Church teaching on Islam

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rinnie said:
Exactly we are taught that many will come in the name of the One True God but will spread false truths.

And as the Church teaches and we agree the Muslim teachings are indeed false doctrines.

But as in Nostra Aetate, a true teaching of our faith shows us they do indeed adore the One true God, although they only accept Jesus as a Prophet.

Our Church teachings are quite clear in this teaching.
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This document is one you will find in Vat II, which is pastoral only. It is not part of the infallible documents of our Church. I think it came about in order to help us come to some resolution with the Muslims, who are hell-bent on killing us all. For the sake of dialogue and in the Wisdom of our Holy Father at the time, this Nostra Aetate was pastoral only. God bless.

“A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.”
 
BenedictFTW said:
Seems Muslims deny that they believe in Our God. They insist that ‘Allah’ is greater than the ‘Christian God’.

Yet, we must believe that they believe in the One True God, because our CCC infallibly says so!

Muslims just don’t know that they do.🙂
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I totally agree with what you are saying. Many People say that if you do not accept Christ as the Son of God you cannot pray to the One true God. This is not a teaching of our faith.

That is why we cannot say that if someone does not accept Jesus or see Jesus as the Son of God, that they then indeed have a false god.

Although we cannot deny that Salvation comes from Jesus Christ, nor deny any truth we have, We cannot in turn deny the truth that they do have.

The truth that is taught very clear in the CC is that they do indeed adore the one true God creator of heaven and earth. Which again is defined quite clear in Nostra Aetate.
 
rinnie said:
I totally agree with what you are saying. Many People say that if you do not accept Christ as the Son of God you cannot pray to the One true God. This is not a teaching of our faith.

That is why we cannot say that if someone does not accept Jesus or see Jesus as the Son of God, that they then indeed have a false god.

Although we cannot deny that Salvation comes from Jesus Christ, nor deny any truth we have, We cannot in turn deny the truth that they do have.

The truth that is taught very clear in the CC is that they do indeed adore the one true God creator of heaven and earth. Which again is defined quite clear in Nostra Aetate.
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Truth is truth. No matter what any document says. Look at what St Paul tells the Galatians: "I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed! .
 
rinnie said:
I totally agree with what you are saying. Many People say that if you do not accept Christ as the Son of God you cannot pray to the One true God. This is not a teaching of our faith. ???
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Isn’t it???

" This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ came in the flesh belongs to God, and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world. "
 
Pope JPII, God bless him, asked us Catholics to build bridges between us and the “eternally damned”:

“Let us strive to understand why they prefer a lifetime of sinful defiance and an eternity of excruciating torment. Let us encourage among them an open exchange of heresies, blasphemies and anathema. For only by fostering a spirit of love and goodwill among all human beings, even the most wayward of the flock, can the Church divert them from their sinful, hellbound path.” (The Onion.Com Jan 14, 1998)

I think we must bear these words in mind when considering the truth behind the claim that Muslims worship the same God. I think this is taking the meaning of what is in CCC too far, in my understanding of it all.
 
BenedictFTW said:
Isn’t it???

" This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ came in the flesh belongs to God, and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world. "
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Because the Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in any religion.

It has a high regard for the manner of life and precepts and doctrines which although differing in many ways from our own teachings often reflect a ray of the truth which enlightens all men and women.

It is our duty indeed to proclaim our faith that it is Christ who is the way the truth and the life.

We know the Spirit of God by the teachings of Christ. But that does not mean that someone can come and sway people from the true word of Christ.

I am not in argument that Muhammad is teaching a false doctrine, nor am I in argument that he is a fasle prophet.

I am in argument that he teaches the followers of the Koran to pray to a false God. He does not.

That is where I said if a teaching is false does not make the God false.

That is when I said that Protestants who reject Christ in the Eucharist are not praying to a false god because they have a false teaching.

They were my simple proof that you can indeed pray to the One True God and be led from the true teachings of God.

Let me ask you. Do you believe that you can reject Christ in the Eucharist and still pray and believe in the one true God?

Because many Protestants do. I am sorry but they claim the Eucharist is only a symbol. What do you say, Do you see a difference in how you deny Christ?

What is the difference between denying him in the Eucharist and denying him in the Trinity? First explain that to me.
 
BenedictFTW said:
Pope JPII, God bless him, asked us Catholics to build bridges between us and the “eternally damned”:

“Let us strive to understand why they prefer a lifetime of sinful defiance and an eternity of excruciating torment. Let us encourage among them an open exchange of heresies, blasphemies and anathema. For only by fostering a spirit of love and goodwill among all human beings, even the most wayward of the flock, can the Church divert them from their sinful, hellbound path.” (The Onion.Com Jan 14, 1998)

I think we must bear these words in mind when considering the truth behind the claim that Muslims worship the same God. I think this is taking the meaning of what is in CCC too far, in my understanding of it all.
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How do you see him saying that Muslims together with us adore the One true God. You are saying he went to far? How? Does he not have that authority to teach in the name of God. And did he not teach that?
 
rinnie said:
How do you see him saying that Muslims together with us adore the One true God. You are saying he went to far? How? Does he not have that authority to teach in the name of God. And did he not teach that?
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Our wonderful Blessed Pope John Paul The Great did not go too far. He was the embodiment of Our Blessed Lord and believed passionately in the love and peace of Christ.

No, what I said was that WE go too far when we translate what it says in our CCC that Muslims worship the same God. I do not think that is what it is saying.

As Pope John Paul II said - these people are the ‘eternally damned’ and need our friendship in order to dialogue and teach them about Jesus Christ. As Jesus said, we must “Go out and preach to all nations!”

If you are mistaken in believing that they already worship the One True God, you will not be mindful of their real needs. It is a trick of the devil.
 
BenedictFTW said:
Our wonderful Blessed Pope John Paul The Great did not go too far. He was the embodiment of Our Blessed Lord and believed passionately in the love and peace of Christ.

No, what I said was that WE go too far when we translate what it says in our CCC that Muslims worship the same God. I do not think that is what it is saying.

As Pope John Paul II said - these people are the ‘eternally damned’ and need our friendship in order to dialogue and teach them about Jesus Christ. As Jesus said, we must “Go out and preach to all nations!”

If you are mistaken in believing that they already worship the One True God, you will not be mindful of their real needs. It is a trick of the devil.
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I showed you where he explained it quite clear in the Vatican Council 11 Constitutions, decress and declarations. Which of these do you feel that we are not bound to?:confused:
 
BenedictFTW said:
Our wonderful Blessed Pope John Paul The Great did not go too far. He was the embodiment of Our Blessed Lord and believed passionately in the love and peace of Christ.

No, what I said was that WE go too far when we translate what it says in our CCC that Muslims worship the same God. I do not think that is what it is saying.

As Pope John Paul II said - these people are the ‘eternally damned’ and need our friendship in order to dialogue and teach them about Jesus Christ. As Jesus said, we must “Go out and preach to all nations!”

If you are mistaken in believing that they already worship the One True God, you will not be mindful of their real needs. It is a trick of the devil.
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Yes he told them quite clear that they have false teachings. I know what he told them. But if they were worshipping a false god do you think he would not tell them?

If he felt they were worshipping a false god what would stop him from saying so. ANd if he believed they worshipped a false god, why would he put us in the same position.

It is quite clear that TOGETHER with us WORSHIP the one true God. Now with that said is this or is this not the teaching of our Pope?

Also I have never heard our Pope dam anyone to hell. Please show me where he said this.
 
Also Pope John Paul 11 prayed with them. Together with them they all prayed to the ONE TRUE GOD.

He practiced what he preached. Please do not tell me you believe that when he prayed together with them, he was worshipping a false god.
 
rinnie said:
I showed you where he explained it quite clear in the Vatican Council 11 Constitutions, decress and declarations. Which of these do you feel that we are not bound to?:confused:
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What it says in the CCC about how these Muslims adore the monotheistic God needs to be dealt with carefully.

Pope JPII especially tried very hard to break down centuries of hatred between Christians and Muslims.

However, we must not throw the baby away with the bathwater and remember how they have reduced God to a distant God, stripped Him of His Majesty and denied Emmanuel. The truth probably is that they are centuries behind Christians with understanding the nature of God. While saying they have the True God in mind, their understanding is mired in falsity and they are directed towards a false prophet. Let’s us use the spiritual gifts we have been given in our Catholic faith and use discretion.

Stop being PC and use Truth - the Truth of Christ as your guide. 🙂
 
rinnie said:
Also Pope John Paul 11 prayed with them. Together with them they all prayed to the ONE TRUE GOD.

He practiced what he preached. Please do not tell me you believe that when he prayed together with them, he was worshipping a false god.
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He never prayed with them. He was there while they prayed to their Allah. A very different thing. Please be careful what you are saying about our saintly Pope.
 
For instance:

This was directed more to Muslims than to Catholics:

"The Council has also called for the Church to have a dialogue with followers of the “Prophet,” and the Church has proceeded to do so. We read in Nostra Aetate: “Even if over the course of centuries Christians and Muslims have had more than a few dissensions and quarrels, this sacred Council now urges all to forget the past and to work toward mutual understanding as well as toward the preservation and promotion of social justice, moral welfare, peace, and freedom for the benefit of all mankind” (Nostra Aetate 3).

I remember when this came out. The world was worried about the human rights violations in Muslim countries. This was the Catholic Church’s way of referring to it without condemning anyone. But, with discretion and discernment, it is easy to ready between the lines.
 
I am old enough to remember and was an avid fan of JPII. He NEVER prayed with them to their Allah. He prayed to God, obviously. They did their thing and he graciously showed the world that a Christian could pray to Jesus in the company of those who believe other. In the interests of truth, I must vehemently disagree with you.

The peace of Christ be with you. I think we should end this conversation here. I feel I am being attacked by the PC brigade. 🙂
 
Which I why I asked for his source for JPII calling them “eternally damned.” To which, I note, he has not responded. 😉
 
Here is what he said, in context. He’s speaking about Catholics and he says Abraham is a model for Catholics. And that Catholics believe in the same God as Abraham. He is not speaking for Muslims. And I can guarantee his idea of perfection here is in Jesus Christ.

“Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common, as believers and as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs of hope, but also by multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a very model of faith in God, of submission to his will and of confidence in his goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection.”
 
Yes, monotheism. He was attempting to point to Jesus by showing the true nature of God. He was in no way affirming that they hold the Faith of Abraham, or that we both worship the true God, or that Islam will save them. He speaks for Catholicism, not Muslims.
 
You just attempted to show that Catholics and Muslims worship the same God by erroneously quoting JPII. Muslims only know one way of worship, which is through Islam. JPII was more attempting to show that true worship comes through Jesus and manifests in love of neighbor. Not affirming that they worship the one true God.
 
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