Church teaching on Islam

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Especially when we learned it in like first grade.

God from God, light from light, True God from True God.

So in order to reject what the Pope is saying, You have to reject ONE GOD. Which makes it worse because he said together with US worship the ONE TRUE GOD!

Or as usual the Vicar of Christ knows exactly what he is talking about!!😃
Ladies, please!!! Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I think we are done here.
 
Especially when we learned it in like first grade.

God from God, light from light, True God from True God.

So in order to reject what the Pope is saying, You have to reject ONE GOD. Which makes it worse because he said together with US worship the ONE TRUE GOD!

Or as usual the Vicar of Christ knows exactly what he is talking about!!😃
Now you are putting words in the Pope’s mouth? He said “one God”
 
Yes he did.
Yes he did.
Yeah right. Then tell me this show me where the prophets taught the mystery of the Trinity one God in three divine persons.

Please because it was not until the time of the N.T. the days of the Paschal Mystery and in the joys of Pentecost was the Holy Spirit REVEALED as a DISTINCT DIVINE PERSON.

If this was so apparent tell me why even after the Resurrection the APostles remained timd frightened and unsure of themselves with the message they were proclaiming.

Why then was it at Pentecost when the Spirit appreared to them and came to rest of them and they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

Sorry I have no idea what you are talking about.

In the O.T. there is a growing awareness about the working of God’s Spirit in this world. Sure the Prophets taught that God was present in the word by his Spirit and in the messianac days the life and joy given by the gift of Gods Spirit would be abundant.

But you are dead wrong. The mystery of the Trinity ONE GOD in 3 divine persons was not yet revealed to the chosen people of God. Show me.
 
It is written :

No one who denies the Son has the
Father
; whoever acknowledges the Son
has the Father also.”
New International Version (©1984)

How can some people here possibly think that muslims worship God when they deny the Son?🤷

Such a belief is a direct contradiction to scripture. If you deny the Son, you deny the Father also. You cannot possibly deny any person of the most Holy and Blessed Trinity without denying the others for, as it goes in Hebrew, Adonai Ech’ad (God is One)!

To deny Jesus, is to deny God. Muslims deny Jesus… So how can they worship God if they deny him??:confused:
 
It is written :

No one who denies the Son has the
Father
; whoever acknowledges the Son
has the Father also.”
New International Version (©1984)

How can some people here possibly think that muslims worship God when they deny the Son?🤷
It is a strange phenomemon.
 
Since so many people have been confused by these statements…I would love to see pope Benendict clarify the position. Some in your Church say that it is a misinterpretation. Others say it is not an infallible teaching, does not affect salvation, and is not worth the time spent debating.

I am not in your Church and I do not know if there is a falsehood being proposed…a misinterpretation…or a lame attempt at ecumenism. I just know that the muslims reject Christ…they reject the Holy Trinity…therefore there is no way that they are showing adoration to the one true God.
Off topic questions-
How does the Orthodox Church view Jews [who also reject Christ and the Holy Trinity]? Are they viewed differently due to the Old Covenant?
 
Sorry I have no idea what you are talking about.
Then perhaps this will help you.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad. Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am”.
John 8:56-58****

If you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me"
[John 5:46]

you are dead wrong.
Dearest rinnie. I have not insulted you on this thread. Please try to tone it down a bit.
 
If, therefore, our own God is the true God, and if, as the heretics say, the Only-begotten God is not of the nature of the true God, He is a strange God, and not our God. But the Gospel says, the sheep “will not follow a stranger .” He that says He is created will make Him alien from the nature of the true God. What then will they do, who say that He is created? Do they worship that same created being as God , or do they not? For if they do not worship Him, they follow the Jews in denying the worship of Christ: and if they do worship Him, they are idolaters, for they worship one alien from the true God. But surely it is equally impious not to worship the Son, and to worship the strange God.
St Gregory of Nyssa
 
Then perhaps this will help you.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad. Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am”.
John 8:56-58****

If you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me"
[John 5:46]
****Dearest rinnie. I have not insulted you on this thread. Please try to tone it down a bit.
Mickey I did not mean to insult you. Accept my Apology.

But this scripture is not proof that the Fullness of the Trinity was revealed to us. You have to show me where in the O.T. that this fullness is revealed to us.

You said it was revealed in the O.T. Where?

The fulllness of the Trinity was not revealed to us in the O.T.
 
Irreconcilable differences between Islam and Christianity:

The Trinity (& obviously, the Divinity of Jesus)
The Fatherhood of God; the sonship of God’s creatures. (vs. Master-Slave)
The eternal truths communicated in the Gospels. (They are merely corruptions of God’s Word.)
The quality of Creation itself: Man as the Image and Likeness of God.
The nature of Heaven (carnal vs. spiritual)
Peace as the result of submission to Islamic Law. (As opposed to Peace as the Fruit of the 3rd Person of the Blessed Trinity)
 
Jews are a special case and cannot be equated with muslims. For we adopted the God of Judaism through our decendency through Jesus, a Jew. And from the apostles and early Church who were Jews. Jews are from an era where the trinity had not yet been revealed and only knew the Father. They still worship God because of this, even though they reject the Son for it is their God whom we profess to believe in. Our beliefs are centered around the God of Judaism!

Muslims on the other hand do not come from neither Judaism nor Christianity:shrug: they just sprung up in the New Testament era. They come from an era which the full revelation of God had been revealed and yet rejected Him! Islam claimed to have the Judeo-Christian God as theirs too. But since they came in the New Testament era and rejected the Trinity, they rejected the God of Israel!
 
It is written :

No one who denies the Son has the
Father
; whoever acknowledges the Son
has the Father also.”
New International Version (©1984)

How can some people here possibly think that muslims worship God when they deny the Son?🤷

Such a belief is a direct contradiction to scripture. If you deny the Son, you deny the Father also. You cannot possibly deny any person of the most Holy and Blessed Trinity without denying the others for, as it goes in Hebrew, Adonai Ech’ad (God is One)!

To deny Jesus, is to deny God. Muslims deny Jesus… So how can they worship God if they deny him??:confused:
As I stated if what you are saying is true, And you cannot worship God except in the fullness of the Trinity many Prophets have worshipped a false god.

Moses and Abraham never taught the fullness of the Trinity. It was not revealed to us until Christ revealed it to us.

THe revelation of the Trinity BEGINS when Jesus told us he is Gods Son, Jesus teaches us that God is not only the CREATOR of the universe, but also the Father of the eternally begotton Son who became one with US as the God-Man Jesus Christ.

Now how could the prophets know in the O.T this revelation if it is not given to us until Jesus tells us.

Where in the O.T is it taught that Jesus is Gods Son? Where is it told that God is not ONLY the creator of the universe but also the Father of the eternally begotton Son.

So in order to agree with what you are saying and anyone who prays to the ONE GOD creator of heaven and earth is praying to a false god, you pretty much accuse every single prophet in the O.T.

None of this revelation was given. Which again proves the Point of the Pope!!😃
 
Irreconcilable differences between Islam and Christianity:

The Trinity (& obviously, the Divinity of Jesus)
The Fatherhood of God; the sonship of God’s creatures. (vs. Master-Slave)
The eternal truths communicated in the Gospels. (They are merely corruptions of God’s Word.)
The quality of Creation itself: Man as the Image and Likeness of God.
The nature of Heaven (carnal vs. spiritual)
Peace as the result of submission to Islamic Law. (As opposed to Peace as the Fruit of the 3rd Person of the Blessed Trinity)
And the ONE truth. ONE GOD the Creator of heaven and earth. Where does the differences make the ONE God a false god. That is the question. that cannot be answered. Because it does not.

We are not saying they have many truth. But agree on the ONE, The ONE GOD.
 
As I stated if what you are saying is true, And you cannot worship God except in the fullness of the Trinity many Prophets have worshipped a false god.

Moses and Abraham never taught the fullness of the Trinity. It was not revealed to us until Christ revealed it to us.

THe revelation of the Trinity BEGINS when Jesus told us he is Gods Son, Jesus teaches us that God is not only the CREATOR of the universe, but also the Father of the eternally begotton Son who became one with US as the God-Man Jesus Christ.

Now how could the prophets know in the O.T this revelation if it is not given to us until Jesus tells us.

Where in the O.T is it taught that Jesus is Gods Son? Where is it told that God is not ONLY the creator of the universe but also the Father of the eternally begotton Son.

So in order to agree with what you are saying and anyone who prays to the ONE GOD creator of heaven and earth is praying to a false god, you pretty much accuse every single prophet in the O.T.

None of this revelation was given. Which again proves the Point of the Pope!!😃
The prophets can not be used an argument. Simply because they had not the revelation of the Trinity but only of the Father which was acceptable at the time for that was all that they knew. God only judges you on what you know ,and you know this!

The muslims come from a time where the truth had been revealed and yet rejected it!

These are two different cases entirely
 
You said it was revealed in the O.T. Where?
We have been through this countless times. The Trinity is revealed throughout the OT…beginning in Genesis 1:26. I think it is a rather unusual argument to defend muslim worship on the basis of trying to say that the Trinitarian God was not revealed in the OT. 🤷

I will let St Augustine speak to Christ being revealed.

St Augustine**’s reply to Faustus**
You ask me to show what Moses wrote of Christ. Many passages have already been pointed out. But who could point out all? Besides, when any quotation is made, you are ready perversely to try to give the words another meaning;

St Augustine**’s reply to Faustus**
Well, then, O thou full of all subtilty, when the Lord in the Gospel says, “If ye believed Moses, ye would believe me also, for he wrote of me,” there is no occasion for the great perplexity you pretend to be in, or for the alternative of either pronouncing this verse spurious or calling Jesus a liar. The verse is as genuine as its words are true.

St Augustine****
To your own destruction, and to the detriment of the welfare of mankind, you try to weaken the authority of the gospel, by arguing that it cannot be true that Christ said that Moses wrote of Him;

And now the Holy Spirit:

Cast me not away from thy face; and take not thy holy spirit from me. (Psalm 50:13)

Number 11:26-30

Now there remained in the camp two of the men, of whom one was called Eldad, and the other Medad, upon whom the spirit rested; for they also had been enrolled, but were not gone forth to the tabernacle. And when they prophesied in the camp, there ran a young man, and told Moses, saying: Eldad and Medad prophesy in the camp. Forthwith Josue the son of Nun, the minister of Moses, and chosen out of many, said: My lord Moses forbid them. But he said: Why hast thou emulation for me? O that all the people might prophesy, and that the Lord would give them his spirit! And Moses returned, with the ancients of Israel, into the camp.

Ex 31:1-3
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: Behold, I have called by name Beseleel the son of Uri the son of Hur of the tribe of Juda, And I have filled him with the spirit of God, with wisdom and understanding, and knowledge in all manner of work.

Isaiah 63: 7-10
I will remember the tender mercies of the Lord, the praise of the Lord for all the things that the Lord hath bestowed upon us, and for the multitude of his good things to the house of Israel, which he hath given them according to his kindness, and according to the multitude of his mercies. And he said: Surely they are my people, children that will not deny: so he became their saviour. In all their affliction he was not troubled, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love, and in his mercy he redeemed them, and he carried them and lifted them up all the days of old. But they provoked to wrath, and afflicted the spirit of his Holy One: and he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
 
Irreconcilable differences between Islam and Christianity:

The Trinity (& obviously, the Divinity of Jesus)
The Fatherhood of God; the sonship of God’s creatures. (vs. Master-Slave)
The eternal truths communicated in the Gospels. (They are merely corruptions of God’s Word.)
The quality of Creation itself: Man as the Image and Likeness of God.
The nature of Heaven (carnal vs. spiritual)
Peace as the result of submission to Islamic Law. (As opposed to Peace as the Fruit of the 3rd Person of the Blessed Trinity)
Thank you for pointing out that episode on EWTN. I’m going to have to track down some of his books. I don’t think the two faiths are as irreconcilable as they seemed to present [no amount of lies/errors can seperate the Truth from itself], but they did make me think.
 
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