Church Exorcist and Pro Life Priest Warns Against Harry Potter

[Mumbles140]

I didn’t read the entire thread, I simply stated my opinion, and stand by it. I didn’t say anything about you or any other individual, but about me. If others want to personalize my statement, there’s not much I can do about that. I didn’t come into this thread to debate, as I stated originally.

I respect your opinion and understand you don’t want to debate, but I was simply explaining how I felt when I read your initial response, which was discussed between you and Rapunzel. I simply wanted to clarify for you, at least on my behalf, how your opinion could be viewed in that manner.

I watch one show on TV, Biggest Loser, that’s it. Movies, typically no, I pretty much either watch a Christ or Saint related movie, my library consists of Catholic books- currently on my desk I have “The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross” and "“The Collected Works of St. Teresa of Avila vol 2”. I literally would rather focus on Christ or His Saints I guess I feel good in = good out ~shrug~

I’m glad you have such a focus on Christ in your life. I was simply pointing out that by indulging in a fictional book or a movie, one doesn’t lose the focus of Christ in their life, especially if what they are reading is for entertainment value and doesn’t affect the actions of the reader.

People could argue that Lost has ‘magic’ and other elements similar to ‘witch craft’ but people looked past that to see the virtues and morals in the series, which is what us readers of Harry Potter have done. In fact, Lost had a good deal of Catholic support even though it contained murder, drugs, and open sexuality. Watching that series doesn’t make a person susceptible to those sins, and I feel the same way about the Harry Potter series.

Please understand that I’m not trying to attack you or make you change your opinion. In fact, I’m using the discussion we’ve had to express a larger point to the forum, so please don’t think this is solely centered on you.

 

[Barbkw]

I give up, I should have known better than to talk to anyone in forums, even people who claim to follow God. All I was trying to do was explain to people that what is benign for them can be bad for others, and yet all people can do is resort to personal attacks. I really should have known better than to even try.

I also support your testimony.

It’s short sighted of parents to presuppose any child’s ability to remain attached to Jesus. Children don’t have 20/20 hindsight necessary to discern the silent creeping influences of evil intent. Particularly when evil is dressed as good.

 

[Mumbles140]

I also support your testimony.

It’s short sighted of parents to presuppose any child’s ability to remain attached to Jesus. Children don’t have 20/20 hindsight necessary to discern the silent creeping influences of evil intent. Particularly when evil is dressed as good.

Barb, why is it evil? What is the basis for your arguments. Not about witch craft being evil, dabbling in the occult is clearly evil and dangerous, but how is reading a fictional book evil?

Furthermore, if the parents do instil the faith in their children and do not isolate them from it, as the Bishop clearly stated, then it isn’t a problem. When children are not given the chance to embrace and grow in their religion, when they view religion as a chore, that is when they will turn from it. Don’t use Harry Potter as a scapegoat when you have been unable to prove that Harry Potter leads children to the Occult.

Daizies experience is different. There was prior involvement with the occult before Harry Potter, so it can not be blamed for leading back. Also, and Daizie can clarify if needed, but there wasn’t much depth to how it was a stumbling block for her or others. Also, if someone has a history of the occult, it may not be appropriate for them, but that doesn’t condemn the book for everyone else.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I can see how someone who has had a history in the Occult, or at least any sort of lingering curiosity in the past, could use Harry Potter as a path back to their former ways. But that is for someone who already has the inclination towards it, and our debate hasn’t focused on that. It has focused on the fact that reading Harry Potter will not lead someone, specifically a practicing Catholic, to the Occult. We have all admitted that the Occult is real and it is dangerous. But we have all read the books and have determined for ourselves that the ‘witch craft’ (to use the phrasing of others) contained in the books is nothing like actual Wiccan practices, nor does it intend to be.

Furthermore, I would like to remind you that the OP ‘called out’ those Catholics who supported the books as ultimately being too lost and blind to see the issues. We posted our responses, and were informed that every opposing poster (until you) had never read any of the books or seen the movies, and were citing sources from priests and religious who had also never read the books or seen the movies. However, when a Bishop is quoted as saying it isn’t Harry Potter that’s leading youth into the Occult, and that it is actually isolation from the Faith, they didn’t want to discuss his quotes, but still continue with the previous citations.

Our biggest issue is that posters who have no concept of the actual content in the books are throwing jabs without providing support. One poster actually accused the books based on search results for “harry potter wiccan” - literally, just the search results, not even a scholarly article. We all encourage open debate, but we have been bombarded with pot shots that don’t have any support given, and yet we have maintained civility. So please don’t accuse us of ‘vehemently descrying’ those who were on the offensive first and have continually rejected our pleas to provide support.

I’m not trying to force Harry Potter on anyone, but some people have come dangerously close (and others have crossed the line) to insulting good Catholics because they read Harry Potter. We obviously support the right of someone not to read it, but we ask that a person shouldn’t condemn it without any knowledge of the matter. Even their sources don’t have intimate knowledge of the content. I mean to say nothing against a priest, but at the end of the day, it is his personal opinion and in no way binding.

Wow! This conversation is still ongoing?
Just a little comment: I’m not so much opposing or not opposing, just wary, but I’ve actually watched ALL the Harry Potter movies (only liked the first one.) I fell asleep through part of the last one.
Where does Fr. Euteneur (sp?) state he’s never watched one of the films nor read the books? Just wondering. Maybe I missed that in the article.
You know, it might be interesting to contact Father & ask him for more specifics.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

It will go on until the people scared stiff of HP can provide some actual statistics of children who’ve gone over to the Dark Side of the Force in the 13 years since the first book came out.

 

[Barbkw]

… when they view religion as a chore, that is when they will turn from it.

Now, you’re thinking.

 

[Mumbles140]

Now, you’re thinking.

Thank you, but I’ve been supporting this statement since the quote from the Bishop was first posted. My whole point is that there are real dangers for slipping into the Occult, and in agreement with the Bishop, Harry Potter isn’t one, but isolation from the faith is.

Reading Harry Potter doesn’t make religion a chore. It doesn’t take away from religion, try to be a religion, there isn’t any religion in Harry Potter. People can enjoy Harry Potter while still being actively involved in their religion. For those who aren’t involved in religion and slip to the Occult, we’ve yet to see any evidence Harry Potter has been the cause, as RD pointed out.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

… when they view religion as a chore, that is when they will turn from it. …

Or when its presented as a mind numbing morass of fear over popular movies. For every Christian parent who rails about HP, there are a dozen who take their kids to see the movie. Talk about conflicting messages.

 

[Barbkw]

Reading Harry Potter doesn’t make religion a chore. It doesn’t take away from religion, try to be a religion, there isn’t any religion in Harry Potter.

You’ve stopping thinking like a child, a teenager, and a young adult.

How many times a day are children bored with breakfast, bored with life, bored with family, bored with “organized” religion?

And again, Harry Potter is based in paganism and in witchcraft.

Both, are established religions.

 

[hawkeye]

It amazes me how much rubbish people read from day to day, year after year, and can’t be bothered to pick up a Bible and read it.

Not saying it’s bad to read other material, but why is the Bible last on the list, if ever ?

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Agree with you completely there.Even if it’s missing 7 books or something to that effect, the KJV is beautiful to hear read aloud.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The most dangerous part about the Twilight series is now the glamorization of vampires, but the glamorization of teenage girls getting in controlling, emotionally abusive relationships with guys that are willing to watch them while they sleep. The girls swoon over Edward Cullen but his behavior is just creepy.

I understand fear of the growing theme of “everything dark can be safe,” but I don’t think this has a strong factor in turning children to the occult. I can’t think of any books I had as a kid that interested me in the occult, except maybe Greek mythology and that was an extremely small factor. I think Liberalism in our schools and culture is more dangerous. Our culture is so obsessed with tolerance that it’s easy to be too accepting.

And I’d also like to add that I’ve read Harry Potter and seen all the movies. Never once, never once did I suspect that Dumbledore is gay. His character is very non-sexual in nature. He’s a mentor and guardian figure. I believe Rowling did it because a lot of the fan fiction writers out there are obsessed with making the HP characters gay in their writings.

Yes, to have a guy break into your room and watch you sleep is called CRIMINAL TRESPASS/STALKING and it’s against the law and beyond creepy. How parents are allowing their young girls to think of this as romantic is astounding. They are setting up their daughters for future abuse.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Kids these days do have a hard time separating reality from fantasy, and as movies get more and more “real” - 3D, 4D, etc. this problem is going to become even worse.

I would say that kids shouldn’t play around with activities like spells, witchcraft, demonology, etc. and that is what the good Fr. was talking about. Normalizing these areas, this dark reality, can cause huge problems. I fully believe in the real and present danger of demons, and opening oneself up to them is not to be toyed with. A book series like HP creates likable characters who use witchcraft in the service of good, although it is a dark power of Satan.

I can imagine young people reading the HP books and then playing “spells” like in the movie, not knowing that their language might well open the door or window to real demons to come into their lives.

If posters here don’t believe in demons, well, I guess these things might seem harmless. In their form of a simple book or a movie, they are, but as a doorway into a very dark and dangerous realm, they are anything but.

 

[tjm190]

And again, Harry Potter is based in paganism and in witchcraft.

1. Please provide me an example of paganism in the Harry Potter series- as far as I can remember, there aren’t any references to such worship at all.
2. Witchcraft is an ill-defined term. Witchcraft is frowned upon in the OT primarily because witchcraft was associated with power gained from occult sources, whereas Harry Potter’s magic is just sort of a force of nature- more akin to the force in star wars than anything else.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I think I remember reading about that, too.Didn’t they have the books listed as the “Apocrypha?”

 

[Mumbles140]

You’ve stopping thinking like a child, a teenager, and a young adult.

How many times a day are children bored with breakfast, bored with life, bored with family, bored with “organized” religion?

And again, Harry Potter is based in paganism and in witchcraft.

Both, are established religions.

Again barb, I take offense. When have I been thinking like a child, a teenager, or a young adult?

I agree that, if parents do not involve their children in the faith outside of Sunday mass, they could very will become isolated from it. I also think it is important to note ‘boredom’ as being in vastly different levels. Bored with a tv show is not nearly the same as bored with religion. Or rather, it shouldn’t be.

Furthermore, you have not read Harry Potter, so don’t say it is based in paganism and in witchcraft when you have absolutely no proof of it. It is based in a fictional English society consisting of humans, some with magic powers and some without.

Paganism and Wiccan are established religions. Harry Potter is a work of fiction. I think we should worry much more about obsessive Star Wars fans preaching their ‘intergalactic peace philosophy’, as that is much closer to ‘beliefs’ than people who similarly enjoy a series of books.

 

[Julianna]

Kids these days do have a hard time separating reality from fantasy, and as movies get more and more “real” - 3D, 4D, etc. this problem is going to become even worse.

I would say that kids shouldn’t play around with activities like spells, witchcraft, demonology, etc. and that is what the good Fr. was talking about. Normalizing these areas, this dark reality, can cause huge problems. I fully believe in the real and present danger of demons, and opening oneself up to them is not to be toyed with. A book series like HP creates likable characters who use witchcraft in the service of good, although it is a dark power of Satan.

I can imagine young people reading the HP books and then playing “spells” like in the movie, not knowing that their language might well open the **door or window to real demons to come into their lives.**If posters here don’t believe in demons, well, I guess these things might seem harmless. In their form of a simple book or a movie, they are, but as a doorway into a very dark and dangerous realm, they are anything but.

Well I guess Cinderella is the next to go…with the magic wand and the spell…bibbidy, bobbidy, boo

some would call it “imagination”…things kids do when they “play pretend”…

I haven’t decided yet, if IMHO, that statement strikes as evangelical/fundy or just simple paranoia

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

It amazes me how much rubbish people read from day to day, year after year, and can’t be bothered to pick up a Bible and read it.

Not saying it’s bad to read other material, but why is the Bible last on the list, if ever ?

Because it’s not fiction or are you going to give the snotty, liberal atheists that satisfaction?

I hate to break it to you but when it comes to books, fiction will always be more entertaining than fact. From the times of the ancient empires of Greece, Egypt, and Babylon, through the Arthurian age of the medieval period, all the way down to the contemporary mix of genres we have today, the common man has always shown a fascination for what comes out of the art of imagination. Let’s face facts, we deal with reality every day. We acknowledge its constraints, we know what will happen because that’s how it works in the real world yadda yadda yadda…Honestly, what else is there?

Now when you enter the world of imagination, then all those constraints shatter. The possibilities of what you’ll find are endless. You’ll find yourself in a place completely different from what you’re used to. That’s why it’s so exciting and when people want excitement, then they’re gonna get it from where they get it best.

I know this will hurt a lot of religious people here, but the Bible really does have a low entertainment value.

You wanna know why? It’s. Not. A. TOY!!!

It’s our Holy Book! Our Sacred Scripture! You don’t play around with Sacred Scripture. You take it seriously like a scientist treats books on chemistry, biology, and physics seriously. However, those books aren’t at the top of the list either. Reason? It’s the same reason with the Bible.

It’s not a work of fiction.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Kids these days do have a hard time separating reality from fantasy, and as movies get more and more “real” - 3D, 4D, etc. this problem is going to become even worse.

If you’re a parent and your child has the trouble distinguishing, then you only have yourself to blame. The ability to know fact from fiction is one of the most basic in every sane human being. It’s plain old common sense for crying out loud.

A book series like HP creates likable characters who use witchcraft in the service of good, although it is a dark power of Satan.

Fantasy Witchcraft =/= Real Witchcraft

I can imagine young people reading the HP books and then playing “spells” like in the movie, not knowing that their language might well open the door or window to real demons to come into their lives.

I just said Wingardium Leviosa. My PSP didn’t fly.

Let’s try something much darker.

I just said Imperio. Hrrm… nope, the guy arranging books a few feet away from me isn’t doing anything I have willed.

Okay, how about spells not found in Harry Potter?

Oh admonishing melody, arise in the name of the Necromancer! Mystic Cage!!!

“Agite Tenebrae Abyssi, Ensis Incendens! Et Incendium Caliginis Umbrae Inimicitiae Destructionis Ultionis! Incendant et Me et Eum, Sint Solum Incendentes! Incendium Gehennae!!”

Karyuu no… Houkou!!!

Nope. Library is still one piece. sighs Such a shame… >:\

Now, what were you saying about words opening doors and demons and stuff? ??

 

[curlycool89]

Kids these days do have a hard time separating reality from fantasy, and as movies get more and more “real” - 3D, 4D, etc. this problem is going to become even worse.

[citation needed] Or, we’ll just accept that as your opinion and not a fact. I’ve seen many 3D movies (man, they’re great!), and well I’m still here. I think I’ve said this like a dozen times, but if people have trouble separating fiction from reality then they need to see their psychiatrist to get a diagnosis and treatment. Normal people do not have problems separating fiction from reality, as this is a sign of a mental disorder.

If posters here don’t believe in demons, well, I guess these things might seem harmless. In their form of a simple book or a movie, they are, but as a doorway into a very dark and dangerous realm, they are anything but.

“While I’m hear, I’m going to throw out a false dichotomy that people who read HP don’t believe in demons” :banghead:

You know what I’d like to rant about? How people have become so used to our “sound bite” world that everything gets conflated (look it up) because people find it too hard to understand the idea of “mutual exclusivity” (look it up).

I know this will hurt a lot of religious people here, but the Bible really does have a low entertainment value.

As a person who has read the entire Bible (ok, almost. I’ll finish Malachi tonight and then I’ll have gone through the entire thing), I agree. 1-2 Samuel, 1 Kings, and 1-2 Maccabees, and bits of the 4 Gospels would be considered the “highlights”. Maybe Revelations.

Several books I’m not going to bother reading again (2nd half of Exodus and Leviticus for starters because they relate to the ancient Jewish Priesthood and rituals and are very dry). Jeremiah, despite being known as the “prophet of doom”, gets extremely repetitive near the end. The first 10 chapters of 1 Chronicles I skipped because it’s all genealogies (which some people may find interesting, but I find boring).

I actually started last March (as in March 2009). Since then I’ve read something like a dozen fiction books, because The Bible’s not the easiest thing to pick up and try to read it (I tired to read a certain number of chapters or pages per night). On the other hand, I can easily read 20 pages of a good book in a snap (actually, I generally limit how much of a book I’ll read because otherwise I go through it too fast), and I’m sure I’ve read 50 in a night (right before bed of course).