Church teaching on Islam

[rinnie]

since Christ is fully God , it’s not the same God.

Really? So then if they pray to God the Father the creator of heaven and earth, the God of Abraham, because they do not see that SAME GOD as Jesus Christ, then the God of Abraham is false??

Could you explain this to me. Thanks.

 

[rinnie]

So the God who orders killing of raped female children because they became impure the same God as the Christian God?

You compare with Old Testament. Do you know that there is a New Testament? Do you know that Jesus, on saying farwell said: “I give to you a NEW commandment: love each other as I loved you!”. New Commandment! That is what makes Islam outdated: In 600 after Christ came with an ideology which came from Exodus, 2000 years BEFORE Christ. It is a retrocess in time. Benedictus XVI was right when said that Islam did not bring anything but war and violence.

No, it is not 1 coin with 2 faces. It is 2 coins with 1 face. They say that it is the same God but it is not. As if I called train to a train a to a car and say “train” for the 2 objects. And as I say train when I mention a train and a car, then a train and a car are the same thing. Wrong. The problem is that I am using the same word God for 2 different entities: the Christian God and the Islam god, which is something else, not the true God.

That is a trick.

All ex-communist countries had in their names the word “democratic”. Do you want to understand it better? Democratic People’s Republic of Korea! So, North Korea is democratic!!!

How do you blame God the creator of heaven and earth the Islam God responsible for a false prophet who claims a false teaching.

Did Christ not tell us, many will say did I not preach and teach in your name. etc. And Did Christ not say I DO NOT KNOW YOU.

Christ warned us many false prophets will CLAIM to teach in his name but are liars.

So how does Muhammad trying to deceive with a false doctrine make the God of Abraham false.

I cannot see where you people are getting that Muslims God the God of Abraham is false. because a false prophet CLAIMS to teach in his name.

 

[jam070406]

How do you blame God the creator of heaven and earth the Islam God responsible for a false prophet who claims a false teaching.

Did Christ not tell us, many will say did I not preach and teach in your name. etc. And Did Christ not say I DO NOT KNOW YOU.

Christ warned us many false prophets will CLAIM to teach in his name but are liars.

So how does Muhammad trying to deceive with a false doctrine make the God of Abraham false.

I cannot see where you people are getting that Muslims God the God of Abraham is false. because a false prophet CLAIMS to teach in his name.

Who says the Islamic god is the God of Abraham? Jesus is the God of Abraham. He said if you had the Faith of Abraham you would know Him. Those that had the Faith of Abraham became His followers. Those that rejected Him, He said, had the devil as their father.

 

[jam070406]

It’s not “my” argument. It was the words of Jesus Christ.

 

[jam070406]

It has nothing to do with distinctions of God. It has everything to do with sin. Jesus died to free us from the bondage of sin. There is no other means of sanctifying grace then the Church Jesus established. Jesus and His Church is the plan of salvation. To reject this is to reject God’s plan. It’s a rejection of the means that frees us from the bondage of the devil. It doesn’t mean, like you seem to imply, that Muslims or Jews willfully worship the devil.

 

[jam070406]

It’s not an “Islamic God”, it’s an idol.

 

[jam070406]

Truth is Truth. If Muslims dislike Catholics it’s because they dislike the fact that Jesus is God first. There is no other advocate before the Father but Jesus. You may think it’s not nice to claim Muslims worship a god of their own fashioning, but it’s true. If we say they worship the one true God does it change the fact that they are dead in their sins if they reject Jesus?
How is worshipping a false idea about who God is not worshipping an idol?

 

[agnes_therese]

How could the vicar of Christ embrace a doctrine that denies Christ’s Deity?

Church…how can this be!!!

Pope Benedict has not done any such thing. You really must learn to differentiate between personal opinions given on this forum, and Church teaching. Do you have a copy of the Catechism? Access to the Vatican website?

 

[jam070406]

You didn’t answer my question. If people set up a rival form of worship, not sanctionrd by God, with false ideas, not revealed by God. In fact, rejecting Divine revelation of Jesus. How is that not idolatry? You’ve even admitted they have a false understanding. This false understanding is in contrast to true understanding. Ie: not the True God.

 

[jam070406]

It really doesn’t. And never has. It says they “profess” to.

 

[jam070406]

And Jesus taught us about the Faith of Abraham and the sign of those who hold it.
Those that profess this Faith are Christians. They adore the one true God.
The Church only affirms the Muslim’s adherence to monotheism.

 

[jam070406]

You never answered my question. How can a rival form of worship, not sanctioned by God, to a false understanding of God not be idolatry?
Thou shalt have no false gods before me.

 

[jam070406]

Yes. Monotheism.
It does not say they hold the Faith of Abraham. Jesus makes it clear who does, in Scripture.

 

[jam070406]

I don’t ignore it. I read it in light of Tradition.

Why preach the Gospel to any non-Christian monotheists?
Are they saved? Who is their advocate before the Father, if they reject Jesus?

 

[rinnie]

It really doesn’t. And never has. It says they “profess” to.

Yes it does, it says they profess the faith of Abraham and together with us worship the One true God.

So then are you accusing us also of worshiping a false god? Because together WITH US they worship the one true God.

 

[rinnie]

Yes. Monotheism.
It does not say they hold the Faith of Abraham. Jesus makes it clear who does, in Scripture.

Really? where does it say they do not hold the faith of Abraham? How could they not hold the faith of Abraham but then profess the faith of Abraham. Could you explain?

 

[rinnie]

Who says the Islamic god is the God of Abraham? Jesus is the God of Abraham. He said if you had the Faith of Abraham you would know Him. Those that had the Faith of Abraham became His followers. Those that rejected Him, He said, had the devil as their father.

Well to begin with you are taking scripture completely out of context for starters. Jesus was not speaking to the Muslims in this scripture it was a number of Jews who rejected Jesus. He was judging them, not the Muslims.

Not it is your turn to prove what you are saying. I will state my proof. and it is up for you to refute it.

Muslims Proclaim the Absolute Oneness of God. This is the truth that all who believe they are decendants of Abraham believe.

The believe as us in the One God, they also believe they are children of Abraham, the same as we believe we are. Anyone who acknowledges the One God the Creator of Heaven and Earth hold the faith of Abraham.

Now it is your turn. Show your proof! When have the Muslims ever worshipped a false god? When did Muslims ever claim to worship plural gods.

Muslims have always claimed to worship the One true God the creator of heaven and earth. The one True God the creator of heaven and earth is My God and the God of Abraham and the Muslim God.

PLEASE show me where we all worship a false god.

Do you reject God the Father the Creator of heaven and earth?

Please show me where it is said that if you worship the creator of heaven and earth your God is false. Is Jesus Christ not God, the Creator of heaven and earth? Are we not talking of the same God here? Prove to me they are different. And you win!

 

[jam070406]

Yes it does, it says they profess the faith of Abraham

What is the Faith of Abraham Rinnie?

and together with us worship the One true God.

In the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? That’s how Catholics worship the God.
How do they “worship”?

So then are you accusing us also of worshiping a false god?

Because together WITH US they worship the one true God.

When? How? They worship Jesus? This is news to me!

 

[BenedictFTW]

You are correct. We do indeed have to accept Jesus as God. But remember another Church teaching if someone by no fault of their own. follow God the only way and the best way they can also may receive eternal life.

Now with that said, am I saying they can enter heaven without salvation through Christ? No. I am saying they will receive it through Christ, but guess thats when they will find out the truth about Christ.

What people do not understand is they are taught a false doctrine by Muhammad. But just because Muhammad claims that the angel came to him, etc. does not make God the creator of heaven and earth the God of Abraham false. Do you see what I am saying. It just makes Muhammad a false prophet.

What people fail to see in the teachings of the Church is this, Muhammad never prayed to a false God either. And the people never prayed to Muhammad they do pray to God the creator Our God.

What you must remember also is this. The God of Abraham who indeed is Jesus did not reveal himself until the N.T. SO Abraham did not teach exactly that Christ was God in the O.T.

Now of course that does not say Muhammad did not reject Christ, we all agree on this, he knew about Christ and his Church, he just rejected it and made his own religion.

To sum it up, a false religion does not make the true God false. Just the doctrine false.

I have struggled so hard with what I read in our CCC. I did not know how to think about it, because I saw quite clearly that Muslims we hear about on TV do not believe in the same God that I do. They believe in revenge and death to all who do not share their beliefs. However, our saintly Pope JPII wished us to accept that these Muslims did indeed believe in the same God. So, I tried.

Now, for the first time, someone has actually broken it down for me and I am able to be at peace with it. I still think Muslims are gone off into fantasy world where God is concerned, but some Muslims, in their own land, strive to live good lives. One of my good friends is a convert to Christianity from the Muslims. She was brought up in Iran and she told me what a great man her dad was. He loved his family, all of the extended members as well as his nearest and dearest; worked hard all of his life and obeyed all the laws of the land. He also gave to the poor and never had a bad word to say about anyone. He prayed to God all of the time, according to my friend. She firmly believes that her dad is in heaven. I had grave misgivings about this at one time; but now I think that she is probably right.

Just goes to show, we live and learn

 

[jam070406]

Really? where does it say they do not hold the faith of Abraham? How could they not hold the faith of Abraham but then profess the faith of Abraham. Could you explain?

Where does it say they do?