Church of England faces exodus over women bishop reforms

[Chellow]

The church of England faces a mass exodus of priests and worshippers after plans were approved to allow women to become bishops without protection for traditionalists.

At a confidential meeting, bishops narrowly voted to proceed with the historic reforms and to resist pressure to create separate dioceses free of women clergy.

The decision will dismay hundreds of priests who could defect to the Roman Catholic Church, which refuses to ordain women. It was taken at a meeting of about 50 members of the House of Bishops, at a hotel in Market Bosworth, Leicestershire, last week, and has set the stage for a showdown with traditionalists when the General Synod, the Church’s parliament, is next convened, in July…More Telegraph.co.uk

 

[CreosMary]

Their Loss is our and Christ’s gain
Alleluia

 

[Katzzzz]

The church of England faces a mass exodus of priests and worshippers after plans were approved to allow women to become bishops without protection for traditionalists.

At a confidential meeting, bishops narrowly voted to proceed with the historic reforms and to resist pressure to create separate dioceses free of women clergy.

The decision will dismay hundreds of priests who could defect to the Roman Catholic Church, which refuses to ordain women. It was taken at a meeting of about 50 members of the House of Bishops, at a hotel in Market Bosworth, Leicestershire, last week, and has set the stage for a showdown with traditionalists when the General Synod, the Church’s parliament, is next convened, in July…More Telegraph.co.uk

***Women are just as capable as men to be priests. Enough with this patriarchal society! That they would leave their church over this issue is just ridiculous!!! ***

 

[joeybaggz]

***Women are just as capable as men to be priests. Enough with this patriarchal society! That they would leave their church over this issue is just ridiculous!!! ***

Ritz crackers and Pepsi Cola are just as capable as being made into the body and blood of Jesus Christ as are unleavend bread and wine. All sacraments have a proper form and women are not priests because the form of the sacrament as set forth by Christ is a male only clergy. Jesus had his reasons.

By the way, if you want to see the results of a matriarchal society, just go to the central hospital in any major city and check out the morgue slabs. They are a neverending conveyor belt loaded with the bodies of young men who have been raised in homes with no father. Lack of male role models and authority figures has been destroying the inner city (and families everywhere) for decades and no one wants to do anymore than throw money at the problem and then pretend that it solves something. Well, liberals anyway.

I know that feminism is the stylish way to go in today’s society. Problem is, the church doesn’t see things your way ,… as do many societies. Introduce women priests to the Church in countries like Africa, South America, and you’d probably see men leave in droves and take their families with them. Break the church in half, probably. Heck of a price to pay for being stylish, wouldn’t you say? Remember, the Catholic Church is something bigger than the good ole, God Bless America, USA.

Men, and fathers, have a divinely ordered place in society. God instituted mankind with that in mind. The church, and society in general, needs men to step up and take their rightful place as God ordered man and woman, and society in general. Now of course if you wanted to discuss how men have, in so many instances, backslid into moral and emotional hyenas over the last several decades, well, that would be a different thread, but it might be worth it. Of course, I’d argue that that condition is a by product of the feminist movement … and especially the birth control pill. But I digress…

Being Catholic demands a dose of intellectual and personal humility. Humility is a necessary ingredient in obedience. Then again, from my experience, I think the concept of obedience to authority for a liberal is a bit like a bright sunny day is for a vampire.

My two cents

 

[Katzzzz]

Ritz crackers and Pepsi Cola are just as capable as being made into the body and blood of Jesus Christ as are unleavend bread and wine. All sacraments have a proper form and women are not priests because the form of the sacrament as set forth by Christ is a male only clergy. Jesus had his reasons.
No, I don’t believe Jesus was a bigot. The bible was written by MEN and I’m sure all references to women who did apostolic work for Jesus was not included.

By the way, if you want to see the results of a matriarchal society, just go to the central hospital in any major city and check out the morgue slabs. They are a neverending conveyor belt loaded with the bodies of young men who have been raised in homes with no father. Lack of male role models and authority figures has been destroying the inner city (and families everywhere) for decades and no one wants to do anymore than throw money at the problem and then pretend that it solves something. Well, liberals anyway.
By the way, if you want to see the effects of a patriarchal society, talk to the millions of abused women in the world, rape victims and those who have been murdered by serial murderers - almost all men!

I know that feminism is the stylish way to go in today’s society. Problem is, the church doesn’t see things your way ,… as do many societies. Introduce women priests to the Church in countries like Africa, South America, and you’d probably see men leave in droves and take their families with them. Break the church in half, probably. Heck of a price to pay for being stylish, wouldn’t you say? Remember, the Catholic Church is something bigger than the good ole, God Bless America, USA.
I think this is a matter of men not wanting to share authority with women. God forbid they recognize that women are of equal intelligence and capability. This has nothing to do with “Style” - and the countries you mentioned are very patriarchal - if they left the Church, then their faith would not be very strong to begin with either - much like the Anglican (Church of England) members who are leaving their Church.

Men, and fathers, have a divinely ordered place in society. God instituted mankind with that in mind. The church, and society in general, needs men to step up and take their rightful place as God ordered man and woman, and society in general. Now of course if you wanted to discuss how men have, in so many instances, backslid into moral and emotional hyenas over the last several decades, well, that would be a different thread, but it might be worth it. Of course, I’d argue that that condition is a by product of the feminist movement … and especially the birth control pill. But I digress…
Oh yes, that nasty feminist movement. I think men are going to have to just deal with that!

Being Catholic demands a dose of intellectual and personal humility. Humility is a necessary ingredient in obedience. Then again, from my experience, I think the concept of obedience to authority for a liberal is a bit like a bright sunny day is for a vampire.
I agree, being Catholic demands a dose of intellectual and personal humility. So therefore, if the Church does get around to ordaining women, I suggest you humble yourself to accept that teaching. It will eventually happen!

My two cents

I would say that was the right price

 

[joeybaggz]

Best two cents I’ve ever spent. Always wanted to know what the NOW handbook said about the Catholic male clergy.

 

[Katzzzz]

Best two cents I’ve ever spent. Always wanted to know what the NOW handbook said about the Catholic male clergy.

If you are referring to NOW as in the National Organization of Women, I wouldn’t know - that is a pro-choice organization which is something I would not associate with

 

[joeybaggz]

If you are referring to NOW as in the National Organization of Women, I wouldn’t know - that is a pro-choice organization which is something I would not associate with

Edifying. A liberal who isn’t pro-choice. But then, if push came to shove…

Really though, what is it about being a priest that’s so compelling to your crowd? Is a woman going to a Mass said by another woman akin to a woman going to a female gynecologist? Something that is more comfortable? Or is it that desire to be the center of attention that is common to all shrill and vocal feminists? Really, admit it, that lust to consecrate or hear all those juicy bits of scandal and intrigue in the confessional is just a desire to satisfy the “dig me” nature of the liberal feminist mindset… Or, maybe it’s a compulsion to wear black and be called “Father” … oops sorry, Mother. I don’t know… tell me Katzz

Admit it, being a priest is nothing more than an ego thing for the left wing liberal feminist crowd, isn’t it?

I mean a priest is a servant of God. The pope is called the "servant to the servants of God. Somehow I think the servant thing isn’t operative for your crowd. After all, if your desire is to serve, nuns who are the most wonderfully humble of servants have been around for centuries. Want to instruct the ignorant, become a nun. Want to nurse and heal the sick, become a nun. Want to counsel the ignorant, console the dying, clothe the naked, WANT TO SERVE the Lord, become a nun.

Face it, that liberal feminist desire to become a priest is a desire to serve only one person’s ego.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

***Women are just as capable as men to be priests. Enough with this patriarchal society! That they would leave their church over this issue is just ridiculous!!! ***

You realize, of course, that in saying that, you defy the teaching of the Magisterium, and mark yourself as wanting to be separated from the Church? Quite apart, as has been noted, from the fact that capability has nothing whatever to do with the question.

Just wondering if that’s what you’re proud of.

In general, Catholics have to be somewhat careful about how they react to what Anglicans do with their orders. Those orders are, after all, null and void. In the end, there is no difference between the validity of a claim to valid orders made by an Anglican man or an Anglican woman. Neither has any from the get-go.

A word of caution to the Anglican leavers. They had best realize that although the Church would welcome them, it would welcome them as protestant converts, and not as she would those returning from a schism. Many Anglicans I’ve met are a bit confused on that point.

 

[GladCatholic]

*** agree, being Catholic demands a dose of intellectual and personal humility. So therefore, if the Church does get around to ordaining women, I suggest you humble yourself to accept that teaching. It will eventually happen***!

No, it won’t happen. usccb.org/comm/archives/1998/98-210a.shtml

"# What is the Catholic Church’s teaching on priestly ordination concerning women?

In the apostolic letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Pope John Paul II reaffirmed that the Catholic Church has no authority to confer priestly ordination on women. This teaching is to be held definitively by all the faithful as belonging to the deposit of faith. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith clarified the authority of this teaching by stating that it is founded on the written Word of God, has been constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, and has been set forth infallibly by the universal ordinary magisterium." (emphasis mine).

Why can people just not accept that women priests will never happen–it is impossible.

Glad

 

[estesbob]

If you are referring to NOW as in the National Organization of Women, I wouldn’t know - that is a pro-choice organization which is something I would not associate with

Having read you posts and noted your compete rejection of the authortiy of and the teachings of the Church i would guess that your version of “liberal Catholic” is non-catholic.

 

[Johndigger]

So, you believe that the Holy Spirit did not write the bible because men were somehow able to “elimate” women’s roles?

You believe that the Holy Spirit does not guide the Catholic Church?

You believe that you know more than the Pope and 2,000 years of Church tradition?

Heresy is nothing to be proud of.

In the love of Christ the King,

JD

 

[Katzzzz]

Edifying. A liberal who isn’t pro-choice. But then, if push came to shove…
Please don’t presume to know what I REALLY think. Push come to shove NOTHING - I am 100% prolife!

Really though, what is it about being a priest that’s so compelling to your crowd?
***My Crowd???***Is a woman going to a Mass said by another woman akin to a woman going to a female gynecologist? Something that is more comfortable? Or is it that desire to be the center of attention that is common to all shrill and vocal feminists? Really, admit it, that lust to consecrate or hear all those juicy bits of scandal and intrigue in the confessional is just a desire to satisfy the “dig me” nature of the liberal feminist mindset… Or, maybe it’s a compulsion to wear black and be called “Father” … oops sorry, Mother. I don’t know… tell me Katzz
***Well is that why6 a man becomes a priest - to hear all of those juicy bits of scandal and intrigue in the confessional? Are you serious? Really, your hatred for women is almost palpable! Both men and women are capable of carrying out the duties of the priesthood therefore, I believe both genders should be given the opportunity. I think you should talk to a priest about your problem in dealing with the opposite gender. ***

Admit it, being a priest is nothing more than an ego thing for the left wing liberal feminist crowd, isn’t it?
Do you honestly think that women just want to be the “center of attention” - they crave the authority of the priesthood? You think if that is what they wanted, they could not get that elsewhere?

I mean a priest is a servant of God. The pope is called the "servant to the servants of God. Somehow I think the servant thing isn’t operative for your crowd. After all, if your desire is to serve, nuns who are the most wonderfully humble of servants have been around for centuries. Want to instruct the ignorant, become a nun. Want to nurse and heal the sick, become a nun. Want to counsel the ignorant, console the dying, clothe the naked, WANT TO SERVE the Lord, become a nun.
If you haven’t noticed, there aren’t too many nuns around anymore. Perhaps that has something to do with them having to take a vow of poverty and diocesan priests not having to do so. Perhaps it’s because they have to live with a bunch of other women, clean the convent, cook their own food, share cars while priests have housekeepers, never cook, never do their own laundry and cleaning. Quite a few discrepancies don’t you think?

Face it, that liberal feminist desire to become a priest is a desire to serve only one person’s ego.

Nonsensical rubbish! You really don’t know how to present a very intelligent argument./I]

 

[James1982]

Disclaimer: I am a male.

There are women who are beyond me in intellect, skill, and poise. As it happens, there are quite a lot of them, in my estimation.

However, that does not equate to women priests.

It is the very concept of our faith that just because we can do something, doesn’t mean God wills it. We know that God has places for each of us because He says so, several times, in the bible (and for Catholics, tradition).

People don’t often keep their family in the way God wants- in which, though each spouse has a different role and different tasks, both are equal in stature and fulfillment- and that gives rise to the injustices that have been fueling feminist thought for many years. That is on the individual person, because IMO that is sinful behavior for a husband to engage in. It is not on the Church, because if males followed God’s law like it was intended to be, there would be perfect harmony in the family and the Church, with everyone using their God-given skills in a way that was pleasing to God, and it would be fulfilling to everyone. As we know, that doesn’t happen. That’s sin that gets in the way of true, God-pleasing gender equality, not God. Women should rightfully make war on sinful behavior that leads to unfulfilling home lives, not blame God for setting up existence as He did.

Feminism among younger women seems to be trending back in some ways to this model… That even though they know they could do any job, many elect to stay at home and raise kids because it is what they feel is the right thing to do. In doing so, while they recognize that they could step outside of a role which they think is right, they elect not to do so because falling out of that moral system would somehow be wrong (and dare I say, sinful).

Men are limited in many ways by God, as are women. It’s the way things were meant to be- God gives us roles in life. When we work within those roles in the way God intended and not selfishly or sinfully, our lives are more fulfilling than if we try to work outside of them. That is the promise of Christ.

 

[Katzzzz]

***Yes, it is very sinful for women to work outside the home instead of working in the home. Actually it’s a sin to some men because then women aren’t under the man’s thumb, don’t have to ask the man for money or take abuse and not have the money to go anywhere. Tough luck! By the way, what’s wrong with men staying home and raising children? Oh yeah, I forgot - they have the be the authority figures right? Or at least that’s what your “crowd” thinks. ***

 

[LDNCatholic]

Their Loss is our and Christ’s gain
Alleluia

Amen!

 

[joeybaggz]

Nonsensical rubbish! You really don’t know how to present a very intelligent argument./I]

Actually, I’m not trying to present an argument, I’m looking for an answer to the question, what is so compelling about becoming a priest to your crowd?

(your crowd - the shrill, self-centered, “my intellect is far superior to the 2000 years of Church tradition guided by the the Holy Spirit”, “it’s not fair,” “I want what I want or I’ll throw a tantrum” bunch.)

I must say, I like the size 18 font blue ink screaming in reply. It is so consistent with the screaming that liberals rely on when at a loss to engage in an informed dialogue. And it effectively disables the ability to highlight all but your last quote in your posts. Good move. Then again, since all of your answers do nothing but reflect your prejudices rather than attempt any logical answer to my points, there’s nothing to really reply to anyway.

So, rather than try to rebut any of your “points”, I’ll pass. I was hoping a self confessed liberal catholic could bring something to the table in any discussion of controversial matters concerning the Catholic faith. Reasoned (name removed by moderator)ut would be an interesting counterpoint to the preponderance of ultra conservative positions usually found here. Unfortunately all you present is personal prejudice disguised as reasoned (name removed by moderator)ut, and personal attacks when all else fails.

Oh, and rereading that … push comes to shove bit … sorry, I meant in a way that wasn’t what you interpreted, and I can see how your interpretation is logical. Sorry if I seemed to be baiting you … my bad

 

[Dragoro]

***Women are just as capable as men to be priests. Enough with this patriarchal society! That they would leave their church over this issue is just ridiculous!!! ***

Nonsense.

 

[lavalamp]

***Yes, it is very sinful for women to work outside the home instead of working in the home. Actually it’s a sin to some men because then women aren’t under the man’s thumb, don’t have to ask the man for money or take abuse and not have the money to go anywhere. Tough luck! By the way, what’s wrong with men staying home and raising children? Oh yeah, I forgot - they have the be the authority figures right? Or at least that’s what your “crowd” thinks. ***

Peace, please!

It is impossible to have a constructive dialog when you venting sarcasm.

Certainly, it is not sinful for women to work or men to care for children, who told you that?

And, while some priests may forget the example of poverty Christ set for them (I’m trying to be charitable), many do, in fact, suffer and sacrifice much for the good of the Church.

I encourage you to look deeply into why the Church teaches that it is impossible for it to ordain women.

And consider this: if you believe that God could have let the Church be in error for 2000 years on this subject (and maybe others you find objectionable), can you really believe that the Church is, in fact the Body of Christ, which the gates of hell will not prevail against? Maybe you should consider Anglicanism.

 

[adrift]

Originally Posted by Katzzzz
Women are just as capable as men to be priests. Enough with this patriarchal society! That they would leave their church over this issue is just ridiculous!!!

There is no reason for you to shout it doesn’t make your argument better. Capable? As defined by Webster

3: having attributes (as physical or mental power) required for performance or accomplishment

Women certainly have the mental power but not the physical. This was ordained by God. So no women are not as capable. The Church may not change this as it does not have the authority to do so.