Church of Christ member condemns Catholics Christian Christmas Tradition as Pagan...

  • Thread starter Thread starter flightkid
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

flightkid

Guest
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
 
flightkid said:
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
Click to expand...
goggle in the word CHRISTMAS
 
flightkid said:
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
Click to expand...
Well, first of all, according to the Bible:

Matthew 2:1-2
1 When Jesus therefore was born in Bethlehem of Juda, in the days of king Herod, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem. 2 Saying, Where is he that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to adore himAnd Matthew 2:11
11 And entering into the house, they found the child with Mary his mother, and falling down they adored him; and opening their treasures, they offered him gifts; gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

So, we see that Christ’s birth was celebrated by the wise men. That’s hardly an indication that it’s sinful to celebrate Christmas.

Second of all, by it’s own merits, Christmas cannot be a pagan holiday. If it were a pagan holiday, by definition, a pagan’s birthday would be celebrated. But on Christmas, Christ’s birthday is celebrated. Thus, Christmas cannot be a pagan holiday. It doesn’t matter what was celebrated, by whom and how before it was Christ’s birthday. That’s what it is now.

Thirdly: Does it have pagan origins? Probably. There are pagan origins to almost everything we have today. Wanna know why? because they were here before Christians, and in fact, tried to exterminate Christians. It’s not easy to find a current holiday that doesn’t have pagan origins. Some of the traditions we have today have pagan origins:
Does your friend wear a wedding ring? Because it has pagan origins. Did his wife have bridesmaids at the wedding? That was a pagan custom. Do we even know why we have bridesmaids? All the days of the week are of pagan origin. Holding prayer services is of pagan origin.

One way to eradicate a culture and the customs and beliefs that go along with that culture is to take over its holidays and give them new meaning. Over time those old ways will be forgotten. Over time, the new meaning given is the standard. When Christians grew in number and power, the tables were turned, and they tried to eradicate pagans and their associated culture. They did this by taking over their holidays and customs and giving them new (Christian) meanings.

Some parts of Christmas have a pagan origin. The most important part (celebrating the Birth of Christ) does not.
 
flightkid said:
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
Click to expand...
God forbid you celebrate new years! and your birthday! unimaginable! lol! just kidding. wouldnt be to hurt by this persons views. they take pride in their beliefs, and i think pride ranks alot higher than celebrating a holiday in terms of sin. remember what paul said. let no one judge you on a new moon or sabbath. also one man esteems one day higher than another, the other does not. just because this fundamentalist killjoy cannot enjoy something, dont let it get you down. enjoy yourself.🙂 God bless you and yours.
 
flightkid said:
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
Click to expand...
ooh and i almost forgot. does your friend wear a necktie or wedding band? if so they are practicing pagan rituals. the wedding band comes from the roman culture, and the necktie from french pagan culture, it was a superstition that your throat couldnt be cut if you wore one. may want to point these little facts out to them. i could go on with more, but you get the idea. have some fun with this. see how much they are really ready to give up to get rid of pagan influences…😃
 
Wasn’t the winter solstice or something along those lines celebrated during Dec. by the pagans? I think it was, if I remember correctly. They used to use a tree and decorate it to celebrate.

The church did sorta take this over from them in an attempt to rule out pagan things.

I think this is correct, but I could be wrong. Either way, Church of Christ members are a strange lot. Just ask them next time what they think about musical instruments. hehe…bound to be a long discussion.
 
flightkid said:
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
Click to expand...
The Church did take over a pagan holiday so I believe, but so what? As someone else pointed out wedding rings were a pagan invention. The cross was a Roman invention of torture, although I think the Carthaginians used it before the Romans.

I wouldn’t lose much sleep over these fundamentalists’ claims. I’m reminded of my old Protestant pastor’s comment that “Protestants tell a lot of lies about Catholics and the Catholic Church”. You could try reminding him that lying is a sin, and that the father of all lies is Satan.
 
When did the C of C stop celebrating Christmas? The only time I ever saw one of their services, it was a Christmas service complete with a kids’ song-and-dance routine. If the man you talked with was ICC (the 80’s breakaway), just let it alone.
 
flightkid said:
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
Click to expand...
** I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. **

Just wondering if he did have an answer on when the right time of year Jesus was born?

It’s just a commercial holiday. Sure lot’s of folks make it that way…but for those of us who are Real Christians…(not just Catholics are Real Christians, this includes some of our seperated brother’s and sister’s in other churchs.) We tend to focus on Jesus and His Birth and what it ment to all mankind. So if you’re friend “sees it as a Commerical Holiday” then he missed the boat all together.

Did you ask him when and if he even celebrates Jesus birth at all? And if so how and when? Might be interesting to see what he says…the “right” time of year is, and how and “if” they even celebrate this special birth.

Just my two cents… 🙂
 
some anti-catholics would be surprised of the origins of Xmas.

the latter part of December would be lambing season (giving birth) - an instinctive/natural occurrence for sheep in preparation for spring where there are plenty of vegetation to feed on, so, it would be logical for shepherds to tend to their sheep at night to fend off predators or thieves. Therefore, it is a HUGE possibility that Christ may be born in the latter part of Dec…

however, Anti-Catholics would reason out that Christmas coincides with the pagan celebration “sol Inviticus” (calling of the sun god to overcome the cold winter) which falls on the same month, but if you ask them which would be a more “biblical” account, they would either say summer or spring—but wait!! that also coincides with the pagan midsummer solstice to worship the sun god in all his glory! Christmas may not have been the result of the pagan feast but rather— a coincidence considering the season. Whichever month you might choose Christ’s birth—there’s always a pagan feast to back it because the pagans were also a festive bunch.

Santa Claus?? some pagan deity or character? Zeus in red suit perhaps? - Santa Claus is an erroneous english term for Sinter klaus which is the dutch name for St. Nicholas lived around 400 ad whose feast day is Dec. 6, he is known for donating to the poor, (not limited to children), eventually made his way to become the patron saint of Christmas.

The tree? the evergreen tree represents the tree of life, either found in Calvary or Eden, the Dutch used this to represent the trials faced.-- throughout wither, it may be covered by snow, but when the snow melts, it would still be the same tree, evergreen, eternal and lasting. Same goes with the candles, it melts with the price of its own wax, same as Christ who lights the world but pays at the price of his own body and blood.

The elves, sleigh and reindeer? these portrayals only existed around the 19th century and certainly wasnt part of the original Christmas feast! They first appeared in a certain children’s book but certainly not pagan.

just some tips to help with those hard-headed bashers.👍
 
flightkid said:
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
Click to expand...
Why do you listen to these whackos? Apparently they don’t have any education in Christianity whatsoever. Who cares what they say? If you have the truth, put your head up high and just say “WHATEVER”.
 
I get into it on this board, because it’s fun. But relgious debate with fanatics IRL is as fruitless as it is here, only you have to live with these people - at work, home or play. So, I respond to ridiculous statements like that with either a blank look or by saying, “That’s an interesting opinion.” It stops them cold.
 
Rence said:
Well, first of all, according to the Bible:

Matthew 2:1-2
1 When Jesus therefore was born in Bethlehem of Juda, in the days of king Herod, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem. 2 Saying, Where is he that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to adore himAnd Matthew 2:11
11 And entering into the house, they found the child with Mary his mother, and falling down they adored him; and opening their treasures, they offered him gifts; gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

So, we see that Christ’s birth was celebrated by the wise men. That’s hardly an indication that it’s sinful to celebrate Christmas.

Second of all, by it’s own merits, Christmas cannot be a pagan holiday. If it were a pagan holiday, by definition, a pagan’s birthday would be celebrated. But on Christmas, Christ’s birthday is celebrated. Thus, Christmas cannot be a pagan holiday. It doesn’t matter what was celebrated, by whom and how before it was Christ’s birthday. That’s what it is now.

Thirdly: Does it have pagan origins? Probably. There are pagan origins to almost everything we have today. Wanna know why? because they were here before Christians, and in fact, tried to exterminate Christians. It’s not easy to find a current holiday that doesn’t have pagan origins. Some of the traditions we have today have pagan origins:
Does your friend wear a wedding ring? Because it has pagan origins. Did his wife have bridesmaids at the wedding? That was a pagan custom. Do we even know why we have bridesmaids? All the days of the week are of pagan origin. Holding prayer services is of pagan origin.

One way to eradicate a culture and the customs and beliefs that go along with that culture is to take over its holidays and give them new meaning. Over time those old ways will be forgotten. Over time, the new meaning given is the standard. When Christians grew in number and power, the tables were turned, and they tried to eradicate pagans and their associated culture. They did this by taking over their holidays and customs and giving them new (Christian) meanings.

Some parts of Christmas have a pagan origin. The most important part (celebrating the Birth of Christ) does not.
Click to expand...
I have heard and I do not know if is true that the Church of Christ is a cult,does any one know about this church
 
The day Yeshua’s birth is celebrated is absolutely of no importance either way.

Virtually all widespread so called Pagan customs entered the Church in the last couple hundred years. And of these the only custom that has moral implications is the Santa Clause custom.

The rest of the customs do however present a stumbling block for conversion. That is why we must purge things like the Christmas tree, etc from our annual customs.
 
I would also like to make mention of Paul’s teachings. He specifically says to not make issue over Sabbaths, festivals, new moons.

So celebrate christmas or don’t celebrate it. Don’t make issue over such vein things. Do not lie to children about santa. If Christmas tree’s are a stumbling block for peoples conversion then they have to go.
 
flightkid said:
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
Click to expand...
It reminds me of a Muslim I happened to wish on 1st, Happy New Year. He got angry on me saying its not his new year. So I apologized and than asked him what the date was, and he said it was 1st. I asked him if that is the arabic date from the arabic calender? Cause he had no idea what the date was at all.

We come across such people in different areas. It does not matter when Jesus’s birthday is, as long as we remember why He came on this earth, leaving his heavenly paradise to live like us humans and finally die a Horrible death to save us and bring us closer to God.
 
flightkid said:
Hi,

I recently had a discussion with a Church of Christ member and wished him a Merry X-Mas. When I did they he came back to me saying" Christians the world over, just like I, do not celebrate pagan rituals that wrongly ascribe Jesus birth in the wrong time of year with a holiday tradition that is not biblical. Thus Christmas is just another commercial holiday, time I can spend with family like we did this year in Orlando"

He basically condenmed Christmas and called it a pagan holiday that the Catholic Church invented in 400 ad or somewhere around there. I know that Christs birth is not exact, but he told me that Catholics made Christmas in the early Church history to convert pagans.

I think he is a little radical and of course he told me “these traditions of men or satanic and demonic.” I was greatly hurt and could not understand this. Can someone give me history and on Christmas and respond to his claims with facts? Thanks and happy new year!
Click to expand...
flightkid,

This is a very good question. It is one that I struggle with, though I do not see it as a “Catholic” issue, as your Church of Christ friend claims.

I have studied the origins of Christmas, Easter, etc. Most of our practices are rooted in early pagan practices. Yet, as some have already pointed out, it is difficult to abandon all things pagan, since so many of our everyday traditions have pagan origins.

I do not want to offend our Lord with pagan practices. At the same time, I can understand the viewpoint that Christians took pagan practices and replaced their meaning with a holy one. It is interesting that Christmas trees were not well received by Christians in our early American history.

It’s a tough issue, and seems to stir up very heated debates. For the past two years, I have not put up a Christmas tree or decorated with greenery or wreaths, trying to put aside things that have such a clear pagan origin.

This year, I really missed the Christmas tree–probably because so many family memories of Christmas, involve all the decorations. And most of my life, I have associated these things with the celebration of the birth of our Lord.

On the other hand, there are anti-Christian groups who use the pagan origins of our celebration in their claims that the story of Christ is simply another version of past pagan myths. So, in that respect, we could cause some to “stumble,” because the date of Christmas and many of our Christmas practices are rooted in paganism.

So, I really have mixed feelings about the issue.

One thing you might want to tell your friend, is that Martin Luther is believed to have played a role in adding lights to the Christmas tree. In fact most of our Christmas tree traditions came from Germany. So, I would not say this is a Catholic vs. Protestant issue.

There are some interesting articles on the history of Christmas at history.com.

This is a link to “Evergreen Traditions”: history.com/content/christmas/christmas-trees/evergreen-traditions

Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
flightkid,

This is a very good question. It is one that I struggle with, though I do not see it as a “Catholic” issue, as your Church of Christ friend claims.

I have studied the origins of Christmas, Easter, etc. Most of our practices are rooted in early pagan practices. Yet, as some have already pointed out, it is difficult to abandon all things pagan, since so many of our everyday traditions have pagan origins.

I do not want to offend our Lord with pagan practices. At the same time, I can understand the viewpoint that Christians took pagan practices and replaced their meaning with a holy one. It is interesting that Christmas trees were not well received by Christians in our early American history.

It’s a tough issue, and seems to stir up very heated debates. For the past two years, I have not put up a Christmas tree or decorated with greenery or wreaths, trying to put aside things that have such a clear pagan origin.

This year, I really missed the Christmas tree–probably because so many family memories of Christmas, involve all the decorations. And most of my life, I have associated these things with the celebration of the birth of our Lord.

On the other hand, there are anti-Christian groups who use the pagan origins of our celebration in their claims that the story of Christ is simply another version of past pagan myths. So, in that respect, we could cause some to “stumble,” because the date of Christmas and many of our Christmas practices are rooted in paganism.

So, I really have mixed feelings about the issue.

One thing you might want to tell your friend, is that Martin Luther is believed to have played a role in adding lights to the Christmas tree. In fact most of our Christmas tree traditions came from Germany. So, I would not say this is a Catholic vs. Protestant issue.

There are some interesting articles on the history of Christmas at history.com.

This is a link to “Evergreen Traditions”: history.com/content/christmas/christmas-trees/evergreen-traditions

Anna
Click to expand...
HAPPY NEW YEAR ANNA!🙂 yes you too can recover from the fundamentalist mindset and enjoy life as i have learned to do. there is alot more freedom in the traditions of the Church and the Scriptures that you have yet to tap. i keep praying for you. enjoy the holiday season. if anything. bake a cake for Jesus. i have protestant friends that do!🙂 just dont let anyone rob you of your joy in your Creator. for goodness sake, attend a bingo game. thats fun! life is a gift and meant to be enjoyed within the boundaries set up by the Creator and his Church. and unlike these fundamentalist sects, the true Church does not stifle individual growth or enjoyment. God bless you and yours. :hug1: let the past go and enjoy life.
 
benidict said:
HAPPY NEW YEAR ANNA!🙂 yes you too can recover from the fundamentalist mindset and enjoy life as i have learned to do. there is alot more freedom in the traditions of the Church and the Scriptures that you have yet to tap. i keep praying for you. enjoy the holiday season. if anything. bake a cake for Jesus. i have protestant friends that do!🙂 just dont let anyone rob you of your joy in your Creator. for goodness sake, attend a bingo game. thats fun! life is a gift and meant to be enjoyed within the boundaries set up by the Creator and his Church. and unlike these fundamentalist sects, the true Church does not stifle individual growth or enjoyment. God bless you and yours. :hug1: let the past go and enjoy life.
Click to expand...
Benidict,

It is so nice to find your very cheerful response. I’m not sure I’m ready for bingo 😉 but I will find something fun to do.

God bless you and yours, as well, 🙂
Anna
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top