church pastor says I can't kneel

[Sarabande]

If this is a Catholic Church of the Latin Rite, where we are required to kneel (in the United States and in a number of other countries) from after the Sanctus until after the Great Amen, and the priest wants everyone to stand instead, then he is being disobedient to the Church.

I agree. I do think, though, that the OP should have a discussion with her pastor in case there is a misunderstanding between the two. If it is discovered that the pastor is clearly in the wrong and he wants to continue to be “disobedient”, then other actions should be taken, but if there is just a misunderstanding, then it can definitely be handled between the two.

BTW - Tedster - I’ve always LOVED that quote from “A Man for All Seasons”. I saw that movie in high school and fell in love with it - deep, intellectual, superb acting and an incredible message, especially as a Catholic. (It’s also one of my favorite periods in history to read about.) I never grow tired of it. We even have the Holbein painting of St. Thomas More on our wall.

 

[Tedster]

and for the rest that taken exception to my post (# 3) … I have no problems admitting my wrongs and faults. When you are as wrong as I am as often as I am, it’s fairly easy to do. If this situation is a violation of the GIRM then it needs to be addressed. It seems this maybe one of those times where there is a real problem. But what seems and what is is still unknown. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. But a discussion with the priest should take place first, and if the matter is still unresolved the next in line would be the Bishop, yes?

I did not read your follow up post as I was posting… I agree with you, address the problem with the pastor or his liturgical director first, then proceed to the bishop. I only read your statement that Kendy should “act accordingly with the rest of the community”.

That is the reason for my response. The GIRM is crystal clear on when we are to kneel, stand, sit, etc.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

In the Latin Rite we kneel at certain points of the Mass to worship Jesus Christ’s real presence in the Holy Eucharist. The priest is acting in persona Christi when he consecrates the bread and wine into the real body and blood of Our Lord. If the Priest is telling his congregation not to kneel when the GIRM specifically tells us to, one has to wonder about his commitment to the Church. Is he denying the real presence?

 

[Kendy]

Have you made an appointment to speak to him concerning this? Or has that already happened and that was the opening post here? Speak to him, if that doesn’t resolve the issue speak to the Bishop.

Side bar: Do most of ya all find your pastors difficult to speak with? It seems the vast majority of the issues brought up here in this forum would be easily resolved by just talking to the pastor of the parish.

I doubt he’s going to change his mind.

 

[Kendy]

I agree. I do think, though, that the OP should have a discussion with her pastor in case there is a misunderstanding between the two. If it is discovered that the pastor is clearly in the wrong and he wants to continue to be “disobedient”, then other actions should be taken, but if there is just a misunderstanding, then it can definitely be handled between the two.

BTW - Tedster - I’ve always LOVED that quote from “A Man for All Seasons”. I saw that movie in high school and fell in love with it - deep, intellectual, superb acting and an incredible message, especially as a Catholic. (It’s also one of my favorite periods in history to read about.) I never grow tired of it. We even have the Holbein painting of St. Thomas More on our wall.

Well, he didn’t speak to me personally. He had someone else tell me that I could not a lector if I read because that’s how he wants it done. When I said, I opt not to read, she said, I was being “holier than the parish.” Most people stand because that’s how he wants it done.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

If the Priest is telling his congregation not to kneel when the GIRM specifically tells us to, one has to wonder about his commitment to the Church. Is he denying the real presence?

Oh puh-leeze.

The U.S. specifically got an indult to allow kneeling during the Eucharistic prayer. Are you saying that in all the rest of the world – where standing is the norm – that they deny the Real Presence?

 

[b_justb]

I doubt he’s going to change his mind.

But you’ll never know unless you actually talk to the man. What is there to fear? He puts on his roman collar one neck at a time Just talk to him.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

yes.

Strange. I do not know why his “preference” would be to have standing then. Perhaps, as other posters have suggested, it would be good to talk with him.

 

[kage_ar]

One more in the “talk to him” camp.

 

[Corki]

Oh puh-leeze.

The U.S. specifically got an indult to allow kneeling during the Eucharistic prayer. Are you saying that in all the rest of the world – where standing is the norm – that they deny the Real Presence?

The universal norm is to kneel for the consecration. The only part of this that is particular to the US is to remain kneeling until after the great Amen.

I have not heard of any conference asking for and receiving an indult to stand during the consecration.

 

[Kelly]

Here is the section from the GIRMwith the adaptions for the US:

**Posture of the Faithful
This adaptation will be inserted at number 43, paragraph 2:

They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

This adaptation will be inserted at number 43, paragraph 3:

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.**

The only option that the local bishop has is whether or not people kneel AFTER the Aguns Dei, not during the consecration. The local pastor does not have the authority to change anything in the Mass.

 

[chicago]

Side bar: Do most of ya all find your pastors difficult to speak with? It seems the vast majority of the issues brought up here in this forum would be easily resolved by just talking to the pastor of the parish.

Often the priest knows darn well what he’s doing and just doesn’t want anybody else lording it over his head by telling him what to do. You can try to talk to him about it but you may either get brushed off or talked down to about all the reasons why he thinks his way is better or necessary. Sometimes he just doesn’t know any better, but even there if he is set in his ways… Anyway, most often it isn’t like the person who we would encourage to talk to the priest is the first to approach him about a matter. More likely, he’s heard about these things a dozen (or maybe a few dozen) times and would rather not be bothered.

If one can honestly share one’s personal experience and feelings about matters, making it a pastoral issue rather than one of discipline you may get more sympathy, but it doesn’t mean that you are going to get your way in what is desired.

 

[Like]

Well, he didn’t speak to me personally. He had someone else tell me that I could not a lector if I read because that’s how he wants it done. When I said, I opt not to read, she said, I was being “holier than the parish.” Most people stand because that’s how he wants it done.

Well! That puts a different slant on this issue. All the more reason to speak with your priest.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

The universal norm is to kneel for the consecration. The only part of this that is particular to the US is to remain kneeling until after the great Amen.

I have not heard of any conference asking for and receiving an indult to stand during the consecration.

Here’s the [relevant section from the GIRM:

](http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml#sect1)

1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.

They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.53

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

I see sitting and standing with the exception of the possibility of kneeling after communion except in the United States.

So my question remains: are we the only ones in the world who believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist? That’s what Semper Fi implied.

 

[kage_ar]

The GIRM does add “except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”

Maybe, just maybe, the Priest in question has some other good reason? Meet with him, ask him - give the Ordained Priest the benefit of the doubt.

 

[VociMike]

The GIRM does add “except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”

Yes, such as if the Mass is being held in an open, muddy field.

 

[Corki]

Here’s the [relevant section from the GIRM:

](http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml#sect1)

I see sitting and standing with the exception of the possibility of kneeling after communion except in the United States.

You are quoting the US adaptations. The universal GIRM reads:

The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while
the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant
before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of
Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray,
brethren), before the Prayer over the Offerings until the end of Mass, except at
the places indicated below.
They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the
responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the Homily and while the Preparation
of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may
sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.
But they should kneel at the consecration, except when prevented on occasion
by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some
other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow
when the priest genuflects after the consecration.

 

[Kelly]

Thanks Corki, I knew that this was the case, but I couldn’t find the Universal GIRM. I’ve been to many different masses in Europe, and everyone did kneel during the consecration.

 

[estesbob]

Oh puh-leeze.

The U.S. specifically got an indult to allow kneeling during the Eucharistic prayer. Are you saying that in all the rest of the world – where standing is the norm – that they deny the Real Presence?

We go to Mexico quite a bit. And we always kneel there.

 

[anniemart]

Hi Kendy,
After you decide how you are going to deal with this issue you may want to consider this: there are many parishes in need of readers who are willing to proclaim the Word of God because Our Father has asked them to…

Please don’t let the response of one priest (or of any “spokesperson” rob you of the* gift that you want to return *to the Church. Seek, if possible, another church nearby that you can provide this service for…it won’t require you change parishes and you can always opt for being a “sub” but that would mean a greater committment on your end.

God Bless you and I’m praying the rosary this week for you and that you be able to discern what the Lord would prefer you to do.

Jesus I Trust in You. Jesus I Trust in You. Jesus I Trust in You.