I’ve been waiting for someone to mention Onanism/withdrawal method.
-the act of ‘spilling seed to the ground’ seems like an intrinsic evil act to me- Just incase anyone wants a Bible verse, they can read Gen 38:9-10. Just for some background so we know who Onan was: Onan was a son of Judah, who was a son of Jacob, who was a son of Issac, who was a son of Abraham.
I would bet that what you heard prayed was the Angelus! The prayer has been around somewhere around 1330, and is prayed at 6am, noon, and 6pm. I love to pray is this prayer after Daily Mass. The church that my wife and I attend, has Daily Mass every weekday at 5:30pm and Mass gets done at 6. What perfect timing!
That must’ve been it. I knew about the Angelus but didn’t know what it was. Mass started at 11:45 and ended a few minutes after noon, so it would have been perfect timing.
Dear Lance O,I’ve been waiting for someone to mention Onanism/withdrawal method.
Clearly the only reason they were even getting together was to produce offspring, so NFP would definitely not have been justified. If Onan had used NFP under those same circumstances to aviod pregnancy, he still would have been disobedient. Therefore, I cannot see how this story is an indictment of the withdrawal method. At most it is an indictment against family planning without serious reason.
Of course, times were different then because today this would be considered adultery so I’m not really sure what lessons, if any, can be learned from this story that apply today.A few things that have to be remembered with Onan. The Hebrew is shichet for spilled. However, shichet never means spilled or wasted it means to act perversely. So, Onan perversed his seed onto the ground. Verse 10 also provides emphasis on what displeased the Lord by focusing on what Onan did (asher asah). So, what did Onan do? Perversed onto the ground (preventing conception) and GOD STRUCK HIM DEAD.I’ve been waiting for someone to mention Onanism/withdrawal method.
The custiom, in my understanding, was for the next oldest unmarried son to marry the widow and raise up children for the olderr deceased brother (at least one Son). Without regard see my response above to explain why it was the perversity specifically in denything the way the act was designed. In other words, he denied the procreative in a directly sterilized act while still participating in the act.
No, not really much of a Charismatic movement in Wichita. There was one started but I don’t know if it still exists. I do know that some that were in it are now at a protestant ‘charismatic’ Church. Lots of Faith but not enough Reason.
Dear Matthew,
That is ok. We will figure it out at some point soon. At the end of the retreat I am going to be running back to St. Margaret Mary for a parent’s meeting for confirmation class (teacher here not the parent).
Yep, what I said is part of the more. We know he acted perversely, we know what he did (not what he failed to do) displeased God, and he died from it. We also know that three people failed the custom from 38:26 (going from memory). Only one is dead…why?
Cool idea. Somehow I bet it could be condensed pretty well, considering a number of points were recycled several times. If I was much more energetic I’d go through it myself. Maybe we could condense it into one document and call it Humanae Loggerheads.:banghead:P.S. do you think we ought to rename this when we get done and have Catholic Answers publish it as “NFP–cover everything super debate?”
Not present. If there’s no love, no intimacy, just mechanics, or even worse, just lust or worse yet, rape, then we really are going against God’s unitive design even when we retain the procreative aspect of the natural purpose of marital conjugal acts.
Yes, that’s kind of what I was thinking. Perhaps in Onan’s time the dual nature of sex wasn’t looked at the same way it is today.
I didn’t realize he had been unmarried or that he was supposed to have married her. Still it seems kind of strange to force a marriage for the specific reason of producing offspring. I suppose it made sense in that society, but it seems so alien to this one. In this society such a marriage would certainly endanger the preservation of the unitive aspect of the marital act. Was the Levitical law against spilling seeds part of the same law that required marriage to produce offspring?
I believe in Onan’s time, whether they knew it or not, the natural purpose of each conjugal act was the same as it is today. Yet, I don’t look to Onan as a model of obedience to God’s will.
Or NFP, by that reasoning!
NFP is illicit when used to oppose God’s will, which is 1) procreate, and 2) be a responsible parent.
That’s what I meant. I meant my comment to be taken in the context of Onan’s situation. He was supposed to go have a child, and was struck dead by God for using the withdrawal method of preventing one. My belief is that if it was his job, ordained by God, to have a child, then he would have risked being struck dead using any form of ABC or NFP.
Onan was struck dead for his evil deed! Not for not having a child!