Church teaching on Islam

[rinnie]

No I do!
Can you answer what the Faith of Abraham is or whether the words in the Koran attributed to God are the word of the one true God? They couldn’t. Like them, you just seem to want to insult me and not answer.

I explained this to you days ago. You refuse to accept what the Church teaches.

 

[catharina]

I am telling you the truth.

The Pope prayed to God in a perfect way through the Trinity.

Just because Muslims pray to God in an un-perfect way does not mean they pray to a false god.

We have the fullness of the truth through the Church because of Jesus Christ. We are all taught to bring all to Salvation through the Church.

But to say that Muslims pray to a false God is untrue. It is not the God that they pray to that is in-perfect, It is the way they pray that is in-perfect. They do not have the revelation of God through the Trinity as we do.

We are taught the PERFECT way to pray, That is through the Father Son and Holy Spirit. ONE GOD in the 3 persons.

But to say they pray to a different God is false. And it is untrue and unfair to say that the Church does not teach the truth. It does.

It states together with us they pray to the One true God. It never states that they pray in the perfect way, Simply because the perfect way is the way Jesus taught us which is through the Trinity.

But we are also taught that although they may pray in-perfect through no fault of their own they can still obtain Salvation in ways that are only known to God.

Again it is wrong to say the Church does not know what is taught, or to say the Pope went overboard in his teachings. He has the power of the Holy Spirit to teach and preach in the name of Christ. And he did.

He gave us the teaching. We can reject or accept them. He has the keys to the kingdom and I believe every word he teaches.

**Thank you

and **

GOD bless you!

 

[jam070406]

This is not an insult.
This is pointing out a FACT.

Why you would chose to prolong an intellectual argument
(that has LONG been settled by the Catholic Church) is
beyond my imagination. Plus, it holds no interest for me.

Only God is God.
Islam, worshiping ONE GOD is the worship of one God.
Sorry if you feel that someone must PROVE this to you.

Good luck with that.

You can’t answer. I understand, neither could the others. If you follow it to it’s logical conclusion it doesn’t make sense. You are afraid that you will be in opposition to the Church. The exact fear and guilt you try to project on me. Of course, you will be unable to find an infallible teaching that states I am anathema for not believing Catholics and Muslims worship the same one true God.
But hey…
Good luck yourself!

 

[jam070406]

I explained this to you days ago. You refuse to accept what the Church teaches.

You gave your opinion. Which didn’t follow and was in contradiction with Scripture, as others pointed out.

 

[catharina]

You can’t answer. I understand, neither could the others. If you follow it to it’s logical conclusion it doesn’t make sense. You are afraid that you will be in opposition to the Church. The exact fear and guilt you try to project on me. Of course, you will be unable to find an infallible teaching that states I am anathema for not believing Catholics and Muslims worship the same one true God.
But hey…
Good luck yourself!

You are quite the accuser.
Guess that suits you.

Nevertheless, we are to believe all that
the Catholic Church teaches - and I do.

So I am without fear about that. If you do not fear
to find yourself at odds with the teachings
of the Church, to find yourself Preaching Against
the teachings of the Church, then I fear for you.

PS - I’ll surely pray for you.

 

[catharina]

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

BRAVO!

 

[jam070406]

You are quite the accuser.

Call em like I see em. Prove me other wise, by your actions.

Guess that suits you.

More insults.

Nevertheless, we are to believe all that
the Catholic Church teaches - and I do.

I do.

So I am without fear about that. If you do not fear
to find yourself at odds with the teachings
of the Church, to find yourself Preaching Against
the teachings of the Church, then I fear for you.

I am not at odds with Church Teaching. At least any that you can point out.

PS - I’ll surely pray for you.

Thanks. I’ll do the same.

 

[rinnie]

You gave your opinion. Which didn’t follow and was in contradiction with Scripture, as others pointed out.

No it was not my opinion. I quoted to you what I read from the Vatican Council 11. It is what is taught to me by my Pope.

Word for word may I add.

 

[jam070406]

The one true God is the Trinity. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ… IE: The second person of the Trinity. Please point out where The Pope says Muslims worship the Trinity.
They have stated Muslims believe in one God. That’s it.

Muslims explicitly deny the Trinity.
Deny the Trinity = deny the one true God.

Dominus Iesus clarifies what you seem to not get.

1. The proper response to God’s revelation is “the obedience of faith (Rom 16:26; cf. Rom 1:5; 2 Cor 10:5-6) by which man freely entrusts his entire self to God, offering ‘the full submission of intellect and will to God who reveals’ and freely assenting to the revelation given by him”.15 Faith is a gift of grace: “in order to have faith, the grace of God must come first and give assistance; there must also be the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and gives ‘to everyone joy and ease in assenting to and believing in the truth’”.16

The obedience of faith implies acceptance of the truth of Christ’s revelation, guaranteed by God, who is Truth itself:17 “Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed”.18 Faith, therefore, as “a gift of God” and as “a supernatural virtue infused by him”,19 involves a dual adherence: to God who reveals and to the truth which he reveals, out of the trust which one has in him who speaks. Thus, “we must believe in no one but God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”.20

For this reason, the distinction between theological faith and belief in the other religions, must be firmly held. If faith is the acceptance in grace of revealed truth, which “makes it possible to penetrate the mystery in a way that allows us to understand it coherently”,21 then belief, in the other religions, is that sum of experience and thought that constitutes the human treasury of wisdom and religious aspiration, which man in his search for truth has conceived and acted upon in his relationship to God and the Absolute.22

 

[jam070406]

No it was not my opinion. I quoted to you what I read from the Vatican Council 11. It is what is taught to me by my Pope.

Word for word may I add.

1. Therefore, the theory of the limited, incomplete, or imperfect character of the revelation of Jesus Christ, which would be complementary to that found in other religions, is contrary to the Church’s faith. Such a position would claim to be based on the notion that the truth about God cannot be grasped and manifested in its globality and completeness by any historical religion, neither by Christianity nor by Jesus Christ.

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfunici.htm

 

[jam070406]

Which begs the question:

Define “together with us”

 

[jam070406]

There is one true God. Muslim’s worship is not directed towards Him.

And you still haven’t answered the questions regarding the faith of Abraham.
And God in the Koran.

 

[jam070406]

I notice you didn’t address post #400.

 

[jam070406]

There’s the rub. Muslims worship the “god” who has spoken in the Q’uran.

Whom you admit is NOT DIVINELY INSPIRED. Therefore NOT THE ONE TRUE GOD!
Their worship is directed AWAY from the one True God.
And it is where your whole argument unravels. And why so many refused to answer.
Because it is the only logical conclusion. And why the Pope can merely say one God, and the texts only say one god.
One god indeed…their own version!

 

[catharina]

There’s the rub. Muslims worship the “god” who has spoken in the Q’uran.

Whom you admit is NOT DIVINELY INSPIRED. Therefore NOT THE ONE TRUE GOD!
Their worship is directed AWAY from the one True God.
And it is where your whole argument unravels. And why so many refused to answer.
Because it is the only logical conclusion. And why the Pope can merely say one God, and the texts only say one god.
One god indeed…their own version!

How horribly sad for you.

One God indeed - as there exists ONLY One God.

NOT as you insist:
The Christian God,and then that other,
the Moslem God.

Plus, most basic of all, you have the audacity to INSIST that
someone must PROVE the fact of ONE God for all to you!!!

You insist on PROOF???
Why should YOU insist on proof?
No reason at all.

That’s a really outlandish demand you are making of Almighty GOD.

 

[jam070406]

How horribly sad for you.

Sad for Muslims. They need the Truth!

One God indeed - as there exists ONLY One God.

Indeed! As I have always maintained.

NOT as you insist:

I don’t insist. Muslims do. They reject Jesus, the Savior how sad. They insist He is not God.

The Christian God,and then that other,

There is only one. The Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

the Moslem God.

The Moslem God is the One True God, the Trinity, and I pray they accept Him. The Islamic god is something different entirely. Made up. As others have pointed out.

Plus, most basic of all, you have the audacity to INSIST that
someone must PROVE the fact of ONE God for all to you!!!

I didn’t insist on proof of One God for all. I believe in one God of all, the plan of salvation includes every human. That plan is Jesus and His Church. Some reject Him. Including Muslims.

You insist on PROOF???

What Proof? Proof that Muslims have the Faith of Abraham? You’re right, I guess I don’t need proof. They don’t.

Why should YOU insist on proof?

No reason at all.

uh yeah… Some make the claim. But reality says otherwise. By their fruits you will know them.

That’s a really outlandish demand you are making of Almighty GOD.

Oh please. Stop with the scare tactics.
The ones that should be concerned are those the claim to know the Father but deny the Son.
They need out prayers!!

 

[jam070406]

Which begs the question:

Define “together with us”

:tiphat:

 

[jam070406]

You’re right. Call it a deity then. Whatever that thing is that speaks in the Koran, it’s not the one True God. I wish Muslims would quit following it and accept Jesus is God!

 

[catharina]

uh yeah… Some make the claim. But reality says otherwise. By their fruits you will know them.

**You seem to hold as a primary “truth”
that Moslems do not worship GOD.
That is contrary to the teachings
of the Church and our faith.

How horribly sad for you - to
cling to (and invent) such a “fruit” as yours.

It (your fruit) is nothing but error.**

 

[jam070406]

catharina:
Ha! That was clever the way you did that. Turned the fruits idea around on me.

Muslims do not worship the Trinity, no. Sadly, they reject Him.
It’s not contrary to Church teaching. The Church has never taught that Muslims worship the Trinity, not sure where you get that.