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Bill_Pick
Guest
I need to ask a question and I hope Im not off tread,Are the church of Christ a cult,does any one here know if it is or not,just looking for a answer,not looking for debate.
Church of Christ member condemns Catholics Christian Christmas Tradition as Pagan...
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Anna_Scott
Guest
Hi Bill,
I really don’t know much about the Church of Christ. Maybe someone else could help.
Happy New Year, Bill,
Anna
P.S. Any thoughts on the Christmas tree issue?
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jpk1313
Guest
If it is so pagan why does it focus on the son of god jesus christ? when it comes to people like this I just tell them its all about jesus and if they still refuse to listen well I just assume they are to set in their false belifes to bother debating them and just ignore them and their worthless opinions. I’ve met a few people like this like one street preacher who thought when i told her about 10 people reciving Jesus as lord and savior at a free concert put on by a local gosple rapper fresh i.e. (check out his video cyrstal on youtube) that becuse they heard rap music they were going to hell and could never hear the good news from any kind of music. people like this are all over the place and are generly not the people who should be explaning the christian faith to others sinse they know so little of what the claim to belive and should be just plain old ignored if the refuse to learn the truth about the gosple.
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dianaiad
Guest
I’m going to delete the rest of your post…just for space, so that I can deal with this issue only.
Symbols mean what the people using them think they mean–the symbol isn’t the thing. That’s what causes Protestants and others trouble when they start accusing Catholics of 'worshipping statues." They can’t seem to figure out that the statue of Mary is not Mary herself–and that reverence given to a statue is not given to the statue, but rather the person represented by that statue; the statue is an aid to concentration and a prompt to the proper spirit.
I understand that, at least. It seems to me that people who worry about symbols that used to be pagan are missing the point. They aren’t pagan NOW, and those Christians who use them do not see any pagan meaning in them. How many people know what the holly, the ivy, the evergreen and presents meant to the pagans who gave these symbols to us? If they don’t know what those meanings were, then does it MATTER what those meanings were? Mankind has been on the planet for a very long time. There are an incredible number of theistic systems out there, and something tells me that pretty much everything we can see, touch or hear has been used as a ‘pagan symbol’ of something at some time.
I doubt that God cares.
What He cares about is what WE use them for, and what WE think when we are using them. Now I happen to think that Jesus was born in April sometime. That doesn’t mean that celebrating His birth in December is a bad idea. In fact, I think it is a glorious idea. It means I get to celebrate twice. Who can possibly argue with that?
Diana
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Teneas
Guest
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
From what I know of them, and I have had some dealings with them in the past, they are as severe a Protestant group as you can get. They are pretty out there. Now, that being said, I won’t call many things a cult, even if I would personally, I would never do so here.
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dianaiad
Guest
Yeah, calling a belief system a ‘cult’ is pretty useless. Nobody knows exactly what that is, y’know?
It’s a matter of perception rather than anything else–you know how it goes:
My beliefs are gospel and truth
Your beliefs are strange but acceptable
He belongs to a cult.
(shrug) It all depends upon who is standing where. Of course, in one sense we are ALL cultists, who actually believe in a deity. In another sense…nah. Any other sense is always a perjorative that simply means 'not me."
Diana
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adelore
Guest
So am I taking what you wrote correctly?
That the day Our Lord was born is not to be celebrated at all?
When you say we need to pure things like the Christmas Tree, etc. from our annual customs, Are you saying we need to stop putting up trees and what?
I wasn’t sure how you ment your post, so just thought I’d ask.
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TheosisM
Guest
There are a number of groups calling themselves “Church of Christ”. I think the OP is referring to the “Churches of Christ”, which is a restorationist group descending from the Stone-Campbell movement. They claim that there was a loss of the pure, primitive Christianity, and claim to restore it.
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adelore
Guest
Let’s talk a minute about Pagan Customs. As other’s have pointed out there are many “things” brought to us by way of Pagan’s. Yet today we don’t think twice about them.
Why is that?
Answer: Because we Don’t worship a False God.
If we were to get rid of everything that had “Pagan” starts or were “invented or used” by Pagans first, then by all means “Pack it up and head to the Caves.” And by the way, don’t lite a fire while in that Cave, because Pagans use to “Worship” Fire.
So stop cooking, gas stoves have a fire, go to your furnace if it’s gas, and turn it off. Because this is a Fire and Pagans worshiped Fire. See what I mean? So are you going to turn off the furnace? Of course your not, because your not worshiping that Fire.
Why is it that some People are so worried about the Pagan “Roots” of things around Christmas and Easter, yet in their everday life, the things they use are ok to have “Pagan Roots.” This makes no sense. What matters is what do you think or do with that object, do you really think God can’t see into your heart and know You’re intentions?
How many people here “Worship” the Chirstmas Tree? Or do you even know anyone who ever has? Do you know anyone who has ever Worshiped the Christmas Wreath? And of course the list goes on.
If you are going to Avoid Pagan Roots and things that were first started by Pagans, then don’t just do it at Christmas and Easter, because someone pointed out the Root of things to you around the Holidays.
A person can’t say it’s ok to use some Pagan things every other day of the year, but not on Holidays. If some “Religious” (I’m not pointing fingers at anyone) type Person or Group, is saying that using Pagan things is wrong, then a person like that has to** get rid of All **and not use Any Pagan things or else, That would be being a hypocrite.
Hypocrisy: the professing of publicly approved qualities, beliefs, or feelings that one does not really possess.
Hypocrite: a person who practices hypocrisy.
Why is that?
Answer: Because we Don’t worship a False God.
If we were to get rid of everything that had “Pagan” starts or were “invented or used” by Pagans first, then by all means “Pack it up and head to the Caves.” And by the way, don’t lite a fire while in that Cave, because Pagans use to “Worship” Fire.
So stop cooking, gas stoves have a fire, go to your furnace if it’s gas, and turn it off. Because this is a Fire and Pagans worshiped Fire. See what I mean? So are you going to turn off the furnace? Of course your not, because your not worshiping that Fire.
Why is it that some People are so worried about the Pagan “Roots” of things around Christmas and Easter, yet in their everday life, the things they use are ok to have “Pagan Roots.” This makes no sense. What matters is what do you think or do with that object, do you really think God can’t see into your heart and know You’re intentions?
How many people here “Worship” the Chirstmas Tree? Or do you even know anyone who ever has? Do you know anyone who has ever Worshiped the Christmas Wreath? And of course the list goes on.
If you are going to Avoid Pagan Roots and things that were first started by Pagans, then don’t just do it at Christmas and Easter, because someone pointed out the Root of things to you around the Holidays.
A person can’t say it’s ok to use some Pagan things every other day of the year, but not on Holidays. If some “Religious” (I’m not pointing fingers at anyone) type Person or Group, is saying that using Pagan things is wrong, then a person like that has to** get rid of All **and not use Any Pagan things or else, That would be being a hypocrite.
Hypocrisy: the professing of publicly approved qualities, beliefs, or feelings that one does not really possess.
Hypocrite: a person who practices hypocrisy.
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adelore
Guest
Anna,
I too went through a couple years of not putting up a Christmas Tree or decorating the house. I missed it very much and the family memories of Christmas. Because like you, I too associated these things with the celebration of the birth of Our Lord. (This was during a time when I was away from the Catholic Church and I was studing with “other religions” of who felt All Holidays were of Pagan Roots, so they celebrated No Holidays at all.)
So my comments here are not to “change your mind” but to let you know how I felt during this time in my life. Chances are you will relate to some of what I’m going to say.
First at Christmas and Easter Time, I felt sad, because of my upbringing, (Catholic) these days were very much celebrated and I missed the love and adoration of this time of the year. The “Religion” I was studing with thought all days were the same, none special. So the birth of Our Lord, the fact that He was Risen, was never studied upon, or glorified. They felt everyday should be a “reflection”.
They taught that the Pagan things of these Holidays were sinful, so not wanting to offend God, I too started to stay away from all Holiday “things”. It was sad, but I kept trying to have a “stiff” upper lip, saying to myself, I am pleasing God by staying away from these Pagan started things. Notice I said “Stiff Upper Lip”. I found myself over time becomming a Unhappy Christian, the light, so to speak, was growing dim. There was no happiness, as these people taught, no Holidays, no birthdays, no nothing. (and no this wasn’t a JW Religion, but a Religion that taught Pagan things were bad.)
As I kept doing Research on Pagan things and the Roots of them. (this took a couple of years and a lot of $$ spent on books) I soon found that most/ or a lot of our everday life things has Pagan Roots in them or were created by Pagans. So I started to question on why it was Ok to use Pagan Rooted things everyday, for after all, if they were teaching me that Pagan Rooted things were bad and unpleasing to God, then Pagan Rooted things should be Bad Daily.
Yet, their answer was**…it wasn’t during the Holidays (Christmas and Easter) and that God can see into our hearts and knows our intentions towards these Pagan Rooted things and because we didn’t use them like the Pagans did, back then (the Pagans worshiped some of these things back then or they were used in Pagan type worship service to a false god) it was ok for us to use them now. ** I accepted that answer for awhile. And then the :newidea::newidea: lightbulb click on for me.
Please re-read the Bold of what I wrote again. I then started to question, if Pagan Rooted things are bad during the Holidays, then why not during the normal every day, days of the year. Of course their answer again to me was… It is with the **Intentions **I use these things, for God can see into my heart that I am not using these things as the Pagans did.
Then I asked the question, Well can’t God see into my heart my intentions during the Holidays and know I’m not using these things like the Pagans did? If I wanted to put up a Christmas Tree, give Christmas Gifts, ect. Talk about a Hornets Nest Reaction I started by asking such a Question. Yet no one could give me a straight answer why it’s ok to use Pagan Rooted things, any other day’s of the year. They did everything but answer it.
When I asked why they limited Gods ability to see into my heart and my intentions some days of the year and not others…well let’s just say…I got the ole boot from them…and Thank God I did.
For the God I (like others) serve, can see into my heart everday of the year and knows my intentions of How and Why and What I do with the Pagan Rooted things in my life Everyday and at Holidays. He is not limited.
Again, I am not trying to change your mind, I just wanted to share my experience with you.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Pagans can celebrate their themes and seasons any time they want.
The Lord did not tell us His birthday. We can arbitrate a date…and the dark December has a beautiful setting for the coming of the Lord…and His Spirit comes the same south of the Equator …
The Lord did not tell us His birthday. We can arbitrate a date…and the dark December has a beautiful setting for the coming of the Lord…and His Spirit comes the same south of the Equator …
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jgajmom
Guest
I grew up in the Church of Christ and I can tell you that, yes, most of us do celebrate Christmas, but they don’t take it very seriously. Here is what I was taught. It’s not the actual birth date of Jesus. It’s ok to say yeah it’s when people celebrate the birth, but it’s not important to have it be of so much importance. They also believe that celebrating anything in that manner is kind of idolatry. I’m questioning my faith right now in my life.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
The earliest Christians, being Levantines, Greeks and Romans, undoubtedly wore the robes of their times and places. Pants are an accretion from the pagan Germanic barbarians. So I guess C of C men really ought to be wearing skirts. 
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Teneas
Guest
Can you post some of their beliefs here? I would really like to know more about them. I have spoken with a few throughout the years, and done some research, but don’t honestly know much about them. Me saying that I know exactly what they believe would be like someone here that isn’t Catholic, and understands our belief, saying all kinds of things that aren’t true about us.
Perhaps I should ask these:
- How many sects of the Church of Christ are there?
- How many of those sects don’t use instruments in worship?
- Do all sects believe that the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity?
- Do they even believe in the Trinity?
- They believe in Sola Scriptura, but what Bible do they use?
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jgajmom
Guest
- How many sects of the Church of Christ are there? If you ask my dad, thereis only one church. No sects. Everything else is a denomination. There is a group called the united church of Christ, but it is vastly different.
- How many of those sects don’t use instruments in worship?A true church of christ does not use instrumental music. Refering to the verse that talks about plucking the strings of your heart. Since the bible does not say specifically to use music or not, they do not.
- Do all sects believe that the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity?Yes, I was taught that the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity.
- Do they even believe in the Trinity?Yes, but I don’t think it gets the same attention (I think that’s the word I am looking for)
- They believe in Sola Scriptura, but what Bible do they use?We use a plain Bible. They do not include the Apocrypha though.
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Anna_Scott
Guest
adelore,
I really appreciate your comments, especially knowing that you went through a similar period of questioning the celebration of these holidays. As I said, this year I really missed the Christmas tree and decorations. I did, also, feel very sad.
As you and others have pointed out, it is really impossible to eliminate all things pagan, since pagan influences are everywhere.
My questioning of these holidays did not start with any religious group. I was studying the history of Judaism, Christianity, other religions, and the history of paganism. There was a book written by Gnostics, that I found very disturbing. It was a difficult book to get through, mainly because the Gnostic beliefs are so offensive to our Lord. The authors gave a list of all the similarities between Christ and the myths of pagan gods. Dec. 25th was on the list and other things as well.
So, I began to study the history of Christmas, Easter, etc. That’s when I learned of the pagan origins of many of our Christian celebrations. When I did research online, I found Christian groups who do not celebrate Christmas, etc. I was actually rather surprised.
I have also had some rather scary experiences with objects I had in my house. I won’t go into all the details. It’s a long story.
Also, I worked, several years, with Satanic cult survivors–objects and symbols were vital to them. Another long, scary story.
Anyway, I’m still not sure where I stand on this. There are many things to consider. I have found that many Christians criticize those who choose to eliminate the pagan elements in Christmas and Easter. I do think we should respect one another, regardless of our position on the issue.
Again, I appreciate your response.
Anna
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Teneas
Guest
Come on over to Catholicism! We would love to have another believer!
Edit: and thanks for the response.
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Teneas
Guest
In the end, at least about this subject, isn’t it what you make out of it? If you put up a tree, and celebrate Christ’s birthday on this day, then will putting up that tree and those lights actually be something against Christ?
I highly highly doubt that Christ/God is going to condemn you in any form or capacity for celebrating his birth, and bringing joy into your hearts. The simple joy that comes from a child’s smile upon seeing the tree, can not be against Christ’s wishes. I just refuse to believe that it would offend him.
Christ commented a few times, didn’t look up the scriptures, that if our faith were like those of children, we would be better for it.
Just a thought, with love of course,
Ten
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Anna_Scott
Guest
jgajmom,
Welcome to the forums!
I see you listed your religion as “Protestant confused.” I listed mine as “Former Baptist, now Disenchanted Protestant.” I actually had a brief membership in the Mormon church. When I discovered what they really believe, I couldn’t get away fast enough. I went back to the Baptist church, because it was familiar (the religion of my upbringing.) I am definitely not Baptist–many doctrines I consider to be false.
So, my Christian journey as not been an easy one; and it would be difficult for me to join another church at this point. My experiences with organized religion have been rocky to say the least.
There are many great people here at CAF from many different religious backgrounds. I have said many times, these forums are a lifeline for me in so many ways. I keep studying and praying. I think I am going to visit the Episcopal Church that is near my home; but no plans to join anything. It’s rather sad, really. I do speak openly about my own struggles. Sometimes that comes back to bite me; but mostly, I hear very encouraging words from forum members, and have been given great resources to study.
Well, that was the long way of saying, I think you will really like it here.
Anna
P.S. I updated my religious designation.
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Anna_Scott
Guest
Teneas,
You make a good point. Actually, this year, I was actually wondering what I would do when grandchildren come along, and I have no tree.
Anna
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