painfully obvious that they do** NOT **understand the nature of the sacramental priesthood. You can argue as much as you like but theres no way out of reaching that conclusion!

Any priest who calls out for “priestesses” should be sent to a decent seminary, and kept there until he understands the truth. If he still dissents after that, he should be sent packing!
👍
 
Am I wrong in my thinking that the most dangerous enemies of the church come from within. If these priests have genuine concerns why are they not discussing them with their Bishops etc, privately? Surely we are not all naive, we know why they are so public in voicing their concerns. We all, always have a choice, let them use theirs to leave the church and join others who will happily accept their views.
 
Am I wrong in my thinking that the most dangerous enemies of the church come from within.
…let them use theirs to leave the church and join others who will happily accept their views.
Why would they want to leave when they can do more damage from within? The mastermind (:eek:) behind it all likes it just the way it is, thanks very much! :rolleyes:
As the saying goes: “When you`re on a good thing, stick to it.”

While the dissenters are making their (vain) attempt to bring down the Organism, they`re also feeding off Her: a pretty satisfactory arrangement! Later on of course, the consequences of the empty promises of their “patron” might cause grief for some of them. 🤷
 
Youre stuck in a groove. As ive said already, the weight of evidence is overwhelming.
Everyone else here can see it.
Ah, so now truth is a popular vote? :confused: And, yes, I am “stuck in a groove” of asking for the evidence of what someone is being accused of.
The rest of us noticed it right from the start of this thread. Fr. Flannery has been mentioned on another thread. The language of Dissentspeak is unmistakable, and nothing that you say can disguise it.
Dissentspeak? IMHO that’s a dangerous mob mentality kind of language.
Fr. Feeneys heresy is less damaging than this much wider condemning of the Churchs INFALLIBLE F&M teachings.
By supporting women`s “ordination”, Fr. Flannery and his supporters are making it painfully obvious that they do** NOT **understand the nature of the sacramental priesthood.
I wouldn’t say they don’t understand the nature of sacramental priesthood. They just don’t appear to understand the theological concept of in persona christi.
They have no right to be called priests. You can argue as much as you like but there`s no way out of reaching that conclusion!
To say they have no right to be called priests is to not understand the nature of the sacramental priesthood. The priest in question has had his column stopped, he’s still a priest with faculties.
The Church doesn`t submit to the politically-correct demands of the zeitgeist!
Any priest who calls out for “priestesses” should be sent to a decent seminary, and kept there until he understands the truth. If he still dissents after that, he should be sent packing!
The Holy Father is yet to see things that way. Fr. Hans Küng still has his priestly faculties.
 
independent.ie/national-news/church-accused-of-using-fbistyle-tactics-to-watch-and-silence-priests-3073843.html

What is going on - I never realised there were so many priests not in line with the church’s teachings and the vatican?

Quote: "Jesus was a victim of those who wanted to silence him . . . They wanted rid of him."
What is wrong with these priests, this is madness, and no doubt one of the reasons for so many cafeteria catholics.

*Priests are being subjected to FBI-like attention from Catholic “agents” who want to silence anyone brave enough to voice their own opinions from the pulpit, a leading cleric claimed yesterday.

Fr Adrian Egan – the head of the Redemptorist Order in Limerick – criticised the Vatican and publicly backed Fr Tony Flannery, who is being investigated by Rome because of his liberal views.

Fr Flannery, an Athenry-based Redemptorist, who is the founder of the Association of Catholic Priests, has for the past 14 years written his opinions in the Redemptorist Order’s ‘Reality’ magazine.

However, the Holy See has now intervened, and his monthly column has been discontinued.*

*"The reality, too, is that, there are people sitting in churches on a daily basis that are almost listening to hear you express an opinion that might be seen as dissenting and they will report you.

“It’s a little bit back like maybe in the Hoover days in America, where there are kind of agents all around the place that are willing to lift a phone, or write a letter, to a local bishop or the Vatican, and say, ‘so and so did this’, and it may be of the most minor thing, and yet, they can be taken seriously.”

Drawing a parallel with the crucifixion of Jesus, Fr Egan said: "I want to be able to articulate what I feel and what I think about. We are now celebrating Holy Week this week and, in many ways, Jesus was a victim of those who wanted to silence him . . . They wanted rid of him.*

Zechariah Chapter 3

1Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, while Satan stood at his right hand to accuse him.

2And the angel of the LORD said to Satan,
“May the LORD rebuke you, Satan; may the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this man a brand snatched from the fire?”

3Now Joshua was standing before the angel, clad in filthy garments.

4 He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, “Take off his filthy garments, and clothe him in festal garments.”

5 He also said, “Put a clean miter on his head.” And they put a clean miter on his head and clothed him with the garments. Then the angel of the LORD, standing, said, “See, I have taken away your guilt.”

6 The angel of the LORD then gave Joshua this assurance:

7"Thus says the LORD of hosts: If you walk in my ways and heed my charge, you shall judge my house and keep my courts, and I will give you access among these standing here.
  1. “Church accused …” - sometimes this is Satan.
  2. “FBI tactics” - to some these would always be “BAAAAAD!” Why not “KGB tactics?”
    Or would that make the WRONG point?
  3. “Watch and silence priests …” ?? No one should watch? No one should ever silence them if they teach “their own opinions” in place of true doctrine?
Actually where “the other side” is in power - faithful priests, lay teachers, seminary hopefuls etc. are being watched and silenced IMO.

In the above scripture Joshua is “the High Priest” - which would equate with the Pope or Vatican. This rather open break with authority makes Fr. Egan rather suspicious.

What ARE the “liberal opinions” so “courageously” spoken? Heresies? Certainly those things categorized as "heresies’ all began as liberal opinions - although some at first were not in contradiction to church teaching but overreachingly novel (and subsequently wrong) new theology.

“Liberal” need not be wrong. The Church has keys to bind and loose. That which it “looses” might seem to be a “liberal” ruling. These days the words “liberal” and “conservative” can have a loyalty proviso that seems to call one to pick a side.

Jesus is the way the truth and the life. Let’s Conservatively follow all of what He commands and liberally give our hearts to Him and serving our neighbors in love.
 
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