Church is in the dark about gays

[Libero]

estesbob:

And dead wrong. The point is you disagree with the teachings of your Church. That pouts you in peril but that is a personal decision you made. What most of us have a problem with is your attitude that somehow by condoning the grave sin of homosexuality you are expressing “love” while the rest of us are dogmatic bigots.

I have yet to see you explain why I should jettison two thousand years of teachings and traditions based on your muddled explantaions of why you know better than the Church.

Ooooh don’t be silly, nobody here is a bigot, I don’t sense hate in your messages.

I am not trying to convince anyone to try and ditch the church, but rather, I voiced a viewpoint on the authors comments. This is a forum, that is what they are intended for, it would be so much more boring if everyone just agreed with each other, in fact what would there be to say? This thread would be at tops 10 posts

 

[Libero]

bones_IV:

Libero, your definition of threat is me telling someone they’re putting they soul at risk of eternal damnation? No it isn’t. That is not a threat.

I put it into inverted speech marks, that removes the deadly certainty from it - makes it less of a threat, more of a generalisation

 

[trustmc]

Libero:

But you see believing in everything he says is hard…

It’s supposed to be hard. :clapping:

Jesus said, “Take up your cross and follow me. If you do not take up your cross and follow me daily, then you are not worthy of me.”

If you are finding it difficult to be a Christian, then you are in a very good position. In fact, you are in quite good company. No Saint ever found the way of the cross easy!

OK, so you have some disagreements with the teaching. For now, though, you must accept that they are correct and you are wrong. It took me 10 years after becoming a committed Christian to be a Catholic because I couldn’t accept much of what the Catholic Church taught. But through it all I loved the Lord and I still kept asking God for understaning, for not once did I ever mistake my love for Him with correct understanding of his ways. I had a lot to learn and still do.

You say that you think Catholic teaching is contradictory. Well, so did I at one time too. But now I can see and understand the incredible consistency and seemlessness of Catholic doctrine, both moral and theological. It’s a wonder I couldn’t see it before.

Trust me, Catholic teaching on homosexuality is more charitable, more loving, more forgiving and more gracious than anything the secular world can come up with. We want to see homosexuals saved and in heaven, and we’re not asking them to do anything that we ourselves wouldn’t be willing to do. And countless men and women who previously struggled with SSA can testify that freedom in Christ is more preferable than slavery to aberrant sex. “What good does it a man who gains the whole world but loses heaven?” The Church offers all sinners heaven in lieu of the world. Pray for understanding, and I’ll pray for you too.

Mike

P.S. Understanding of doctrine became more clear to me when I stepped out of my world and into the world of others through charity and ministry. I suggest you remove the focus on yourself and set your sights on others. Work at least weekly for a Church-approved apostolate like a crisis pregnancy center, a soup kitchen or prison ministry. “It is in giving that we receive, and it is in pardoning that we are pardoned.” – St. Francis of Assisi

 

[Libero]

trustmc:

It’s supposed to be hard. :clapping:

Jesus said, “Take up your cross and follow me. If you do not take up your cross and follow me daily, then you are not worthy of me.”

If you are finding it difficult to be a Christian, then you are in a very good position. In fact, you are in quite good company. No Saint ever found the way of the cross easy!

OK, so you have some disagreements with the teaching. For now, though, you must accept that they are correct and you are wrong. It took me 10 years after becoming a committed Christian to be a Catholic because I couldn’t accept much of what the Catholic Church taught. But through it all I loved the Lord and I still kept asking God for understaning, for not once did I ever mistake my love for Him with correct understanding of his ways. I had a lot to learn and still do.

You say that you think Catholic teaching is contradictory. Well, so did I at one time too. But now I can see and understand the incredible consistency and seemlessness of Catholic doctrine, both moral and theological. It’s a wonder I couldn’t see it before.

Trust me, Catholic teaching on homosexuality is more charitable, more loving, more forgiving and more gracious than anything the secular world can come up with. We want to see homosexuals saved and in heaven, and we’re not asking them to do anything that we ourselves wouldn’t be willing to do. And countless men and women who previously struggled with SSA can testify that freedom in Christ is more preferable than slavery to aberrant sex. “What good does it a man who gains the whole world but loses heaven?” The Church offers all sinners heaven in lieu of the world. Pray for understanding, and I’ll pray for you too.

Mike

P.S. Understanding of doctrine became more clear to me when I stepped out of my world and into the world of others through charity and ministry. I suggest you remove the focus on yourself and set your sights on others. Work at least weekly for a Church-approved apostolate like a crisis pregnancy center, a soup kitchen or prison ministry. “It is in giving that we receive, and it is in pardoning that we are pardoned.” – St. Francis of Assisi

I strongly believe that if I am going to come in line with the church then it shall be a little while yet, I would rather discover God than be forced to accept him.

Otherwise, I’d love to be able to do charity work!!!

I wanted to start this about a month ago, I feel that it is exactly the type of thing I could do, unfortunately, I am only a teen (they don’t trust us in the kitchens) and my local hospital is closing down.

However I have filed to do voluntary community service as a part of my 6th form experience - I was hoping to do it in a primary school, there are a number of Catholic ones, but it really wouldn’t make much difference whether they are or not around here.

 

[trustmc]

Libero:

Otherwise, I’d love to be able to do charity work!!!

I wanted to start this about a month ago, I feel that it is exactly the type of thing I could do, unfortunately, I am only a teen (they don’t trust us in the kitchens) and my local hospital is closing down.

However I have filed to do voluntary community service as a part of my 6th form experience - I was hoping to do it in a primary school, there are a number of Catholic ones, but it really wouldn’t make much difference whether they are or not around here.

Teens can be trusted at a McDonalds but not a soup kitchen? :ehh:

You’re young and strong. You can always volunteer at a nursing home, even if it’s just cutting the grass, playing cards with the residents, or teaching them how to enjoy ipods and podcasts. Just a suggestion.

It would make a difference if you worked for a secular or Catholic organization. Find a Church affiliated school or charity run by the religious so that you could become friends with some nuns or priests. They can answer all your theological questions in person.

 

[rlg94086]

God bless you in your journey! The best place to “discover” God is in the Church. I’m not sure where you are being forced to accept him, as we all have free will. If someone is forcing you, tell them to stop.

In addition to good works, I would also like to recommend prayer and contemplation. This is another way to find God. I had a great conversation once with a priest who is a converted Presbyterian minister. I assumed his conversion was from some great theologians, like Scott Hahn (also a convert from the Presbyterian church). Instead, he told me it was from prayer. Apparently God is easier to hear, if we can just stop listening to our own voices long enough and listen to him.

Libero:

I strongly believe that if I am going to come in line with the church then it shall be a little while yet, I would rather discover God than be forced to accept him.

Otherwise, I’d love to be able to do charity work!!!

I wanted to start this about a month ago, I feel that it is exactly the type of thing I could do, unfortunately, I am only a teen (they don’t trust us in the kitchens) and my local hospital is closing down.

However I have filed to do voluntary community service as a part of my 6th form experience - I was hoping to do it in a primary school, there are a number of Catholic ones, but it really wouldn’t make much difference whether they are or not around here.

 

[Libero]

trustmc:

Teens can be trusted at a McDonalds but not a soup kitchen? :ehh:

You’re young and strong. You can always volunteer at a nursing home, even if it’s just cutting the grass, playing cards with the residents, or teaching them how to enjoy ipods and podcasts. Just a suggestion.

It would make a difference if you worked for a secular or Catholic organization. Find a Church affiliated school or charity run by the religious so that you could become friends with some nuns or priests. They can answer all your theological questions in person.

Oh all the soup kitchens around here are run by old women - (they don’t like young helpers having too much responsibility) As for the other ideas, you are right, I should apply somewhere, it is hard to find priests around here though, there are only 3 in my town, and I don’t recall ever being visited by a priest in Primary School (except for mass) but you could never hear them anyway…

 

[rciadan]

Libero
why is there a need to convince yourself that telling people what to do is loving them

A mother loves her children* precisely** by telling them what to do !*

• Look both ways before you cross the street!
• Brush your teeth!
• Don’t touch that…!
• No, you can’t go to…!
• Yes you will eat your …!
• Listen to your father…!

Etc, etc, and the list goes on. Any parent who loves their child spends their whole life instructing (telling) them how to behave, what to avoid (for their own sake) and who to avoid. Love is practical, not theological or philisophical. Love is willing to risk being laughed at or enduring the anger of those whom you love enough to admonish, in order that you may see them live to a ripe old age and to avoid so much suffering later on.

• Don’t smoke!
• Don’t drink!
• Don’t …

As children we so often think that Mom is stupid or ignorant or old fashioned, just like what you said about our Mother the Church. As we get older we realize that it was Mom who was the wise one. It was Mom who really showed she cared about us with all her fussing and orders, not our friends who were actually only interested in having fun, with no regard for our long term welfare. As we get older we talk to Mom more and on a different level and we discover as we listen the whys and wherefores of the decisions she made when we were young.
The Church is our Mom. We did not pick her, God did, just like He chose our biological mother. She will always be our Mother no matter what we do or how far we go to get away from her. I pray that one day you will be able to come home and sit down with Her and really make an attempt to understand why She does what She does. I’m afraid that you will insist on experiencing much pain first and I pray that the path you seem to be deciding to follow does not lead to you death before you can experience the love and embrace of the Most Perfect Mother, the Church. The only thing that prevents that embrace is you, for Her arms are forever open wide.
Yet Her very nature demands that She act like a Mother! It is unreasonable to demand that She stop.
Go with God and may your guardian angle keep you safe from harm till you make your way home.