Church fights same-sex 'marriage' in Spain

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katherine2:
Hence the claim that one is preventing more sin and scandal and keeping other souls safe does not give one a blank check to persue any forced action.
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Not a blank check. But it does give one a right to promote laws that would create a more peaceful and prosperous nation and promote the general welfare or children.
 
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fix:
I would laugh at the absurdity of your position if it were not so sad. Your words examplify the sad state of our culture. We no longer accept the truth because we are afraid to may “hurt” someone else’s feelings.

Sodomy is not a right. No one has a right to adopt children if they suffer from a mental condition like same sex attraction.
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Mental condition? You sound like someone reading from a 1950’s text book.
 
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Mac6yver:
Mental condition? You sound like someone reading from a 1950’s text book.
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You sound like someone who can’t make a substantive point so instead results to ridicule.

The evidence that homosexuality is a mental disorder caused by environmental factors overwhelming. The fact that this evidence has been basically suppressed since the American Psychiatric Association voted in 1973 (after pressure from pro-gay groups and not in light any new scientific evidence) to remove homosexuality from its list of disorders doesn’t actually make all this clinical evidence go away.

Prior to the APA’s 1973 decision, which was all about politics and nothing about science, there was an extensive body of literature about the social and psychological causes of homosexuality. The concensus of nearly every researcher in the field was that the causes of same-sex attraction are many and varied, and are always attributable to some combination of early childhood development, parental influence, and child abuse.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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Mac6yver:
Mental condition? You sound like someone reading from a 1950’s text book.
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About time.

It is a mental condition. Their parts sure ain’t made for it to be a biological one.
 
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mlchance:
You sound like someone who can’t make a substantive point so instead results to ridicule.
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To debate you and most others on these forums in regards to homosexuality would be an excercise in futility. I might as well try to convert you all to Islam. I would have the same rate of success.
 
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Mac6yver:
To debate you and most others on these forums in regards to homosexuality would be an excercise in futility. I might as well try to convert you all to Islam. I would have the same rate of success.
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Ah, I get it. Your failure to engage in an intellectually honest discussion is actually my fault. How silly of me. I forthwith cease to be such a cause.

Whew! I feel much better.

Now, that said, you trying to advance a counter-argument about the causes of same-sex attraction would be an exercise in futility because you’re wrong, which is basically the same reason you’d fail to get me to convert to Islam.

Homosexuality is an aberrant mental condition. The evidence for this is overwhelming, especially when considered next to the total lack of evidence for any other cause.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
In my country a parlamentarian from PSOE, the Zapatero´s party want to denounce the bishops for picking up a paper where say “God create Man and a Woman” and where explains why the church is against these unions because the marriage is only a union between a man and a woman and nomore, and in addition in this socialist law, they want that gays and lesbians could addopt children, the Church express their catholic opinion because we are catholics and we want the “Common Well”, and the government want to shut up the church, because is bothering,
europapress.es/europa2003/noticia.aspx?cod=20041228150810&tabID=1&ch=73
This link is in spanish. Greetings and pray for my country.
 
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mlchance:
Ah, I get it. Your failure to engage in an intellectually honest discussion is actually my fault. How silly of me. I forthwith cease to be such a cause.

Whew! I feel much better.

Now, that said, you trying to advance a counter-argument about the causes of same-sex attraction would be an exercise in futility because you’re wrong, which is basically the same reason you’d fail to get me to convert to Islam.

Homosexuality is an aberrant mental condition. The evidence for this is overwhelming, especially when considered next to the total lack of evidence for any other cause.

– Mark L. Chance.
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Sticks and stones. You Texan’s certainly do get agitated, it must be all that heat.
 
SSAD is a mental disorder. There is so much illegitimate science today we must be careful to properly discern what is true. There are all types of psychiatrists, psychologists, scientists, etc. Just because some agit prop group like the APA says it is not a disorder does not chnage the truth.
 
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Mac6yver:
Sticks and stones. You Texans certainly do get agitated, it must be all that heat.
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I’m not agitated, and it’s quite nice outside right now.

So, instead of yet more ridicule and avoiding the point, how about this?: Demonstrate that the APA based its 1973 decision to remove homosexuality from its list of disorders on scientific evidence.

You can do that, can’t you?

– Mark L. Chance.
 
I have posted evidence in other threads on this forum regarding that very evidence. Every time that I do it is dismissed as a “scientist with an agenda”. Or “bad science”. So I have little interest in repeating such a thing.
 
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Mac6yver:
I have posted evidence in other threads on this forum regarding that very evidence. Every time that I do it is dismissed as a “scientist with an agenda”. Or “bad science”. So I have little interest in repeating such a thing.
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Aw, c’mon. You could at least post a link to one of these alleged threads. Something. Anything except yet another cop-out.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
We can all save our breath and call all civil marriages, civil unions. Up here in Massachusetts where homosexual have the right to marry, companies are now removing their domestic partner benefits to new employess, grandfathering in old ones. Now the homosexual lobby is upset that they are being treated equally.

As for mentally illness, since I’ve studies female sexuality to such an extent and even nominal study would suffice, a woman’s body is well fit for a man’s. Why would a man what to put it anywhere else? Do I have to be graphic on it?
 
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katherine2:
Dear Fiat,

I wholely concurr with your most temperate and balanced statement.

The only reason I raised Social Security was Fix’s claim that “Civil laws that are legitimate all come from God.”. I think there is a third animal out there of laws that are legitimate but not of divine decree. I think Aquinis agrees with me.
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The Ten Commandments are an expression of what the Church calls the Natural Law. Here God commands that one should not murder, steal, lie, commit adultery etc. Now man already knows this in his heart because he has a conscience. Hence man does not need that God come down and forbid him to do such actions. Man already knows that by the natural law in his heart. Now the basis of all human laws is the natural law. The natural law forbids murder, stealing, lying. Now the human laws of a nation are designed to back up the natural law. Each nation has different ways of handling the punishment meted out to murderers, robbers, rapists. These laws can vary from nation to nation, state to state. That is ok. What human law cannot do is to make legal those actions which are against the natural law. Thus the Supreme Court has gone against natural law when it permitted the murdering of the unborn. Thus this law is not legitimate. It is unjust. Here we have an example of human law going against the natural law. If laws should be passed in the future which make consider the union of man with a man or a woman with a woman to be a marriage, we would have another example of human law going against natural law. Dr. Geraghty

ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=414547&Forums=0&Experts=32&Days=3000&Author=&Keyword=civil+laws&pgnu=1&groupnum=0
 
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renee1258:
As for mentally illness, since I’ve studies female sexuality to such an extent and even nominal study would suffice, a woman’s body is well fit for a man’s. Why would a man what to put it anywhere else? Do I have to be graphic on it?
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So are you saying that all of those people who engage in oral sex, myself included, have a mental disorder? After all, the mouth is no place for genitals…
 
Lets humor you and just say it’s not a mental disorder. Then is committed with deliberate consent of the sodomite. And we already know it’s grave matter. And obviously those in such disorders relationships know it’s wrong, everybody with a Bible has been telling them for years.

You would make a batter case arguing that it’s a mental disorder (which it is), you could at least cut them a little slack that way.
 
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Mac6yver:
So are you saying that all of those people who engage in oral sex, myself included, have a mental disorder? After all, the mouth is no place for genitals…
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Actually yes, including myself in the past. I’ve smarten up, and since then been enjoying my sex life a lot more. Think about it. Not a mental illness, just dumb, and disrespectful to one’s self esteem to be used in such a way.
 
Political pressure was exerted on the American Psychiatric Association by gays and lesbians to declare homosexuality to be “normal.” A decision was made in 1973 to remove the condition from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). It was made not on the basis of science but voted on by APA members, which the poll was initiated and funded by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. The vote was 5,834 to 3,810.

Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, a psychiatric professor at Columbia University, released the results of his research at a meeting of the APA in May 2001. Spitzer, who led the APA’s decision in 1973 to declassify homosexuality as a mental-health disorder, says his findings “show some people can change from gay to straight, and we ought to acknowledge that.”

For more information:
narth.com
newdirection.ca/research/spitzer.htm
cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html
couragerc.org
drthrockmorton.com
peoplecanchange.com
lovewonout.org
 
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