P
Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
The FULL revelation is in the RCatholic Church.
As for the others, they are 10% full, 50% or whatever…OK?
- Status
As for the others, they are 10% full, 50% or whatever…OK?
P
Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Oh! Those! Only those, of course!
P
Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Greek Orthodox call Allah to God?
Oh! Boy!
Oh! Boy!
A
agnes_therese
Guest
If you had read the post before responding to it, you would know that’s not what Jharek said.Greek Orthodox call Allah to God?
Oh! Boy!
R
rinnie
Guest
Yes I did to prove my point. You said because Muslims are taught a false doctrine the God is false. Do you believe Christ is the living bread from heaven. Do you believe the Eucharist is Christ?
Well as I said many protestants says its only a symbol. Is their God false? No it is not. the teaching is.
Here is one better, Lets go back to the God of Abraham. Is he not our God the one true God, the God of the Jews?
Do the Jews pray to a false God? They do not see Christ in the Trinity. Is not the Jewish God our God?
The Jew’s even have a true doctrine, but half the book. But they still do not accept Christ, which is my point. But do you believe they pray to a false God?
R
rinnie
Guest
I did not ask you that. I said show me where Abraham revealed to us that Jesus Christ was the word made flesh.
Abraham did not reveal to us the Trinity, It was Christ who revealed to us the Trinity. If Abraham revealed to us the Trinity, why did the Jews not accept it from the beginning as they accepted God the Creator of heaven and earth.
Again I agree Jesus is the promise. But where did Abraham teach God in the 3 persons? Show me?
J
jam070406
Guest
I believe Protestants who reject the Eucharist and create strange doctrines have created a Jesus of their own fashioning and need to be converted to the One True Church, outside of which there is no salvation.
I believe Jews who reject Logos altogether and follow the Talmud (false doctrine) do not know the Father and need to be converted and baptized.
I believe Muslims follow a false god fabricated in a false book and need to be converted and baptized.
I believe, as the Fathers taught, that those in sin are in bondage to the devil.
And Jesus died on the cross to conquer sin and gave us the means to be free.
Sorry, I’m not going to be politically correct for the sake of not hurting someone’s feelings.
This is the last I will say of this.
Good bye
A
Armyvet007
Guest
Since Allah is an Arabic word, it would be logical to point the person I responded to toward a country full of Arabic speakers. It would be kinda of silly to point the person to Germany to find Catholics that use the Arabic word Allah for God.
A
Armyvet007
Guest
Politically correct would be arguing that the errors within a faith are as equal to the Truths within the faith; or that the errors cancel out the Truths. Like saying that Islam can’t have the same God as Christians or Jews because Islam says [insert false teaching here] about God.
A non politically correct argument would be that a faith can contain Truths within it despite its errors. That these Truths, being God’s Truths, are greater then the errors and that these errors can not cancel out the Truths. An example of this would be the Church’s stance that the God of Islam [or Judaism, or one of the Protestant faiths] is God and that Islam’s [or one of the other’s] understanding/concept of God is faulty/full of errors.
W
Wandile
Guest
This has been interesting
opcorn: ,but I think it is time I add my perspective to this.
Honestly… It is wrong to equate the Muslim concept of God to the God of Judeo-Christian faith simply because of how radically different they are.
The truth is theological differences separate their God from ours. It is possible to have theological differences and still believe in the true God…But then there come a point where the line has to be drawn, and the Muslims have clearly crossed that line.:tsktsk:
Denying the core tenets of faith :
“For if he that cometh preacheth another
Christ, whom we have not preached; or if
you receive another Spirit, whom you
have not received; or another gospel
which you have not received; you might
well bear with him.”
2 Corithians 11:4 Douay-Rheims Bible
We see Paul even recognised that there comes a point when theological differences amount to a new personage due to the radical difference between the two Christs that have been presented.
In the same way, the Islamic concept of God has deviated so far that it can no longer be recognised as an incorrect understanding of God, but only as a correct understanding of a false deity with a false messiah (Qur’anic Jesus) .
opcorn: ,but I think it is time I add my perspective to this.Honestly… It is wrong to equate the Muslim concept of God to the God of Judeo-Christian faith simply because of how radically different they are.
The truth is theological differences separate their God from ours. It is possible to have theological differences and still believe in the true God…But then there come a point where the line has to be drawn, and the Muslims have clearly crossed that line.:tsktsk:
Denying the core tenets of faith :
- Jesus as the Son of God
- The hypostatic union of Jesus
- Jesus’ crucifixion
- Jesus’ death and resurrection
- The Holy Trinity
- God as Father
- The Holy Spirit as God
“For if he that cometh preacheth another
Christ, whom we have not preached; or if
you receive another Spirit, whom you
have not received; or another gospel
which you have not received; you might
well bear with him.”
2 Corithians 11:4 Douay-Rheims Bible
We see Paul even recognised that there comes a point when theological differences amount to a new personage due to the radical difference between the two Christs that have been presented.
In the same way, the Islamic concept of God has deviated so far that it can no longer be recognised as an incorrect understanding of God, but only as a correct understanding of a false deity with a false messiah (Qur’anic Jesus) .
B
BenedictFTW
Guest
This is all true and I am sure all of us know these things. Most Catholics quake at the thought that Muslims believe in the same God that we do. However, there is really no point in getting technical about it, as it is in our CCC and we are BOUND to obey it. I found, through these postings, a way of being at peace with it. I was never able to find that before. God blessThis has been interesting
Honestly… It is wrong to equate the Muslim concept of God to the God of Judeo-Christian faith simply because of how radically different they are.
The truth is theological differences separate their God from ours. It is possible to have theological differences and still believe in the true God…But then there come a point where the line has to be drawn, and the Muslims have clearly crossed that line.:tsktsk:
Denying the core tenets of faith :
I can go on but you get the point. I will quote Paul to put this to end :
- Jesus as the Son of God
- The hypostatic union of Jesus
- Jesus’ crucifixion
- Jesus’ death and resurrection
- The Holy Trinity
- God as Father
- The Holy Spirit as God
“For if he that cometh preacheth another
Christ, whom we have not preached; or if
you receive another Spirit, whom you
have not received; or another gospel
which you have not received; you might
well bear with him.”
2 Corithians 11:4 Douay-Rheims Bible
We see Paul even recognised that there comes a point when theological differences amount to a new personage due to the radical difference between the two Christs that have been presented.
In the same way, the Islamic concept of God has deviated so far that it can no longer be recognised as an incorrect understanding of God, but only as a correct understanding of a false deity with a false messiah (Qur’anic Jesus) .
meltzerboy
New member
FYI, what you call the false doctrine of the Talmud consists of two parts: the Mishnah (Oral Law) and the Gemorrah (commentaries on the Oral Law). Orthodox Jews do believe the Oral Law of the Talmud was transmitted by G-d to Moses at Mount Sinai, together with the Torah (Written Law), the first five books of the Hebrew Bible. The Gemorrah, however, consists of rabbinical interpretations and opinions regarding the Oral Law, as well as the Written Law. These are necessary since the Torah and the Talmud are often very difficult to interpret. However, these opinions, authoritative as they may be, are often conflicting and are not binding. All of this is applicable only to Torah (Orthodox) Judaism. For those Jews less orthodox, the Oral Law of the Talmud is not binding at all since it is not regarded as divinely inspired, and for some even less orthodox, neither is much of the Written Law.
W
Wandile
Guest
The problem with this is that the CCC is not as clear as most people think it is on this topic. It dances around the issue but never definitively claims that they worship the same God as us.This is all true and I am sure all of us know these things. Most Catholics quake at the thought that Muslims believe in the same God that we do. However, there is really no point in getting technical about it, as it is in our CCC and we are BOUND to obey it. I found, through these postings, a way of being at peace with it. I was never able to find that before. God bless
"The Conciliar statement also wisely adds the caveat, all
too often ignored by the Church’s critics, that
“Mohammedans” (Musulmanos) are “professing” to hold
the faith of Abraham. Whether or not they actually hold it
is arguable, but the Vatican Council is only noting that
they claim for their faith that it is that of Abraham, without
discussing whether or not Islam actually is an
authentically Abrahamic faith.
Likewise widely misinterpreted, or at least given a
weight that it was clearly never meant to bear, is the
subsequent affirmation that Muslims “along with us
adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will
judge mankind.” Many see in this also an assertion that
the Gospel need not be preached to Muslims, or that
they are already saved, for they adore the one and
merciful God. Many Catholics, including writers of some
prominence, have asserted that Vatican II, and the
Catechism of the Catholic Church that quotes it, teach
that Catholics and Muslims worship the same God, and
then proceed as if this establishes more than it actually
does, or as if it were obvious that the Council was thus
forbidding a critical stance toward Islam or concern
about Islamic supremacist advances in Europe and the
U.S.
In declaring that both Muslims and Catholics adore the
one and merciful God, the Council obviously did not
mean that Muslims and Catholics regard that God in
exactly the same way, or that the differences were
insignificant. The Council is silent on the question of
whether or not the Muslims’ adoration is blind or
informed. So what, then, is the Council actually saying?
Vatican II was a large-scale attempt to restore
relationships that had been broken for centuries and
build new bridges of trust where groups had been
divided from the Church by centuries of mistrust,
suspicion and outright conflict. Consequently it
emphasized common ground rather than differences,
unlike every ecumenical council that preceded it. No
case, however, can be made that its statement about the
shared adoration of the one and merciful God in any
way mitigated the Church’s truth claim or sense of its
own responsibility to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ,
any more than shared monotheism removes that
responsibility in regard to Protestants or anyone else,
for that responsibility is reiterated in the same passage.
It is not even certain that the Council is saying that
Muslims and Catholics adore the same “one and
merciful God.” Muslims certainly believe that their one
and merciful God is the same One whom Christians
(and Jews) worship, for the Qur’an tells them so (29:46).
And whether they know it or not, the only God actually
available to receive their adoration and hear their
prayers is the Christian one. However, the differences in
how Muslims and Catholics conceive of the one and
merciful God lead to the possibility that while Muslims
believe that they are worshiping the same God that
Catholic worship, the teachings of Islam itself, despite
the Qur’an’s insistence that Muslims worship the same
God as do Christians and Jews, actually paints a picture
of a God who is substantially different from the God of
the Bible and the Catholic Faith."
- Robert Spencer
W
Wandile
Guest
The Catechism is ambiguous on this as noted in my previous post. The people who wrote #841 were very smart and chose their words wisely so as to make the statement of faith not as controversial as it could be if they gave a simple statement of their position on the muslims.
NO IT DOES NOT. I’ll refer you to the quotation I posted -
All it says is that Mohammedans” (Musulmanos) are “professing” to hold the faith of Abraham. Whether or not they actually hold it is arguable, but the Vatican Council is only noting that they claim for their faith that it is that of Abraham, without discussing whether or not Islam actually is an authentically Abrahamic faith.
NO IT DOES NOT. I’ll refer you to the quotation I posted -
All it says is that Mohammedans” (Musulmanos) are “professing” to hold the faith of Abraham. Whether or not they actually hold it is arguable, but the Vatican Council is only noting that they claim for their faith that it is that of Abraham, without discussing whether or not Islam actually is an authentically Abrahamic faith.
R
rinnie
Guest
Who ever said Islam was a merciful and kind religion?
What does Islam having a false doctrine have to do with them praying to the One True God?
R
rinnie
Guest
I am sorry but that is your personal opinion. You are in direct conflict with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.
I do not go by personal opinions of people. I am RC and I go by the teaching’s of my Church. I do not have the power of the Holy Spirit to teach or preach what I think. I must go by my Church.
R
rinnie
Guest
I have no idea what this means. Jesus Christ is the same God as the God of Abraham.It is stated in the bible. Before Abraham I AM!
R
rinnie
Guest
How do you feel the Muslims believe half-way in Abraham? What does this mean, and where did you get this teaching?
W
Wandile
Guest
EVERYTHING!Who ever said Islam was a merciful and kind religion?
It is one thing to have one or two conflicting doctrines… It is another to have multiple doctrines contradictory to those of the creed of the Church.
There is a fine line between a misunderstanding of who God is, and a correct understanding of a different deity.
The God of Islam is FFFFAAAAAAAAARRR too different to even be considered the same deity anymore. Allah of the Qur’an is a whole new Deity entirely.
R
rinnie
Guest
If the Vatican Council is saying that they only profess the faith of Abraham, then how can they turn around and say TOGETHER with us worship the One true God.The Catechism is ambiguous on this as noted in my previous post. The people who wrote #841 were very smart and chose their words wisely so as to make the statement of faith not as controversial as it could be if they gave a simple statement of their position on the muslims.
NO IT DOES NOT. I’ll refer you to the quotation I posted -
All it says is that Mohammedans” (Musulmanos) are “professing” to hold the faith of Abraham. Whether or not they actually hold it is arguable, but the Vatican Council is only noting that they claim for their faith that it is that of Abraham, without discussing whether or not Islam actually is an authentically Abrahamic faith.
And also what part of One True God, and ONE false teaching are you people missing here?
The Pope has a duty to teach the truth. The truth is the Muslims and the Jews and the Christians all pray to the One true God, the God of Abraham.
What part of Muslims having the One true God, but following the teachings of a false prophet are you guys missing here.
Can you not see that this is a simple truth. They pray to Allah who is GOD The creator of heaven and earth.
What does them having a false teaching have to do with them praying to the ONE TRUE GOD the creator of heaven and earth.
- Status