Climate Change Debate: Pope VS Trump Supporters?

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TeenCatholicGuy

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We as Catholics need to get this debate over with.

What do we believe about Climate Change?

The Pope and the Vatican, as well as many Priests, Deacons and Bishops throughout the world have called Catholics to take a stand against Climate Change. It is clear that they believe it is 100% Real, and needs to be fought.

Sources: washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/06/01/vatican-leaders-dismayed-by-reports-that-united-states-will-leave-paris-climate-accord/?utm_term=.7486d4229a23

mediaite.com/trump/slap-in-the-face-vatican-slams-trumps-decision-to-pull-out-of-paris-climate-accord/

While on the other end of the coin, many Christians and Catholics who voted for Donald Trump, can be safely assumed to believe some variant of “Climate change is fake, a hoax” etc. Some people may have done it purely on a pro-life standpoint, but what is more important?

I have these questions for the Catholic Community:
  1. Is Climate Change Real?
  2. Who do we trust more, the Leader of the Catholic Church or Donald Trump who attacked the Pope several times during the 2016 Campaign?
  3. How should we fight Climate Change?
  4. What is more important: Climate Change or Pro-Life issues?

    -Sidenote on 4)-
    It is clear that electing Republicans have done little to actually combat Abortion, as
    they have appointed 12 of the last 16 Supreme Court Justices and Under Obama,
    Abortion rates fell every year.
Discuss below?
 
The climate has been changing ever since God created the Earth; human activity cannot cause changes in the climate and cannot fix them. The Pope and President Trump are not climate scientists, but are certainly allowed to have their own (if different) opinions on the subject; neither is right or wrong. President Obama was the MOST pro-abortion president in the history of the United States. The falling abortion rate during his administration was due to the States passing stricter laws, and it wasn’t easy, for every law passed, four more were shot down by the courts. Prayer and fasting from the 40 Days for Life campaign people is also very effective. Catholics cannot do anything about changes in the patterns of the Earth’s climate, but we can do something to promote pro-life issues.
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
We as Catholics need to get this debate over with.

What do we believe about Climate Change?

The Pope and the Vatican, as well as many Priests, Deacons and Bishops throughout the world have called Catholics to take a stand against Climate Change. It is clear that they believe it is 100% Real, and needs to be fought.

Sources: washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/06/01/vatican-leaders-dismayed-by-reports-that-united-states-will-leave-paris-climate-accord/?utm_term=.7486d4229a23

mediaite.com/trump/slap-in-the-face-vatican-slams-trumps-decision-to-pull-out-of-paris-climate-accord/

While on the other end of the coin, many Christians and Catholics who voted for Donald Trump, can be safely assumed to believe some variant of “Climate change is fake, a hoax” etc. Some people may have done it purely on a pro-life standpoint, but what is more important?

I have these questions for the Catholic Community:
  1. Is Climate Change Real?
  2. Who do we trust more, the Leader of the Catholic Church or Donald Trump who attacked the Pope several times during the 2016 Campaign?
  3. How should we fight Climate Change?
  4. What is more important: Climate Change or Pro-Life issues?

    -Sidenote on 4)-
    It is clear that electing Republicans have done little to actually combat Abortion, as
    they have appointed 12 of the last 16 Supreme Court Justices and Under Obama,
    Abortion rates fell every year.
Discuss below?
Click to expand...
You are making absurd assumptions here. This isn’t a matter of either/or. It’s also far more nuanced that what you claim.

I believe Pope Francis about climate change. I also believe Trump is right to get us out of deals like the Paris accord.

You link two sites regarding what you believe to be true. The WP is as anti Trump and any news agency out there and is responsible for their share of fake news. The other is not a Vatican news source so it is questionable in its reliability.

Climate change is happening, its a natural process the earth goes through. The US has already take large steps in controlling pollution and emissions. The Paris accord was about money, the US’s money. It wanted the US to fund billions of dollars for other countries to START lowering pollution and emissions in future years. It was a bad deal for Americans. So bad Obama didn’t take it to Congress to be ratified as a treaty, he knew it wouldn’t fly with law makers.

Trump pulling the US out of the Paris accord does mean he isn’t for positive environmental change.
-Sidenote on 4)-
It is clear that electing Republicans have done little to actually combat Abortion, as
they have appointed 12 of the last 16 Supreme Court Justices and Under Obama,
Abortion rates fell every year.
Click to expand...
Can you provide a link with the statistics on this, from a reliable source, not a leftist liberal site? The part stating abortion rates fell under Obama. Obama was 100% pro-abortion, he even made the statement he would be fine with it if one of his daughters became pregnant and had an abortion. He said something to the effect he wouldn’t want his daughter to suffer the consequences of a stupid mistake.

And what does the pro-life issue have to do with climate change. I am 100% pro-life, from conception to natural death, I voted proudly for Trump, and I care about the environment. However I’m against Al Gore and his carbon credits with which he earned millions with no return for the consumer.
 
I would have voted for Trump if I got to vote. I assent that the climate does, in fact, change. I believe that human activity may be a bigger factor than some are willing to admit. I don’t think the US government should be allowed to get as involved as it wants at the federal level.
 
Catholic1954 said:
The climate has been changing ever since God created the Earth; human activity cannot cause changes in the climate and cannot fix them. The Pope and President Trump are not climate scientists, but are certainly allowed to have their own (if different) opinions on the subject; neither is right or wrong. President Obama was the MOST pro-abortion president in the history of the United States. The falling abortion rate during his administration was due to the States passing stricter laws, and it wasn’t easy, for every law passed, four more were shot down by the courts. Prayer and fasting from the 40 Days for Life campaign people is also very effective. Catholics cannot do anything about changes in the patterns of the Earth’s climate, but we can do something to promote pro-life issues.
Click to expand...
What about free will? God gave us the power to make our own decisions. It is clear that the Earth has a natural Cycle, and that we are accelerating that cycle through human activities.
I quote:

"So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it’ and have dominion over the fish of the see and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth” -Genesis 1:27-28.

He gave humans complete dominion over the earth. Disagreeing with that is disagreeing with the Bible.

If we have complete dominion over the earth, we have the ability to take his creation and turn it into something else, something bad. We have the ability to create problems that threaten the whole earth. We therefore, have the ability to fix them.

Trump and Pope Francis aren’t Climate Scientists, but have access to hundreds of them. Pope Francis decreed that we should fight Climate Change, take care of our planet. Can you even call yourself Catholic if you disobey the Holy Father?

If Obama was the most pro-abortion President, why did Abortion rates fall under his Administration?
If you look at the numbers, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_statistics_in_the_United_States
Abortion rates were extremely high under the Reagan, H. W. Bush, and Clinton Administrations.
In fact, Abortion rates started to fall starting in 1998*, under the Clinton Administration. Not a Republican one.
They barely fell under W. Bush’s administration and fell much more significantly under the Obama Admin.

*EDIT: Ever since 1998, abortion rates have been falling.
 
Thom18 said:
I would have voted for Trump if I got to vote. I assent that the climate does, in fact, change. I believe that human activity may be a bigger factor than some are willing to admit. I don’t think the US government should be allowed to get as involved as it wants at the federal level.
Click to expand...
The Federal Gov. is responsible for the safety and health of it’s citizens.

Is it not in the People’s best interest if Fossil Fuels are phased out, whether it helps the Environment or not?

Breathing in these admissions in excess is dangerous.
scientificamerican.com/article/graphic-science-health-care-burden-of-fossil-fuels/

Even if we look at a Jobs standpoint, There are more Solar Jobs then any fossil fuel industry. cleantechnica.com/2017/02/01/us-clean-energy-jobs-surpass-fossil-fuel-jobs-5-1/

The Pope calls us all to fight Climate Change. If we are Catholic, who are we to disobey the Pope? news.va/en/results?q=Climate+Change
 
Horton said:
You are making absurd assumptions here. This isn’t a matter of either/or. It’s also far more nuanced that what you claim.

I believe Pope Francis about climate change. I also believe Trump is right to get us out of deals like the Paris accord.

You link two sites regarding what you believe to be true. The WP is as anti Trump and any news agency out there and is responsible for their share of fake news. The other is not a Vatican news source so it is questionable in its reliability.

Climate change is happening, its a natural process the earth goes through. The US has already take large steps in controlling pollution and emissions. The Paris accord was about money, the US’s money. It wanted the US to fund billions of dollars for other countries to START lowering pollution and emissions in future years. It was a bad deal for Americans. So bad Obama didn’t take it to Congress to be ratified as a treaty, he knew it wouldn’t fly with law makers.

Trump pulling the US out of the Paris accord does mean he isn’t for positive environmental change.

Can you provide a link with the statistics on this, from a reliable source, not a leftist liberal site? The part stating abortion rates fell under Obama. Obama was 100% pro-abortion, he even made the statement he would be fine with it if one of his daughters became pregnant and had an abortion. He said something to the effect he wouldn’t want his daughter to suffer the consequences of a stupid mistake.

And what does the pro-life issue have to do with climate change. I am 100% pro-life, from conception to natural death, I voted proudly for Trump, and I care about the environment. However I’m against Al Gore and his carbon credits with which he earned millions with no return for the consumer.
Click to expand...
How can you believe both? Both issues aren’t equally as threatening to the world and society, so which is more important?

Look here then: news.va/en/results?q=Climate+Change

I argue against that view in an earlier post.

The world isn’t interested in renegotiating a Non-binding agreement that already had lots of compromises. He could’ve left it as it is, and done 0 for the environment, and he would get in 0 Legal trouble.

Well, This was written by a Priest, on a Catholic news site…
uscatholic.org/blog/201603/can-catholic-vote-democrat-moral-considerations-30587
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
We as Catholics need to get this debate over with.

What do we believe about Climate Change?

The Pope and the Vatican, as well as many Priests, Deacons and Bishops throughout the world have called Catholics to take a stand against Climate Change. It is clear that they believe it is 100% Real, and needs to be fought.

Sources: washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/06/01/vatican-leaders-dismayed-by-reports-that-united-states-will-leave-paris-climate-accord/?utm_term=.7486d4229a23

mediaite.com/trump/slap-in-the-face-vatican-slams-trumps-decision-to-pull-out-of-paris-climate-accord/

While on the other end of the coin, many Christians and Catholics who voted for Donald Trump, can be safely assumed to believe some variant of “Climate change is fake, a hoax” etc. Some people may have done it purely on a pro-life standpoint, but what is more important?

I have these questions for the Catholic Community:
  1. Is Climate Change Real?
  2. Who do we trust more, the Leader of the Catholic Church or Donald Trump who attacked the Pope several times during the 2016 Campaign?
  3. How should we fight Climate Change?
  4. What is more important: Climate Change or Pro-Life issues?

    -Sidenote on 4)-
    It is clear that electing Republicans have done little to actually combat Abortion, as
    they have appointed 12 of the last 16 Supreme Court Justices and Under Obama,
    Abortion rates fell every year.
Discuss below?
Click to expand...
TeenCatholicGuy said:
What about free will? God gave us the power to make our own decisions. It is clear that the Earth has a natural Cycle, and that we are accelerating that cycle through human activities.
I quote:

"So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it’ and have dominion over the fish of the see and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth” -Genesis 1:27-28.

He gave humans complete dominion over the earth. Disagreeing with that is disagreeing with the Bible.

If we have complete dominion over the earth, we have the ability to take his creation and turn it into something else, something bad. We have the ability to create problems that threaten the whole earth. We therefore, have the ability to fix them.

Trump and Pope Francis aren’t Climate Scientists, but have access to hundreds of them. Pope Francis decreed that we should fight Climate Change, take care of our planet. Can you even call yourself Catholic if you disobey the Holy Father?

If Obama was the most pro-abortion President, why did Abortion rates fall under his Administration?
If you look at the numbers, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_statistics_in_the_United_States
Abortion rates were extremely high under the Reagan, H. W. Bush, and Clinton Administrations.
In fact, Abortion rates started to fall starting in 1998, under the Clinton Administration. Not a Republican one.
They barely fell under W. Bush’s administration and fell much more significantly under the Obama Admin.
Click to expand...
TeenCatholicGuy said:
The Federal Gov. is responsible for the safety and health of it’s citizens.

Is it not in the People’s best interest if Fossil Fuels are phased out, whether it helps the Environment or not?

Breathing in these admissions in excess is dangerous.
scientificamerican.com/article/graphic-science-health-care-burden-of-fossil-fuels/

Even if we look at a Jobs standpoint, There are more Solar Jobs then any fossil fuel industry. cleantechnica.com/2017/02/01/us-clean-energy-jobs-surpass-fossil-fuel-jobs-5-1/

The Pope calls us all to fight Climate Change. If we are Catholic, who are we to disobey the Pope? news.va/en/results?q=Climate+Change
Click to expand...
I will blunt. There is no way this poster 15 yo.
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
We as Catholics need to get this debate over with.

What do we believe about Climate Change?

The Pope and the Vatican, as well as many Priests, Deacons and Bishops throughout the world have called Catholics to take a stand against Climate Change. It is clear that they believe it is 100% Real, and needs to be fought.

Sources: washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/06/01/vatican-leaders-dismayed-by-reports-that-united-states-will-leave-paris-climate-accord/?utm_term=.7486d4229a23

mediaite.com/trump/slap-in-the-face-vatican-slams-trumps-decision-to-pull-out-of-paris-climate-accord/

While on the other end of the coin, many Christians and Catholics who voted for Donald Trump, can be safely assumed to believe some variant of “Climate change is fake, a hoax” etc. Some people may have done it purely on a pro-life standpoint, but what is more important?

I have these questions for the Catholic Community:
  1. Is Climate Change Real?
  2. Who do we trust more, the Leader of the Catholic Church or Donald Trump who attacked the Pope several times during the 2016 Campaign?
  3. How should we fight Climate Change?
  4. What is more important: Climate Change or Pro-Life issues?

    -Sidenote on 4)-
    It is clear that electing Republicans have done little to actually combat Abortion, as
    they have appointed 12 of the last 16 Supreme Court Justices and Under Obama,
    Abortion rates fell every year.
Discuss below?
Click to expand...
  1. Not man made
  2. On climate issues, national defense, immigration issues? Trump
  3. We can’t alter the climate if we wanted to.
  4. We can’t alter the climate if we wanted to, so the question is not really valid. We can change our attitude about respecting life in our culture.
 
robertmidwest said:
  1. Not man made
  2. On climate issues, national defense, immigration issues? Trump
  3. We can’t alter the climate if we wanted to.
  4. We can’t alter the climate if we wanted to, so the question is not really valid. We can change our attitude about respecting life in our culture.
Click to expand...
See all of my previous posts on this thread, which you’ve already quoted.

I’ve already debunked the “we can’t alter the climate” myth with Genesis 1:27-28.

The full version of that is Genesis 1:27-31.
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
****How can you believe both? Both issues aren’t equally as threatening to the world and society, so which is more important?
Look here then: news.va/en/results?q=Climate+Change

I argue against that view in an earlier post.

The world isn’t interested in renegotiating a Non-binding agreement that already had lots of compromises. He could’ve left it as it is, and done 0 for the environment, and he would get in 0 Legal trouble.

Well, This was written by a Priest, on a Catholic news site…
uscatholic.org/blog/201603/can-catholic-vote-democrat-moral-considerations-30587
Click to expand...
The first bolded statement - I am an adult with critical thinking skills and I don’t think in black and white. I can believe both are right because they both are. Trump pulling out of the Paris accord does not mean he is against protecting the environment.

Because it would have cost the US at least two billion dollars. The US has more important expenses than paying for a non-binding agreement with a lot of compromise.

It’s really odd how you sound so much like the author of the second article, almost word for word. Wait…it was word for word. Don’t they teach you in school you are supposed to cite your sources and quotes? They don’t teach you what plagiarism is?
 
One thing to take into account with falling abortion rates is that Planned Parenthood, from what I’ve read, doesn’t consider chemical abortions as abortions. So a rise in those can falsely skew the true abortion rate.
 
Horton said:
The first bolded statement - I am an adult with critical thinking skills and I don’t think in black and white. I can believe both are right because they both are. Trump pulling out of the Paris accord does not mean he is against protecting the environment.

Because it would have cost the US at least two billion dollars. The US has more important expenses than paying for a non-binding agreement with a lot of compromise.

It’s really odd how you sound so much like the author of the second article, almost word for word. Wait…it was word for word. Don’t they teach you in school you are supposed to cite your sources and quotes? They don’t teach you what plagiarism is?
Click to expand...
Then what is Trump’s plan to help protect the planet from Climate Change? Oh, wait…

The proof that it would cost the US that, and that 2 billion would do 0 to fight Climate Change?

I used my own words, I didn’t intend to sound like the 2nd article.
 
mVitus said:
One thing to take into account with falling abortion rates is that Planned Parenthood, from what I’ve read, doesn’t consider chemical abortions as abortions. So a rise in those can falsely skew the true abortion rate.
Click to expand...
It is possible, but even so, Abortion rates fall when $ is invested in Social Security.
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
The Federal Gov. is responsible for the safety and health of it’s citizens.

Is it not in the People’s best interest if Fossil Fuels are phased out, whether it helps the Environment or not?

Breathing in these admissions in excess is dangerous.
scientificamerican.com/article/graphic-science-health-care-burden-of-fossil-fuels/

Even if we look at a Jobs standpoint, There are more Solar Jobs then any fossil fuel industry. cleantechnica.com/2017/02/01/us-clean-energy-jobs-surpass-fossil-fuel-jobs-5-1/

The Pope calls us all to fight Climate Change. If we are Catholic, who are we to disobey the Pope? news.va/en/results?q=Climate+Change
Click to expand...
I’m sorry to say that the federal government is far from competent to do the job. Just look at our education system. The feds insist that we keep funneling money into it, assuring us that more money will raise test scores, but we’re still falling behind. We have been for decades. Besides, I would say that the Hollywood left just proved exactly why we don’t need the federal government to get involved. Trump pulls out of the Paris agreement, and celebrities start promising money (or start telling their fans to try fulfilling their desires at the state level) to fund the green effort.

Ultimately, the state is far more competent to help fight climate change than the federal government. Even more effective would be to start organizing at the community level. Not wanting the federal government to throw our money away (when it has proven to be less than responsible and economical with) doesn’t mean we’re disagreeing with Pope Francis. We just don’t want the federal government to have more power when, again, it is unsuccessful and bloated.

Jobs aren’t the entire issue, either. Solar and wind combined simply can’t fulfill America’s energy needs.
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
What about free will? God gave us the power to make our own decisions. It is clear that the Earth has a natural Cycle, and that we are accelerating that cycle through human activities.
I quote:

"So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it’ and have dominion over the fish of the see and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth” -Genesis 1:27-28.

He gave humans complete dominion over the earth. Disagreeing with that is disagreeing with the Bible.

If we have complete dominion over the earth, we have the ability to take his creation and turn it into something else, something bad. We have the ability to create problems that threaten the whole earth. We therefore, have the ability to fix them.

Trump and Pope Francis aren’t Climate Scientists, but have access to hundreds of them. Pope Francis decreed that we should fight Climate Change, take care of our planet. Can you even call yourself Catholic if you disobey the Holy Father?

If Obama was the most pro-abortion President, why did Abortion rates fall under his Administration?
If you look at the numbers, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_statistics_in_the_United_States
Abortion rates were extremely high under the Reagan, H. W. Bush, and Clinton Administrations.
In fact, Abortion rates started to fall starting in 1998*, under the Clinton Administration. Not a Republican one.
They barely fell under W. Bush’s administration and fell much more significantly under the Obama Admin.

*EDIT: Ever since 1998, abortion rates have been falling.
Click to expand...
I believe in natural climate change as well as man-made climate change. However, according to my understanding, Catholics can disagree with the Pope on issues that do not involve morals and religion, including climate change. At the same time, of course, one should not completely ignore what Pope Francis says and his rationale involving climate change, which involves our dominion and stewardship of G-d’s creation. Still, he is not speaking as an expert on the issue nor is he speaking ex cathedra, and thus a Catholic in good standing can respectfully disagree.
 
Thom18 said:
I’m sorry to say that the federal government is far from competent to do the job. Just look at our education system. The feds insist that we keep funneling money into it, assuring us that more money will raise test scores, but we’re still falling behind. We have been for decades. Besides, I would say that the Hollywood left just proved exactly why we don’t need the federal government to get involved. Trump pulls out of the Paris agreement, and celebrities start promising money (or start telling their fans to try fulfilling their desires at the state level) to fund the green effort.

Ultimately, the state is far more competent to help fight climate change than the federal government. Even more effective would be to start organizing at the community level. Not wanting the federal government to throw our money away (when it has proven to be less than responsible and economical with) doesn’t mean we’re disagreeing with Pope Francis. We just don’t want the federal government to have more power when, again, it is unsuccessful and bloated.

Jobs aren’t the entire issue, either. Solar and wind combined simply can’t fulfill America’s energy needs.
Click to expand...
The Government under the right management can do almost anything. Donald Trump is what makes the current Administration SO INCOMPETENT.

If it were under someone who actually meant what they said, we’d be set.

I disagree. I point to what’s happening in Ontario, Canada. The Province made numerous mistakes for “clean energy”, which has caused rates to soar in most areas of the provinces.

Jobs are still part of it, and a driving factor. Remember how Trump “cares about” “coal and oil” jobs?
Solar and Wind alone in their current state won’t, but if the Feds were to invest, to drive innovation it would get cheaper and produce more. There are over 5 new industries from Clean Energy, and supporting them would be a good option.
 
Horton said:
The first bolded statement - I am an adult with critical thinking skills and I don’t think in black and white. I can believe both are right because they both are. Trump pulling out of the Paris accord does not mean he is against protecting the environment.

Because it would have cost the US at least two billion dollars. The US has more important expenses than paying for a non-binding agreement with a lot of compromise.

It’s really odd how you sound so much like the author of the second article, almost word for word. Wait…it was word for word. Don’t they teach you in school you are supposed to cite your sources and quotes? They don’t teach you what plagiarism is?
Click to expand...
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