Church in worst credibility crisis since Reformation, theologian [H. Kung] tells bishops

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Ahimsa

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The consequences of all these scandals for the reputation of the Catholic Church are disastrous. Important church leaders have already admitted this. Numerous innocent and committed pastors and educators are suffering under the stigma of suspicion now blanketing the church. You, reverend bishops, must face up to the question: What will happen to our church and to your diocese in the future? It is not my intention to sketch out a new program of church reform. That I have done often enough both before and after the council. Instead, I want only to lay before you six proposals that I am convinced are supported by millions of Catholics who have no voice in the current situation.
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Unconditional obedience is owed to God alone: Although at your episcopal consecration you had to take an oath of unconditional obedience to the pope, you know that unconditional obedience can never be paid to any human authority; it is due to God alone
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There he blows. Still amazes me that a brilliant theologian like him just does not get it.
 
Santi2 said:
There he blows. Still amazes me that a brilliant theologian like him just does not get it.
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As I said in another thread, there are those even within the Catholic Church that would love nothing more than to diminish and even obliterate the authority of the Papacy. Nothing new under the sun…has been going on for quite some time…with clergy that spout this kind of stuff the Church doesn’t need enemies.
 
Teelynn said:
As I said in another thread, there are those even within the Catholic Church that would love nothing more than to diminish and even obliterate the authority of the Papacy. Nothing new under the sun…has been going on for quite some time…with clergy that spout this kind of stuff the Church doesn’t need enemies.
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What in the world happened to him anyway that made him churn out his version of theology?
 
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Ahimsa:
If Kung’s stance weren’t so sad, it might be amusing.

Historically, Kung is one who has created many credibilty problems for the Church.
Now he blames the Holy Father who has offered forgiveness and mercy to him?

Takes all kinds …
 
In the post-conciliar era, however, the pope and the Curia have ignored this decree…
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False. It’s certain bishops who have ignored collegiality, acting willfully (as if they were masters of their own house) and completely out of communion with Peter and with what the Spirit is saying to the Churches.

Enough already! How can Kung have the gall to make headway for his ‘cause’ out of the trauma of victims who’ve suffered abuse and the pain of so many whose faith has been shaken by the scandal? Excommunicate Kung now, Holy Father!
 
Jermosh said:
What exactly does he not get really?
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He doesn’t “get” the doctrine of Papal infallibility. He doesn’t “get” the idea of the Magisterium. He doesn’t even “get” his own goal of collegiality. It isn’t collegiality to communicate with his brother bishops by way of an open letter printed in the Irish Times. :confused:
 
Corki said:
He doesn’t “get” the doctrine of Papal infallibility. He doesn’t “get” the idea of the Magisterium. He doesn’t even “get” his own goal of collegiality. It isn’t collegiality to communicate with his brother bishops by way of an open letter printed in the Irish Times. :confused:
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It was my understanding that he is no longer allowed to act as a theologian or call himself one, yet that seems to be what he is doing.
 
Corki said:
He doesn’t “get” the doctrine of Papal infallibility. He doesn’t “get” the idea of the Magisterium. He doesn’t even “get” his own goal of collegiality. It isn’t collegiality to communicate with his brother bishops by way of an open letter printed in the Irish Times. :confused:
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As again, what does he not get? The pope is only infallible on issues of faith and morals, not on science, legal, socialoligy, medicine, etc, etc.
 
Jermosh said:
As again, what does he not get? The pope is only infallible on issues of faith and morals, not on science, legal, socialoligy, medicine, etc, etc.
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You understand that and I understand that. Hans Kung, on the other hand, has a different position than the Church’s.
Father Kung, who has taught in Germany for decades, has frequently challenged official church positions on papal infallibility, birth control, priestly celibacy and the all-male priesthood. In 1979 the Vatican withdrew permission for him to teach as a Catholic theologian, although it did not restrict his ministry as a Catholic priest.
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The quote is from NCR (and they are fans of his).
 
How sad. He sees the Church wounded and suffering and he offers poison just like the soldiers offered vinagre mixed with gall to Jesus. His actions, comments and callousness only justifies the decisions made about his incompetence as a theologian. I will keep him in my prayers.
 
Corki said:
You understand that and I understand that. Hans Kung, on the other hand, has a different position than the Church’s.

The quote is from NCR (and they are fans of his).
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Shrugs, still do not see the issue. Were are supposed to challenge our shepards, I do not see an issue with challenging our sheperd with those issues. With Challenge comes clarity, and alertness to the Truth. These are good things.
 
Were are supposed to challenge our shepards, I do not see an issue with challenging our sheperd with those issues. With Challenge comes clarity, and alertness to the Truth. These are good things.
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Well and good if challenges seek to clarify and not dispute or distract from what is dogmatic to our faith. Clarity is not the case with Hans Kung. His challenges do not offer unity of faith.
 
Santi2 said:
Well and good if challenges seek to clarify and not dispute or distract from what is dogmatic to our faith. Clarity is not the case with Hans Kung. His challenges do not offer unity of faith.
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Hmm, I dont know. A lot of good things came from schisms within the Church, a lot of bad as well though. I think my issue is that he seems to have some valid points, the largest point is that the Hiarchy is directly responsible for this scandle, not a pychologists, the offenders who did it, or the media.
 
Hmm, I dont know. A lot of good things came from schisms within the Church, a lot of bad as well though. I think my issue is that he seems to have some valid points, the largest point is that the Hiarchy is directly responsible for this scandle, not a pychologists, the offenders who did it, or the media.
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Hans Kung schismatic theology is almost Lutheran to me. And, we all know what happened when theological thoughts and disobedience follow that track. As to “valid points”, I think that is debateable and refutable. I hold the “but for” principle and rest my arguments on the errant priest. Hans Kung will obviously not take that position because he is so contrary.
 
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