Churches locked outside of Mass

[Horton]

People steal things. Maybe your parish is wealthy and can afford to replace everything when it is stolen, ours is not

It is not about the wealth of a parish. Really, are there “wealthy” parishes? I get some parishes may have parishioners with higher incomes, but do those parishes hoard that “wealth”? Or is it possible those parishes give more, do more for the poor, or sustain their community at a higher level?

We have no security cameras, our church building is open daily and our office building is open during business hours. We are a very active parish, always have something going on, actually to the point where groups have to schedule space months in advance. It seems there are always people around. We rarely have theft or vandalism.

 

[PeterT]

We need to be very careful of placing too much importance on the material goods (including precious and costly sacramentals) and the fear of losing them or having them vandalized as the world does and placing far more importance on the spiritual health of our souls and of our churches, including trusting God that He will always provide for us and our local churches if we trust in Him and seek His assistance.

What I see nowadays, including in many comments on this thread, is a profound fear of having to suffer (or having their local church suffer) in the form of theft and vandalism if our our churches and chapels were left open for the faithful as a place of worship outside of Mass.

There’s a balancing act here. A parish needs be cognizant about the reality of where they’re located, so having a church open or chapel 24/7 might not be prudent and in reality very reckless, but I’ve seen too many Catholic churches go to the other extreme where the church is only open for Mass (or other organized prayer services).

Pope Francis is clearly against keeping churches locked for very good reasons.

Yes, it’s very unfortunate and sad when theft or vandalism of any kind does occurs in our church. We as a church community suffer the financial consequences of that lost. But Christ suffered a lot more and many Christian communities throughout the centuries have suffered a more too, including martyrdom of their faithful!

Are we growing soft in our faith? Not even willing to risk suffering any sort of financial loss that keeping the church or chapel open during the day might entail?

Pope Francis is right. Church doors should remain open (even if that increases the chances of suffering theft, vandalism and the resulting financial loses).

 

[Elf01]

Are we growing soft in our faith? Not even willing to risk suffering any sort of financial loss that keeping the church or chapel open during the day might entail?

There may also be a risk to Our Lord.

 

[TC3033]

What does being a parent have to do with this?

Well…we were talking about schools, specifically I mentioned the parish my wife is a member has an elementary school attached to it. If the church is open, then the school is open…ie, anyone can then walk into the school.

This is not like a Protestant church where no one is home and no one has a reason to go inside outside of service hours.

Hmm, interesting play on words. IDK, my church is open during the week for people to pray…but I guess someone always has to get a shot in

The idea that there should be electronically controlled security doors at the entrances to a church is not welcoming at all. That is not who the Catholic Church is.

Then again, as a parent, I would not place my child in the elementary school attached to the church if the church (whereas the school as well) isn’t going to be secured during school hours… My $0.02

 

[Pitcairn17]

No one has brought up the risk to personal safety: people hiding-out in the dark recesses of an unlocked church, with the intention of robbing worshippers. And let’s be frank: the majority of worshippers and drop-in visitors are older women. This is a particular risk in areas especially affected by drug-related crime.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The idea that there should be electronically controlled security doors at the entrances to a church is not welcoming at all. That is not who the Catholic Church is.

I don’t know how you feel, but if I were the only person at Adoration at 3 am in an economically depressed, remote area near Pittsburgh, I’d be very glad for the coded security lock on the door at that hour. And yes, I’m referring to a real church.

And let’s be frank: the majority of worshippers and drop-in visitors are older women. This is a particular risk in areas especially affected by drug-related crime.

Very true, and just about every area in the USA - urban AND rural - maybe with the exception of some very well-patrolled or well-heeled areas - is suffering from drug-related crime right now.

 

[PeterT]

PeterT:

Are we growing soft in our faith? Not even willing to risk suffering any sort of financial loss that keeping the church or chapel open during the day might entail?

There may also be a risk to Our Lord.

Our Lord suffered a lot more on Calvary. Also all tabernacles in Catholic Churches are supposed to be kept locked and the tabernacle (and its stand) securely mounted on the floor. The risk of desecration of the Consecrated Hosts inside a locked tabernacle is extremely minimal.

The Consecrated Hosts are far more at risk of desecration before and after a Mass when often the tabernacle is NOT locked and anyone can go to the tabernacle have easy access to the Consecrated Host.

 

[Elf01]

Our Lord suffered a lot more on Calvary

No reason not to give him as much protection as we can.

 

[PeterT]

No one has brought up the risk to personal safety: people hiding-out in the dark recesses of an unlocked church, with the intention of robbing worshippers. And let’s be frank: the majority of worshippers and drop-in visitors are older women. This is a particular risk in areas especially affected by drug-related crime.

There’s always a risk. Being believers in Christ, we should be willing to risk our lives for Him including while we’re worshiping Him in His church.

 

[PeterT]

PeterT:

Our Lord suffered a lot more on Calvary

No reason not to give him as much protection as we can.

And the Church does with a locked Tabernacle that’s securely mounted on a stand that’s securely mounted on the floor. It’s secure enough that our Pope is fine with and wants the doors to our churches kept unlocked.

 

[SteelArchangel]

Local one here is locked outside of Mass.

Even the bigger cathedral/basilica in the city is locked outside of Mass. I talked with the priest about it there, and he said some people broke in and stole a television out of the parish life room and then some chalices.

I expect thieves to steal, but from the house of God?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There’s always a risk. Being believers in Christ, we should be willing to risk our lives for Him including while we’re worshiping Him in His church.

You seriously think that 70 and 80-year-olds, people with disabilities that are sometimes severe, and unacompanied women should need to risk their lives when going to pray before the Blessed Sacrament after business hours?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I expect thieves to steal, but from the house of God?

I’ve told this story before, but when I was in high school my best friend lived in a bad part of town and one day somebody walked into the church and walked out with the monstrance, in broad daylight, while the priest was around but not in the church. Fortunately Jesus was not in it at the time. They got it back only because the thief walked past my friend’s house with the monstrance under his arm, and her dad saw him go by, called the priest, grabbed his own gun and him and the priest went after the man and the priest was able to talk the man into handing over the monstrance peacefully.

 

[PeterT]

PeterT:

There’s always a risk. Being believers in Christ, we should be willing to risk our lives for Him including while we’re worshiping Him in His church.

You seriously think that 70 and 80-year-olds, people with disabilities that are sometimes severe, and unacompanied women should need to risk their lives when going to pray before the Blessed Sacrament after business hours?

First, when did I mention after business hours?

Second, I think that 70 and 80-year-olds, people with disabilities that are sometimes severe, and unaccompanied women should be able to pray before the Blessed Sacrament as often as they want to, whenever they’re able to.

And they should be the ones deciding if it’s a safe enough environment for them to pray in the Church alone. The decision shouldn’t be made for them by someone else.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

No one is keeping them out. The lock is there to keep the baddies from coming in after them.

People who are regular adorers or who have a need to pray at a certain hour can generally make an arrangement with the priest or whoever is in charge of Adorers. That doesn’t mean the church building has to be left unlocked to the general public so we can have situations like the one posted above with the guy in Erie assaulting a woman in a confessional.

As for people deciding when to go pray, sometimes people assume they are safe because they are in a church, or they are in denial about how bad the neighborhood is, or something unforeseen happens out of the blue. Pastors want to protect their flock as well as the Blessed Sacrament; they also want to avoid situations where the church might be damaged or found liable in a lawsuit. They generally take prudent steps to prevent all these bad situations.

I am leaving this thread now, as I have said the same thing several times and apparently some other people either don’t want to admit that there is an actual risk or have very unrealistic expectations about how churches and church-goers should behave in the real world. Good evening.

 

[PeterT]

No one is keeping them out. The lock is there to keep the baddies from coming in after them.

People who are regular adorers or who have a need to pray at a certain hour can generally make an arrangement with the priest or whoever is in charge of Adorers. That doesn’t mean the church building has to be left unlocked to the general public so we can have situations like the one posted above with the guy in Erie assaulting a woman in a confessional.

As for people deciding when to go pray, sometimes people assume they are safe because they are in a church, or they are in denial about how bad the neighborhood is, or something unforeseen happens out of the blue. Pastors want to protect their flock as well as the Blessed Sacrament; they also want to avoid situations where the church might be damaged or found liable in a lawsuit. They generally take prudent steps to prevent all these bad situations.

I am leaving this thread now, as I have said the same thing several times and apparently some other people either don’t want to admit that there is an actual risk or have very unrealistic expectations about how churches and church-goers should behave in the real world. Good evening.

I agree with the Pope. It appears that you don’t. So I would suggest it might be better for you to discuss your concerns about keeping Church doors unlocked with him and not me.

Have a nice evening.

 

[Horton]

Well…we were talking about schools, specifically I mentioned the parish my wife is a member has an elementary school attached to it. If the church is open, then the school is open…ie, anyone can then walk into the school.

The conversation is about churches being locked. I’m not sure if you know this but not all Catholic parishes have schools and not all schools physically connected to a church. We do have a school and it is in a separate building. The front door to the school is not locked during the school day either.

Hmm, interesting play on words.

Given that Protestant churches do NOT believe in the real presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament kept in a tabernacle, it’s not a play on words to state no one is there, as in Jesus is not present as he is in a Catholic church.

Then again, as a parent, I would not place my child in the elementary school attached to the church if the church (whereas the school as well) isn’t going to be secured during school hours

Again making the assumption that all Catholic parishes have schools and all schools are physically connected to the church building.

 

[Horton]

I don’t know how you feel, but if I were the only person at Adoration at 3 am in an economically depressed, remote area near Pittsburgh, I’d be very glad for the coded security lock on the door at that hour. And yes, I’m referring to a real church

When did I ever say that the church should be open 24/7? Ours is not, once the doors to the church are locked for the night, the Adoration chapel is accessed by a door with a code.

I was addressing the suggestion of another poster who said electronic security doors should be at all entrances to a church at all times.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

There may also be a risk to Our Lord.

We have the Tabernacle secured to the ground, alarmed, security cameras visioned, and locked. No one entering the open church can take the Eucharist. When Adoration is in session, there are people accompanying Our Lord.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

No one has brought up the risk to personal safety: people hiding-out in the dark recesses of an unlocked church, with the intention of robbing worshippers. And let’s be frank: the majority of worshippers and drop-in visitors are older women. This is a particular risk in areas especially affected by drug-related crime.

That little old lady can be just as easily robbed in the church yard, down the street, in her home, in transit. Everywhere is affected by drug related crime, but it is not new, crime has been ongoing for centuries.
There are going to be incidents everywhere. A locked church will not prevent it. We had a car stolen just after one Sunday Mass by a drug affected person, from the church yard, people everywhere. It did not stop this person.

When did I ever say that the church should be open 24/7? Ours is not, once the doors to the church are locked for the night, the Adoration chapel is accessed by a door with a code.

Our churches are closed and locked at night. If people want to come to Adoration, they must do so in specified hours offered. Or they sit by the Tabernacle outside those hours.