Church of Christ Campaign

[bhanifan]

boppysbud:

Amontoya perhaps I was wrong about you, if so I appologise.

You are so liberal compared to all the other Campellites I know, that it is hard to beleive that you belong to the same denomination. Do you object to being called a member of a denomination, most Campbelites do?

You do sound as if you belong to a great church, had I been raised in such a church I might still be a Campbellite myself. But the church I was raised in (Eisenhower church of Christ) was very different form your description, as well as every other “cofC” I have experienced.

Do you mind if I ask what general part of the country you live in? If you live in California or other liberal areas, your experience with the “church of Christ” could indeed be very different from mine. My experience with the “churches of Christ” could be best be described as extremely nit-picking legalism. Churches splitting over such issues as whether to have sunday school classes, whether to use a common chalice or individual shot glasses for communion, over whether or not it was “scriptural” or not to have kitchen and hall facilities on church property. All those things led to congregations splitting and labeling those they dissagreed with as “non Christians”.

You just perfectly described my experience with the churches of Christ. My wife is a church of Christ christian and her congregation here in Reno split a few years ago over whether women could teach children or not. It seems as if they may split again soon over some other issue. This creates the extraordinary situation of having 4 or 5 church of Christ congregations in Reno that do not acknowledge each other. It truly is amazing!

 

[bhanifan]

## Is there anything about them on-line, that is both informative and fair-minded ? I’ve heard of them - or of bodies with the same name - but know nothing about them

Thanks in advance ##

A man named R. J. Grigaitis has an excellent website about this church. He is a convert to the Catholic church and has attempted to engage members of his former church in dialogue multiple times.

 

[ABalch]

Apologia100:

It would only work if you used a crusafix, and not a plain cross like the one pictured. Even better if you had a rosary attached to it.

I see know reason to surmise this is not a crucifix. It would be plain to me that if I was holding a crucifix to ward off evil, I would direct the corpus Christi toward the evil, not toward myself.

 

[Nicky]

I’m in the church of Christ, but haven’t heard of most of what is being described here. I grew up in the Methodist church. My first experience with the Catholic church was when I was four years old back in '63. I had a blockage in a kidney and needed surgery. My father made sure I was sent to Mercy Hospital in Charlotte. It was a Catholic hospital and it was very important to him that there would be folks there that would be praying for me.

Nick

 

[eleusis]

My handbook of denominations of the Christian faith has literally THOUSANDS of protestant sects. Which CoC are we speaking of in this thread? CoC Crucified, CoC Scientists, CoC of Jerusalem, CoC Holiness, CoC Sanctified, CoC Temple Lot or CoC in Christian Union??

Whew, when one gets to make up any ole religion I guess this is what you get.

And when they ask where is Pope in the bible shouldn’t we first shoot back; how do you have faith in the bible, by what authority do you trust it? Which should turn the table to discussing their one time faith in the Catholic Church and then that they fell away from truth in the PR. They lost their faith in the same Church who had the authority to cannonize which scriptures without error.

My 2 cents…

 

[kim_wilson]

My conversion to the Catholic church (I was formerly Baptist) occurred during my first year of teaching at a Church of Christ college. My department head told me that I would never have been hired if they had known I was going to become Catholic. I was told to never reveal my Catholicism to the students. Several of the more die hard C.O.C. students did find out and complained about me to the dean. I kept my job but only after a little interrogation. I’ve since moved, but will never ever forget that experience.

 

[Matt14]

Wow, I’m new here and just read this thread.

I’m not sure what “church of Christ” this is, but I am a member of the church of Christ and I can assure you these stereotypes posted aove are ot true. I’m sure, like any group, there are some who behave badly, but who among us can throw the first stone on that point?

If anyone has any questions about the church of Christ, and would like answers from an actual member of the church, just let me know. I’d be glad to answer.

 

[kim_wilson]

Matt,
You must be a member of one of the more liberal Church of Christ churches. I know some especially in the North are starting to lay back and use instruments.

kim

 

[Matt14]

kim wilson:

Matt,
You must be a member of one of the more liberal Church of Christ churches. I know some especially in the North are starting to lay back and use instruments.

kim

Hi Kim,

No, actually my congregation would be considered very conservative. I am a minister for the church of Christ in the north Mississippi area, so if you’ve got questions, you’ll be getting it “right from the horse’s mouth,” so to speak.

The mainline church of Christ IS NOT affiliated with the United Church of Christ or the International Church of Christ in any way.

The distinctive characteristics of the church of Christ include belief in the necessity of water baptism and acapella singing only. We still hold to this today.

 

[TNT]

Matt14:

Hi Kim,

No, actually my congregation would be considered very conservative. I am a minister for the church of Christ in the north Mississippi area, so if you’ve got questions, you’ll be getting it “right from the horse’s mouth,” so to speak.

The mainline church of Christ IS NOT affiliated with the United Church of Christ or the International Church of Christ in any way.

The distinctive characteristics of the church of Christ include belief in the necessity of water baptism and acapella singing only. We still hold to this today.

Welcome, MATT14 !
I love civil discourse with COC…hard to come by.
I rather like the COC except when the preacher gets on a “all denominations are hell bound” tirade!
The 3 points I hold against them in theology (not a nice word in COC) are:

1. Denial of the spiritual effects of Original Sin.
2. Wine means grape juice, (that wouldn’t get to 1st base at a Seder Passover), and
3. “My flesh is meat indeed , my blood is drink indeed” are discarded in any literal sense.

I have a lovely 18 yr old niece who is CONSERVATIVE COC, and I love her dearly…as much as my own daughters. She now wears a Cross necklace at least.

 

[Matt14]

TNT:

Welcome, MATT14 !
I love civil discourse with COC…hard to come by.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of young debaters out there who have not developed a love for the souls of others. We should all be civil, if, like Christ, our intent is to seek and save the lost.

I rather like the COC except when the preacher gets on a “all denominations are hell bound” tirade!

That can wear on members of the church, as well.

The 3 points I hold against them in theology (not a nice word in COC) are:

1. Denial of the spiritual effects of Original Sin.
2. Wine means grape juice, (that wouldn’t get to 1st base at a Seder Passover), and
3. “My flesh is meat indeed , my blood is drink indeed” are discarded in any literal sense.

These are common things we would disagree on, though I’m not sure it’s sinful to use actual win in the Lord’s Supper. I’d love to discuss these things with you some time.

I have a lovely 18 yr old niece who is CONSERVATIVE COC, and I love her dearly…as much as my own daughters. She now wears a Cross necklace at least.

So you’re making progress? LOL

 

[NonDenom]

boppysbud:

The issue of cult or not cult is not as black and white as we would like it to be.

One “branch” of the “cofC” the International (or Boston) churches of Christ is regarded as a cult by just about everyone including other “csoC”.

They are a strict cult and control every member’s personal life by a process they call “discipling”.

Other “main stream” scofC also practice shunning in order to control thier members (Control and shunning are two well known traits held by cults).

In another site where I also participate there is a woman who opened a thread called “Disfellowshipped by Church of Christ” who decribes how she was “disfellowshipped”, shunned by all the members of the “Churches of Christ” in her area, (they communicate with each other about “disfellowshipped” members, and cannot attend any “church of Christ” in her area. What was her terrible sin that resulted in her “disfellowshipment”? She was party in a divorce WITHOUT remarriage. Her husband the other party in the divorce who has “re-married” was not shunned and still continues to go to the same “cofC” with the same status as before. What is wrong with this picture?

In my own experience I have been and continue to be shunned by family members for the sin of “leaving Christ and his one true church” that is the “cofC.”

When a denomination considers itself to be not only the “true church”, but indeed the “only Christians” as the cofC does, that is a good indicator that they are a cult.

Hi all
I know a lot about the ICOC, and find a few things that you said are wrong, arent wrong. As a matter of fact they are commanded,
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

You also end up saying that:
When a denomination considers itself to be not only the “true church”, but indeed the “only Christians” as the cofC does, that is a good indicator that they are a cult.

I see it said all the time here on this site that the Catholic church is the only “true church”. Am I then to assume that you are saying that the Catholic church is a cult?
thanks

 

[Lillith]

NonDenom:

Hi all
I know a lot about the ICOC, and find a few things that you said are wrong, arent wrong. As a matter of fact they are commanded,
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

AMEN…I love scriptue, but I don’t really get how that is something Catholics disagree with??

Nondenom:

You also end up saying that:
When a denomination considers itself to be not only the “true church”, but indeed the “only Christians” as the cofC does, that is a good indicator that they are a cult.

I see it said all the time here on this site that the Catholic church is the only “true church”. Am I then to assume that you are saying that the Catholic church is a cult?
thanks

Nope…because the Catholic Church acknowledges other Churches as being Christian

Catholics believe that we have the fullness of the truth, other denominations of protestantism have degrees of truth, but not the fullness of truth…

 

[NonDenom]

Lillith:

AMEN…I love scriptue, but I don’t really get how that is something Catholics disagree with??

Hi Lillith
I was simply replying to him saying the ICOC controls people by something they call “Discipling”. We are told to make Disciples of all nations, so there is nothing wrong with discipling people.

Nope…because the Catholic Church acknowledges other Churches as being Christian

Then why do Catholics say that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church?

Catholics believe that we have the fullness of the truth, other denominations of protestantism have degrees of truth, but not the fullness of truth…

This of course is a matter of opinion.
Thanks

 

[kim_wilson]

Well Matt you are a kind soul. I taught Music Appreciation at Faulkner University for one year. Unfortunately that included a section on medieval and renaissance music history which is altogether Catholic. Didn’t sit too well with certain of the more conservative Church of Christ students. Unfortunately I couldn’t change history to accomodate their prejudices. Even the dean rolled his eyes at their accusations.

BTW, I went through RCIA (catechism) with a really nice convert from the COC.

Overall, though, most of the faculty and staff were pretty nice.

 

[Lillith]

Nondenom:

Then why do catholics say there is no salvation outside the church

I do not believe that there is no salvation outside of the church, and the catechism agrees with me! Some individual catholics might adhere to such a heavy handed attitude, but that not the teaching of the church!

 

[2BinChrist]

I am also a revert, welcome home! I think that the best way to deal with anyone like this is with charity. Their thoughts of Catholics don’t change when we are rude and disrespectful to them. I highly encourage you to share your testimony and return home to the Catholic Church. Admit that you don’t know everything and are still learning.Thank them for coming and gently say good night…
Robin

 

[Matt14]

kim wilson:

Well Matt you are a kind soul. I taught Music Appreciation at Faulkner University for one year. Unfortunately that included a section on medieval and renaissance music history which is altogether Catholic. Didn’t sit too well with certain of the more conservative Church of Christ students. Unfortunately I couldn’t change history to accomodate their prejudices. Even the dean rolled his eyes at their accusations.

BTW, I went through RCIA (catechism) with a really nice convert from the COC.

Overall, though, most of the faculty and staff were pretty nice.

Yes, Faulkner is a good school. It’s sad that some students raised such a stink. I’m sorry you had those difficulties there.I think, however, that it benefits everyone to have a clear and unbiased understanding of history, even music history, no matter what religions are involved. Helps to understand the world, doesn’t it?

After graduating high school, I earned an associate’s degree in music, classical piano major. I play many instruments and love instrumental music. And yet, I still see no place for the instrument in the worship of the church. Isn’t that wacky? In those younger days I remember being in the college choir singing “Dona Nobis Pacem,” with no idea of what I was singing. lol

Of course, I suppose you could sing that in worship, if you leave the piano out. lol

Good to meet you, Kim.

 

[kim_wilson]

Interesting Matt–my first degree was in piano performance. And also interesting is the fact that for the first several hundred years of Catholic church history, only vocal, monophonic music was allowed in the church. It was commenting that the early Catholic church and the current COC were together on the issue of no instruments that drew me the most criticism.

 

[Malachi4U]

Never turn CoC, JW’s, Mormons, SDA’s, or other Protestants away from your door. Invite them in. If you’re not ready to talk with them just invite them back at a later time and let them know you’ll ask one or two friends to come over too so they can learn of their sects as well. Of course, you’re going to ask one or two good Catholic apologists over and have some time to bone up on your points. They don’t need to know it’s an ‘ambush’, after all, they tried to ‘ambush’ you at home.

Try to arrange at least three visits by whatever sect you’re inviting in. Allways schedule their visits so you are never outnumbered, invite friends over to help you out. In visit one let them speak and you should show great intrest in what they have to say. In visit two tell them about problems you discovered in visit one and ask them to research their errors and come back. In visit three put the ax to their heretical opinions and prove to them the basic Catholic Dogma that shows their sect in error with Scripture etc… You will thus at least plant a seed of Christ’s truth in them that may grow and open their eyes to their errors someday.

But remember, ALL Christians are Christian! Just because a member of a CoC is not Catholic does not make them non-Christian. They may love Jesus just as much as Catholics do, they are just in error on a few points. Show them great respect and love. Allways talk to them with love. They may not come home to Christ’s body, His Catholic Church, but at least they will know Catholics live out the love Christ commanded and are closer to Him then any Protestant can ever be (on earth anyway).