Church teachings around sexuality 'irrelevant to 75%'

[manofart]

With all this stink and corruption within the Irish Church at the moment and the latest statical analysis and superficial polls concerning sex in its many manifestations and other weird heresies according to the cafeteria catholic whim of some of the locals on the island, I should think we are in need of the Great Saint Patrick himself back from the grave to drive some of the contemporary snakes out of the Emerald Isle.

 

[BlueSapphire]

May I add another perspective from deep within Ireland?

ACP is a dissident group. ( by the way, has Flannery actually gone to a monastery? Would love to know which one…)

If you read their latest rant…

breakingnews.ie/archives/2012/0412/ireland/priests-treated-like-imbeciles-by-vatican-visitation-547238.html

I am by the way a religious historian resident here over ten years and I meet many folk in many walks of life.

They set themselves up as the abuse scandals were breaking… Like some kind of vulture? Just when the Church here was reeling, in they came. If you look at their web site, you will see that they loudly oppose by distorting, anything and everything the Vatican says. They hate what they call “clericalism” and to them the priesthood is simply another job. Never see them in clerical collars…

Now they are claiming they are being persecuted, that the inquisition is back, that they are like Jesus…

They are behind the so-called Roman catholic Women Priest movement, gay rights and so on… For more background, see the Clerical Whispers site for the last week. They have been very loud there.

They seem to be trying to destroy the Church here?

Their buzzword is that the Church “must” " read the signs of the times…"

This is the Church who has fed, clothed, sheltered and honoured them all these years.

Now they speak of “warning” the Vatican. Arrogance and hubris.

If they really feel that they can no longer obey Church teachings, then they should apply for laicisation. The Canon law provision is there. The way they are behaving is appalling.

And no I would not trust any survey they commissioned! Not a chance; but sadly people are swayed by these things. These are clever men who really are opening the gates of hell here.

If they used their skills and energies to heal and help?

Incidentally, I talk with many folk of these things as they know my interest and great concern. Not met anyone who thinks anything but scorn of ACP. But they also think all the Bishops should be sacked.

When you ask, why then are the rural Churches crowded for Mass - and they are - they tell you … we are trusting in the Lord to intervene… in the promises of Medjugorje.,… House of Prayer Achill Island… It breaks the heart, it really does.

My sentiments exactly, except the House of Prayer bit, I’m on the fence with that one!

 

[CaptFun]

Luke 13:23 Someone asked him, “Lord, will only a few people be saved?” He answered them,

24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough.

25 After the master of the house has arisen and locked the door, then will you stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ He will say to you in reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’

26 And you will say, ‘We ate and drank in your company and you taught in our streets.’

27 Then he will say to you, ‘I do not know where (you) are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers!’

 

[Slaney]

My sentiments exactly, except the House of Prayer bit, I’m on the fence with that one!

I’m definitely not on the fence, been down there, done that, made a fool of myself, (money parted my pocket) ashamed to say, false prophets the lot…

 

[BlueSapphire]

I’m definitely not on the fence, been down there, done that, made a fool of myself, (money parted my pocket) ashamed to say, false prophets the lot…

Shhhhhh you’re not the only one!

 

[Nec5]

In any case, from a survey I’ve just conducted in my mind, I have concluded that: in 95% of cases, statistics are simply a tool used for the purposes of misleading people. I have also concluded that 97.2187% of statistics are made up on the spot lol!God bless

Actually, nine out of every seven statistics are inaccurate.

What’s that old line? Lies, damnable lies, and statistics.

 

[pepipop]

I was listening to lifeline, a radio show in Ireland, on Friday which discusses issues in the press related to Ireland, with the general public. The discussion was the ‘catholic’ survey undertaken and there was one priest Fr Gerry Byrne (I think - he seemingly has a twitter page?) acting on behalf of the CC.

Anyhow, he said, when asked if priests should marry, yes, he would like a wife and that the discipline of celibacy should be discussed in the church (i.e. banned). One caller made a comment how Pope B XVI said that homosexuals were evil, the caller did say that the CC, in his interpretation, do not view an inclination to homosexuality as a sin, only the sexual act. The presenter then asked the priest about the CC and homosexuality. - I was astounded, all he had to do was reiterate what the caller had said that it was the CC’s understanding that the homosexual act was a sin, with biblical references why and so on. He went on for 7 minutes of gobbledy gook - it was dire, I hadn’t a clue what he was on about, it was all philosophical mumbo jumbo, but he left the issue at the end insinuating that the church needed to ‘discuss’ the issue more. (My interpretation, anyhow).

One caller, was a traditional catholic and stated that the ACP was a disgrace and if these priests did not agree with the CC, they should leave. Needless, to say the priest came in on that point and said that ‘this caller’ was not showing compassion and that he and others wished to remain as priests, etc…

My wording on this is not good, as i was driving at the time, but this is the gist of a 40 minute discussion on the catholic church. It was dreadful, I wish more traditional catholics had been brought into the discussion, as the ‘priest’ did the CC no favours at all.

 

[Hopemercy]

With all this stink and corruption within the Irish Church at the moment and the latest statical analysis and superficial polls concerning sex in its many manifestations and other weird heresies according to the cafeteria catholic whim of some of the locals on the island, I should think we are in need of the Great Saint Patrick himself back from the grave to drive some of the contemporary snakes out of the Emerald Isle.

This is the direct result of the massive clerical sexual abuse here,in a land where Catholicism is almost a nationality.

The spin the church is issuing is not helping. Feeling is that there is not any true penitence and most are still disgusted at it all.

The actual figure from the Vatican is that 76 % clergy and religious were abusers, and given that they were the only educators etc and had so much power.

Now the religious orders are refusing to pay the child abuse debts they owe and it just goes oin and on.

The Chruch here has talked the talk and not walked the walk and that is to lay the way wide open to all kinds of sins.

It is maybe a lesson to all of us that we must live lives of true holiness.

 

[onthisrock]

I don’t live in Ireland, but I know what the American media does to the Church. I NEVER EVER hear anyone speak of Virtus! Is that just an American thing that is not getting the publicity like the sex crimes did, or is it in Ireland too? Virtus is a class that ALL adults MUST take who come into any contact with children. My husband is in the choir…there is a girl 16 in the choir so he had to take the course which explains the problems of sex abuse, what is inappropriate, and how to detect if something is going wrong to protect the children. I also know that no one…including priests are allowed to ever be alone with a child. If there is a catechism class, it must be taught by two people. We only hear of Catholic abuse because our church is an organized religion. If some pastor of his own church and many other pastors of their own religions are involved in child abuse, we never hear of it, because there is no way to track these people…as rulers of their own religion…they quickly dismantle and no one hears from them again. there are 34,000+ denominations…so your telling me that ONLY Catholic clergy has this problem? NO WAY! Priests don’t become pedophile’s…pedophile’s become priests…as well as scout leaders, coach’s and teachers…anywhere they know that trust will be given to them by youth and parents alike. My Church, and every church I have visited have statements in their bulletins that “if you or anyone you know has been affected by church abuse please call the diocese at…” With that along with the stipulations of never being alone with a child and the class Virtus, the Church has put in some serious barriers to future abuses. Of course these barriers don’t make good news and therefore are NEVER mentioned. to also think that priests are gay, and that is why they do it, or they need to be married…that would fix it…is so ridiculous as if you look at the largest percentages of sexually abused children it is almost always a brother, uncle, cousin or father…and not “the gay relative”, or the relative that just could never find a wife! It makes me sick. Thank you to the people on this thread who know the facts of what is going on in Ireland and are making the truth known!

 

[onthisrock]

I find this very believable. The numbers seem to go along with what I would expect if I were to a take a poll of all family/friends and accomplises on the saem matters.

The church should be a democracy. That way, as time progresses the church could progress with the times. In a relatively short time the church could progress like much of the world where pretty much anything goes. We could elevate the doctrines of many of our modern day heros such as Lady GaGa, Opera Winfrey, Bill Maher and others to Magesteriumm status and all would FINALLY be well with the world.

Either that or we could put our faith in the 2000 year old Church Christ started and promised would be guided by the Holy Spirit and that Satan would not prevail.

The later has become the minority. Does not mean the former has become correct?

AWESOME! I loved what you said! It’s like we’re out to be made to look like we’re out of touch, when really…they are so out of touch! They have to ask their liberal friends what to believe that week .I remember I was listening to the liberal media report on the “occupy” movement. Diane Sayer said “That the movement has spread to hundreds of cities in over a thousand countries”! REALLY? Now…people just letting the liberal media ooze into their heads will take that as a fact! Sad thing is there are less than 200 countries…it will be a while before it hits over a thousand countries for sure! They are so out of their minds! I seriously feel like turning the TV off(except EWTN), the computer, and ONLY read scripture and other religious books. I am so sick of being called "ignorant and intolerant because i won’t believe what they preach. UGGH! Example. I was looking on my county library’s online catalog. I was looking for the Catholic book “New Proofs for the Existence of God” I specifically put “title” Not subject, or similar words…the next book listed…which they have 18 versus 2 of the book I was interested in was called " Delusion of God…it’s a staunch atheist rambling on about how religion is bad…by definition of religion…isn’t being an atheist a religion?? High taxes are us being forced to tithe for their church (the government) sick world huh? God Bless!

 

[Hopemercy]

I don’t live in Ireland, but I know what the American media does to the Church. I NEVER EVER hear anyone speak of Virtus! Is that just an American thing that is not getting the publicity like the sex crimes did, or is it in Ireland too? Virtus is a class that ALL adults MUST take who come into any contact with children. My husband is in the choir…there is a girl 16 in the choir so he had to take the course which explains the problems of sex abuse, what is inappropriate, and how to detect if something is going wrong to protect the children. I also know that no one…including priests are allowed to ever be alone with a child. If there is a catechism class, it must be taught by two people. We only hear of Catholic abuse because our church is an organized religion. If some pastor of his own church and many other pastors of their own religions are involved in child abuse, we never hear of it, because there is no way to track these people…as rulers of their own religion…they quickly dismantle and no one hears from them again. there are 34,000+ denominations…so your telling me that ONLY Catholic clergy has this problem? NO WAY! Priests don’t become pedophile’s…pedophile’s become priests…as well as scout leaders, coach’s and teachers…anywhere they know that trust will be given to them by youth and parents alike. My Church, and every church I have visited have statements in their bulletins that “if you or anyone you know has been affected by church abuse please call the diocese at…” With that along with the stipulations of never being alone with a child and the class Virtus, the Church has put in some serious barriers to future abuses. Of course these barriers don’t make good news and therefore are NEVER mentioned. to also think that priests are gay, and that is why they do it, or they need to be married…that would fix it…is so ridiculous as if you look at the largest percentages of sexually abused children it is almost always a brother, uncle, cousin or father…and not “the gay relative”, or the relative that just could never find a wife! It makes me sick. Thank you to the people on this thread who know the facts of what is going on in Ireland and are making the truth known!

We get this kind of spin here and it is an insult to all who were abused and are still struggling to live with that.

There is a huge difference between clerical abuse and familial incest.

The largest abused group here remains the clerical and religious abuse. Because the Church created and controlled all the schools, so called industrial schools, reformatories and hospitals. And the truth re the abuse in the seminatries is still being hidden.

And many learned to be abusers through being abused by clergy and sisters.

Have you read the Ryan report? And Cloyne, so recent?

The media have no exaggerated here in ireland; they have understated.

yes child abuse is endemic in every denomination and every organisation; but wh attack others? Until we fully accept in humility and truth the blame and the accountability how can we ever really make progress?

We are supposed to be the moral leaders and teachers; to be as Christ in our love.

And that has not been done here. The Orders are refusing to pay compensation and are being blatant about it. One web site states clearly that they intend only to pay 1 % as that is all they say they did. An order that abused so many.

I have visited and talked with many of the orders here in my research and there is no accountability, no shame, no humility. And the same with the clergy. Sisters openly blame clergy and vice versa.

Which is why the Church here and the religious orders are crashing and burning. Average age of sisters is nearly 80 and they all live so richly.

 

[Slaney]

Shhhhhh you’re not the only one!

It’s money well spent if the lesson is learned