E
Elf01
Guest
I like a society where I don’t need to worry about being shot in Church.
J
JanR
Guest
In a perfect world, we would have that kind of society. In reality, we don’t. Why are we made, in so many instances, to be sitting ducks? Is that fair?childinthefaith:
I like a society where I don’t need to worry about being shot in Church.
Does the 2nd amendment provide for disobeying the Bishop as well as the law?
Last edited:
T
TK421
Guest
That is precisely right, and be grateful that such as a poisonous mentality hasn’t made its way into your culture, because once it becomes embedded for several generations it is extremely difficult to change.
Law-abiding, armed citizens make the entire country less safe, especially the immediate community and immediate people around them. People are more likely to commit suicide (there are many ways to commit suicide, but psychologically, a gun makes it easier to go through with) accidents happen, and people who haven’t broken a law before can end up breaking one in the future and gun culture makes it extremely easy to access one. In Europe, you might have a stabbing where a few people die. In the USA, the body count ends up 5 or 10 times higher.
But all of this common sense stuff is beating water against rock. It will change some people’s minds but it won’t change the mind of somebody who has developed a psychological addiction/dependency on guns that goes back for many years, often to early childhood, and millions of Americans are suffering from this dependency. The OP’s wife is a classic example of this, but many people suffer from the same thing to a more moderate degree.
Last edited:
B
Beryllos
Guest
Ah, yes, we tend to forget the “well regulated” part of the Second Amendment.
Last edited:
C
childinthefaith
Guest
Clearly you’ve missed something. I’m not disobeying the bishop. My local priest and I have an agreement. No need to involve the bishop as neither I nor my pastor are doing anything wrong.
As for the 2nd, I can only suggest you read up on American Revolutionary war history and the forming of our constitution for what it provides. Need I quote it here?
What is kind of sad is, if things were to really go bad, let’s say our electric grid failed for months, it is upon men like me who anti-2A folks would depend for their safety.
When someone calls the police in the middle of the night do they want unarmed LEO’s or armed? So no 2A- you want all the good guys who obey the law and serve it to disarm, and really believe that crime will cease, lethal force not needed, in America?
It is my opinion that if ppl would simply educate themselves on firearms and the genesis of the 2A, we’d not have honest citizens opposing it.
How loudly from the rooftops must it be shouted, “Its not the gun, it’s the guy on the trigger.”?? The “gun problem” in our country is not a gun problem, it is a people problem.
But, if folks desire to sit on masse with zero protection, that is their right and choice. I choose not to take such risks, and I do that within the law.
Thank you.
As for the 2nd, I can only suggest you read up on American Revolutionary war history and the forming of our constitution for what it provides. Need I quote it here?
What is kind of sad is, if things were to really go bad, let’s say our electric grid failed for months, it is upon men like me who anti-2A folks would depend for their safety.
When someone calls the police in the middle of the night do they want unarmed LEO’s or armed? So no 2A- you want all the good guys who obey the law and serve it to disarm, and really believe that crime will cease, lethal force not needed, in America?
It is my opinion that if ppl would simply educate themselves on firearms and the genesis of the 2A, we’d not have honest citizens opposing it.
How loudly from the rooftops must it be shouted, “Its not the gun, it’s the guy on the trigger.”?? The “gun problem” in our country is not a gun problem, it is a people problem.
But, if folks desire to sit on masse with zero protection, that is their right and choice. I choose not to take such risks, and I do that within the law.
Thank you.
R
Rau
Guest
Actually, it’s the US constitution. Which is a shame because that’s exceptionally difficult for the people to amend in the US. Were it a matter of state or federal laws, it seems likely more restrictive laws would be developed.
Not sure if that’s been true in modern democracies, Eg. Canada, UK, France, Belgium, Australia, NZ, etc etc
Last edited:
J
JulianN
Guest
So does that mean you are not carrying at Mass? Your first post said your archbishop has said he would not allow guns to be carried in the church – if he said that, the priest has no authority to override him. The bishop ‘owns’ the church, not the pastor. So if the bishop said no, then you are not only doing something wrong, you are committing a crime.
Last edited:
P
phil19034
Guest
Our Cathedral has hired security guards at mass when the Archbishop is celebrating Mass OR on days like Christmas, Easter, etc.1ke:
These laws need changed because numbers show more people have been killed in church shootings.
Also, I have in the USA the right to defend myself wherever I may be. The Church forbidding me to have the adequate capability to defend myself & wife is arbitrary nonsense IMO. I’ll bet you that if I ignore tge laws, carry anyway, and stopped a shooter coming on to kill innocent worshippers, my opinion would be valued more.
As for my wife, she is correct n doesnt need therapy. I’m armed everywhere we go. I drive her to work n back for crying out loud. Shes used to having me as her armed security and, likely because she knows my quals, feels safe when we go places together.
But, IF I choose to not carry to mass, which by the way is a quite soft target for these mass shooter types, she feels like shes a sitting duck. I would as well. We dont go to movie theaters. We avoid crowded public rooms.
My daughter was within 20 yards of the Dayton shooter not long ago. It’s real stuff folks.
I will not wait for a 911 response of minutes when I can respond in seconds.
As for the law, I’d rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
Now, if ppl are willing to live in a delusional state of “it wont happen to…,” that’s certainly their right.
Rhetoric over here. This sort of law causes unnecessary danger to innocents. Theres 1 way to stop a bad guy with a gun…
I realize this isn’t a political forum n sorry, but this is relevant to our women, children, elderly, disabled in the pews if…
That’s y it matters. I’ve protected innocent lives since age 18 & have no intent of stopping.
I know my territorial parish (in the suburbs) has been working on plans to keep parishenors safe. The pastor hired a security advisor to provide suggestions on how to keep parishioners safer. One of the plans is for all doors to automatically lock from the outside EXCEPT one while mass is in session. People can leave, but entry to the Church after Mass as started would be restricted in order to prevent the most damage. It would also be a door that theoretically security could be placed at (if needed).
Other parishes, only have police officers and other security professionals work as ushers.
Ignoring safety concerns is imprudent. Even the early Church, under the Roman persecution took steps to avoid an untimely death. And guess what, so did Jesus.
Point is: there are ways to discuss this with your pastor to help PREVENT a shooting vs doing nothing.
God bless
C
childinthefaith
Guest
Here I would respectfully say that, if an anti-2A person hates guns soooo very much in America, they’re quite within their rights to expatriate and move.
That said, I come from a very long line of soldiers who were from Appalachia. We have protected, served, and gained freedom since the Revolution, with our own firearms at first. I dont recall any complaints by those who enjoy the freedoms we have bled and died for.
So I’ll hang onto my firearms in case ya all need us again. Enjoy your freedoms, compliments of this US soldier and all my brothers-at-arms past & present.
Oh, and keep sleeping well at night while armed police patrol your street. God forbid an anti-2A person have to ever step up and protect anyone at all. They can dial 911 wait 5+ minutes. I’ll grab my 1911 and legally defend in 3 seconds or less thank ya very much.
R
Rau
Guest
I didn’t read objections to the military or police being armed. Nor did I understand that 2A was necessary to provide for that.
R
Rau
Guest
Do you mean both you and the priest have agreed to defy the bishop?
C
childinthefaith
Guest
I am, at this point, saying nothing and will step out of this thread. I will watch/read, but post no more. Frankly, I’m tired of it. You all consider the things posted and make your own decisions. Obey the law, obey the bishop, I do and will continue. Thats my final answer.
Be safe, watch your 6, and may God bless you all.
Last edited:
R
Rau
Guest
Perhaps the deep embedding of guns in the culture leads to them being seen as proper tools for all kinds of challenges? So those with an axe to grind reach for a gun as a natural thing to do?
Guns are very widely and freely available in the US. Is it so surprising that this would bring many bad consequences?
R
Rau
Guest
Is the “militia” a thing in the modern US? Or did it refer to entities of the day?
J
JulianN
Guest
But you’re the one who started it. I think you’ve made your position clear and frankly, I’m astonished at the number of people on this thread who would no doubt describe themselves as law abiding, but who are completely willing to commit a crime by carrying a gun into a place where they are not allowed.
Last edited:
V
VonDerTann
Guest
When you say “you’re committing a crime bringing a gun where it’s not allowed!”, I’m curious: do you also think that’s true when, say, a concerned citizen with a pistol rushes into a church to shoot a crazed gunman who’s an active shooter? Or are there exceptions? If so, what are those exceptions? Please advise.
J
JulianN
Guest
You’d have to ask the appropriate bishop – he’s the one who can grant exceptions. Or not.
The hypothetical situation you proposed doesn’t change the reality that the law gives the owner of the property the right to determine whether guns are allowed. In the OP’s case, the owner of the property has said they are not, and therefore, it’s a violation of the law to carry a gun on that property.