Church teaching on Islam

[Wandile]

Never did I say it was the Church’s opinion. I know that it is mine and I am fallible but even the Bishops of the Church are but mere men. Now I am subject to the teachings of Mother Church but yet how I read the Catechism is quite different to the way you read it clearly.

If I am found in conflict with the Church on this topic then so be it. I am of this stance and as for now believe in it. Although I take on the example of my predecessors like Jerome who although questioned the Deuterocanonicals, still never voiced his opinion over that of the Church. But rather stuck to his beliefs but chose taught those of the Church in humility and thus included the Deuterocanon in the Vulgate.

In the same way I will stay contempt to my beliefs until I receive a better case other wise. But in the event of evangelizing, I will only teach what the Church teaches. and NOT what I think is true.

This issue on muslims however, is VERY debatable and even apologists interpret the passage differently.

 

[rinnie]

EVERYTHING!

It is one thing to have one or two conflicting doctrines… It is another to have multiple doctrines contradictory to those of the creed of the Church.

There is a fine line between a misunderstanding of who God is, and a correct understanding of a different deity.

The God of Islam is FFFFAAAAAAAAARRR too different to even be considered the same deity anymore. Allah of the Qur’an is a whole new Deity entirely.

Why? What does conflicting doctrines have to do with the God of Abraham, the God that Muslims pray to and we pray to make the One true God false.

Is the God of Abraham the One true God? Yes or No? If the Muslims have a false god, so do we. Because the CC teaches TOGETHER WITH US worship the ONE TRUE GOD.

Or are you saying that the Church is a liar?

 

[Wandile]

If the Vatican Council is saying that they only profess the faith of Abraham, then how can they turn around and say TOGETHER with us worship the One true God.

And also what part of One True God, and ONE false teaching are you people missing here?

The Pope has a duty to teach the truth. The truth is the Muslims and the Jews and the Christians all pray to the One true God, the God of Abraham.

What part of Muslims having the One true God, but following the teachings of a false prophet are you guys missing here.

Can you not see that this is a simple truth. They pray to Allah who is GOD The creator of heaven and earth.

What does them having a false teaching have to do with them praying to the ONE TRUE GOD the creator of heaven and earth.

Ok I have come to the conclusion that my attempts we’re ambitious and that I read the CCC incorrectly. The Church is teaching that we worship the same God.

However I can’t accept such a teaching. Not now at least. Maybe never but I will not teach my opinion to a potential Christian but only the teaching of the Church.

In spirit, I still believe that Allah (of the Qur’an) is not YHWH.

Please contact me directly at wmgwenya@gmail.com or inbox me directly her on CAF

God bless

 

[rinnie]

Never did I say it was the Church’s opinion. I know that it is mine and I am fallible but even the Bishops of the Church are but mere men. Now I am subject to the teachings of Mother Church but yet how I read the Catechism is quite different to the way you read it clearly.

If I am found in conflict with the Church on this topic then so be it. I am of this stance and as for now believe in it. Although I take on the example of my predecessors like Jerome who although questioned the Deuterocanonicals, still never voiced his opinion over that of the Church. But rather stuck to his beliefs but chose taught those of the Church in humility and thus included the Deuterocanon in the Vulgate.

In the same way I will stay contempt to my beliefs until I receive a better case other wise. But in the event of evangelizing, I will only teach what the Church teaches. and NOT what I think is true.

This issue on muslims however, is VERY debatable and even apologists interpret the passage differently.

How can you possibly interpret this passage differently.

The Vatican Council 11 Quote The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship GOD who is One living and Subsistent, merciful and Almighty the creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to humanity. Unquote.

Now how can you possibly not understand that. How can you say it is not clear?

 

[Wandile]

Why? What does conflicting doctrines have to do with the God of Abraham, the God that Muslims pray to and we pray to make the One true God false.

Is the God of Abraham the One true God? Yes or No? If the Muslims have a false god, so do we. Because the CC teaches TOGETHER WITH US worship the ONE TRUE GOD.

Or are you saying that the Church is a liar?

How did I know you would go down this path

The God of Abraham is the One true God. I told you I disagree with this teaching and am not proud of it but I am with case.

I believe the Church is not lying but is simply incorrect
on this issue. However I am not going to judge the Church and say with absolute assurity that it is wrong for that is not my place. I just hope that God shows the truth to me regarding this issue.

 

[rinnie]

Ok I have come to the conclusion that my attempts we’re ambitious and that I read the CCC incorrectly. The Church is teaching that we worship the same God.

However I can’t accept such a teaching. Not now at least. Maybe never but I will not teach my opinion to a potential Christian but only the teaching of the Church.

In spirit, I still believe that Allah (of the Qur’an) is not YHWH.

Please contact me directly at wmgwenya@gmail.com or inbox me directly her on CAF

God bless

I truly understand that you are having a hard time accepting this. And thats okay.

But remember the Pope has to teach the truth in all faiths. The truth in the Muslim faith is they do not worship a false god. We must tell the truth.

But remember these people have no idea what truth is, apart from who the true God is. They never had the honor to read the gospel. If they get caught reading a bible they could be killed.

But they are beginning to learn the truth now. Give them time, and the true children of God will turn towards Jesus. But they must learn the truth before that can accept it.

Muslims are just now learning the truth, and are comming to the RCC in record numbers. Give them time and pray for them.

 

[rinnie]

How did I know you would go down this path

The God of Abraham is the One true God. I told you I disagree with this teaching and am not proud of it but I am with case.

I believe the Church is not lying but is simply incorrect
on this issue. However I am not going to judge the Church and say with absolute assurity that it is wrong for that is not my place. I just hope that God shows the truth to me regarding this issue.

He will. Just keep praying. But remember the promise we have. Jesus promised the Church the Advocate the Holy Spirit to guide the Church into all truth.

The Holy Spirit is where the truth comes from. If the Holy Spriit speaks its the truth.

 

[Wandile]

I truly understand that you are having a hard time accepting this. And thats okay.

But remember the Pope has to teach the truth in all faiths. The truth in the Muslim faith is they do not worship a false god. We must tell the truth.

But remember these people have no idea what truth is, apart from who the true God is. They never had the honor to read the gospel. If they get caught reading a bible they could be killed.

But they are beginning to learn the truth now. Give them time, and the true children of God will turn towards Jesus. But they must learn the truth before that can accept it.

Muslims are just now learning the truth, and are comming to the RCC in record numbers. Give them time and pray for them.

My problem with this is that £any ex-muslims I have encountered (even some of CAF) say that the God of Islam is not the God of the bible. Who knows better than those who practised Islam?

Secondly we need to remember the extent of the Pope’s infalliblity. He is a man and is prone to err even in theological disputes. Now there is a VERY good chance that he is correct on this issue as he is speaking for the whole Church but I’ll have to consult God for assurity. Until then… I stand in direct opposition to this teaching

 

[rinnie]

My problem with this is that £any ex-muslims I have encountered (even some of CAF) say that the God of Islam is not the God of the bible. Who knows better than those who practised Islam?

Secondly we need to remember the extent of the Pope’s infalliblity. He is a man and is prone to err even in theological disputes. Now there is a VERY good chance that he is correct on this issue as he is speaking for the whole Church but I’ll have to consult God for assurity. Until then… I stand in direct opposition to this teaching

Yes the Pope can be incorrect when he gives his opinion on things. That is when he is stating what he thinks.

This is not an opinion of the Pope. This is a true teaching of the Church.

He cannot err when he teaches in the name of God. We have that promise from God.

Like here is an example. He was asked if a unbaptised child could go to heaven without being baptised?

He said he does not know. All he knows is the Church teaches you must be baptised to enter heaven. But he also said that we can also rely on the mercy of God.

Now in his OPINION does he THINK a baby that is not baptised can go to heaven? He says yes he chooses to believe in the mercy of God.

Can he say YES, no he cannot. Do you see what I am saying? He can only teach what is revealed to him. That is not. Only that you have to be baptised to enter heaven. or baptism of desire. thats another whole thing. Don’t want to derail. but you get my point.

But the Musims having the same God is a teaching.

 

[rinnie]

We all have teaching’s we do not understand. Or sometimes actually can say we truly agree with at times. But we must obey. We are not told we must always understand. But if we pray in God’s time he will reveal things to us.

I misunderstood Purgatory one time. I was told we do not have to believe in it anymore. But what I found out is this. We do not have to believe that it is always necessary to enter heaven through purgatory.

That some people can become Saints in this world. See it was my misunderstanding. We all get them. And we all have so much more to learn our faith.

My Dad was 82 when he died, he served Mass 5 days a week with Father, was a Knight, and was still learning before he died. And read the bible through hundreds of times. He said we will never have enough time in this world to learn it all.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I am sorry but that is your personal opinion. You are in direct conflict with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

I do not go by personal opinions of people. I am RC and I go by the teaching’s of my Church. I do not have the power of the Holy Spirit to teach or preach what I think. I must go by my Church.

It is your personal opinion that that is my personal opinion.
State which teaching of the Catholic Church I conflict with…
I am RCC member as much as you.
I go by my Church.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I have no idea what this means. Jesus Christ is the same God as the God of Abraham.

It is stated in the bible. Before Abraham I AM!

What that means?
Means that Islam jumped over Jesus Christ and says that it is based on Abraham.
What about Jesus Christ? Mohammed knew Jesus Christ !!! Why did he not adore Him?
I am not Abrahamist I am Christian.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

How do you feel the Muslims believe half-way in Abraham? What does this mean, and where did you get this teaching?

It was promised in Abraham the coming of Jesus Christ.
Mahommed knew Jesus Christ. Why did he not adore him?
Why he killed millions of followers of Jesus Christ?
Why he conquered the North of Africa by the sword and tried and is trying to kill and conquer Christians?
He does not seem to follow Abraham !!!
The followers of Abraham are us, Christians and above all the RCC.
Let us not get deluded: it is not because I call a table “banana” that the table is a banana. It is not because they say they are followers of Abraham that they are followers of Abraham…

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

EVERYTHING!

It is one thing to have one or two conflicting doctrines… It is another to have multiple doctrines contradictory to those of the creed of the Church.

There is a fine line between a misunderstanding of who God is, and a correct understanding of a different deity.

The God of Islam is FFFFAAAAAAAAARRR too different to even be considered the same deity anymore. Allah of the Qur’an is a whole new Deity entirely.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

It is my opinion too. So we are 2.
So, you are the Church?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

My problem with this is that £any ex-muslims I have encountered (even some of CAF) say that the God of Islam is not the God of the bible. Who knows better than those who practised Islam?

Secondly we need to remember the extent of the Pope’s infalliblity. He is a man and is prone to err even in theological disputes. Now there is a VERY good chance that he is correct on this issue as he is speaking for the whole Church but I’ll have to consult God for assurity. Until then… I stand in direct opposition to this teaching

The problem with Wandile and others is that they are speaking in Black and White, or rather, True, False.
All religions adore God, even the ones who have 100 million god.
But, the full, the fullness of Revelation is in the RCC, better in Jesus Christ.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Why? What does conflicting doctrines have to do with the God of Abraham, the God that Muslims pray to and we pray to make the One true God false.

Is the God of Abraham the One true God? Yes or No? If the Muslims have a false god, so do we. Because the CC teaches TOGETHER WITH US worship the ONE TRUE GOD.

Or are you saying that the Church is a liar?

The Muslim do not pray to the God of Abraham. Period.
They say so, but we say no.
The God of Abraham is Jesus Christ, whom they DO NOT adore.
On the contrary, they kill all the followers of Jesus Christ, calling them “infidels”.
How can they adore the God of Abraham if they reject Jesus Christ?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I’ve heard that the church’s position that Muslims worship the same God as Christians constitutes a teaching on faith or morals that Catholics must give religious assent to. Is this true and if so, how is it a teaching on faith or morals?

How come the Muslims adore the same God of Christians if they do not adore Jesus Christ and kill the followers of Jesus Christ as “infidels”? If someone could explain me that !
St Paul was persecuting the Christians and Jesus Christ appeared to Him and said : “Why do you persecute Me?”.
“Me” were the christians.
the Muslims killed already in 1400 years of history millions of Christians.
How come they can adore the same God as us?
Please someone explain to me as if I were stupid!

 

[rinnie]

It was promised in Abraham the coming of Jesus Christ.
Mahommed knew Jesus Christ. Why did he not adore him?
Why he killed millions of followers of Jesus Christ?
Why he conquered the North of Africa by the sword and tried and is trying to kill and conquer Christians?
He does not seem to follow Abraham !!!
The followers of Abraham are us, Christians and above all the RCC.
Let us not get deluded: it is not because I call a table “banana” that the table is a banana. It is not because they say they are followers of Abraham that they are followers of Abraham…

What does Muhammad teaching a false doctrine have to do with Muslims praying to the one true God??

Why do you continue to argue with me that Muhammad is teaching a false doctrine? Where did I ever say, Even ONE TIME that Muhammad’s teaching is true.

I AGREE that the teachings are false, and he did not teach them the true Gospel. But we are not arguing about whether Muhammad is teaching a true gospel. We are arguing whether Muslims are praying to a false god or not.

Why do you continue to tell me the teachings they have are false. How many times do I have to tell you I KNOW THAT.

You need to show me where the RCC is wrong in saying Muslims do not pray to a false god.

That is whay YOU are saying, the Church is saying they do NOT have a false god, and I agree,

Muslims say they pray to the One true God the God of Abraham, the Church agrees. It is you who are saying they are praying to a false god.

So now PROVE IT! If they are not praying to the One true God the Creator of Heaven and Earth show me this false god they pray to.

 

[rinnie]

The Muslim do not pray to the God of Abraham. Period.
They say so, but we say no.
The God of Abraham is Jesus Christ, whom they DO NOT adore.
On the contrary, they kill all the followers of Jesus Christ, calling them “infidels”.
How can they adore the God of Abraham if they reject Jesus Christ?

The same way the Jews can. If you claim that the Muslims are praying to a false God you can put every single Jew including back to Abraham and accuse him of the same.

Why did Moses not pray in the name of Jesus Christ? Why did David not pray in the name of Jesus Christ.

The Jews cannot see Christ as the true Son of God, the Muslims cannot see Christ as the true Son of God. So then if they cannot see Jesus as the true son of God it makes their God false? Right?

Because this is what you continue to say, and it makes no sense.

Also why can you not understand that the Muslims are not given the true gosple to follow. How can they be blamed when all they were allowed to read was a false gospel.

You continue to state Muhammad knew about Christ and rejected him, I do not disagree with you on that. But how can you blame Muslims for rejecting Christ when they were never given the true gospel. Please show me in the Koran where it is stated Jesus died for our sins, was the Son of God, and was rejected and rose again from the dead for the forgiveness of sins and will come again in glory.

They know very little about Jesus, only what Muhammad wrote, can you not see he did not write the truth.